Practice??

[Don Guillette]

I really don't know where to start with this topic. Two young couples from FL purchased a boat together and they were interested in a practice routine for cruisers. Practice is a good idea if you want to become proficient at anything. Sounds like a simple question to answer but it isn't. Some sports are intellectual and physical - sailing is all intellectual.

Years ago, when I lived in So Ca, two groups of gals approached me. One was from Shoreline YC in Long Beach and wanted to compete in the Newport to Ensenada race. The other was a group of gals that were competing in Newport Beach Beer Can races and were sick of guys mocking them because they came in last.

Both group of gals started off by asking if I had any advise -- a Marine rifle team instructor words at Twenty Nine Palms came to mind. "The match ( insert race) is won on the practice range before the match (insert race) even starts". Actually that applies to any endeavor you're attempting to accomplish. The practice routine depends on the sailors level of expertise - just like with any sport. Both gal teams knew how to sail the boats but they lacked organization and most importantly a leader. With the Newport Beach group it turned out the present leader wasn't the boat owner and driver. The first thing I determined was who should do what. Both boats were masthead rigs so the sail trim "shot caller" was the jib trimmer. We then sailed the actual course and endeavored to get the most out of the sails on each keg. I timed each leg - So Ca conditions don't vary much especially in a harbor like Newport Beach. After about 6 session they became pretty good and time was shaved on each leg. After their next race the guys stopped mocking them.

Obviously, I couldn't practice sail the Newport-Ensenada course but it's all downhill so after getting the crew positions organized we worked on that point of sail. They came in 3rd in their division.

So, the practice routine depends on your level of sail trim knowledge. If you don't have a basic understanding of sail trim and what each of the sail trim controls for the main & jib are adjusting you're wasting your time practicing. It would be like watching a golf match and deciding that you wanted to take up the game so you borrowed a driver and went to the range - and got nowhere.

So how did I answer the question from the two cruiser couples in FL? I told them there is no practice routine for cruisers. Instead you're refining your skills. It's not like today I think I'll go sailing and practice the use of the traveler. It's more like you're closehauled and you tweak the controls, assuming you know what controls to tweak and what to look for, to get a more efficiency out of your sails.

Do any of you cruisers or racers want to share your practice routine?


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[Kings Gambit]

I recall reading in one of Conner’s writings about his approach to buoy racing. He’d get his crew out to the course area at least two hr ahead of the start. They would practice on the sail trim, sheet lead positions, helming, tacking in expectation to oscillation of the true wind direction, and “exploring” the course area, no doubt in relation to water movement. I recall his scoffing remarks about skippers arriving less than an hour ahead of the start.

 

[Don Guillette]

I recall reading in one of Conner’s writings about his approach to buoy racing. He’d get his crew out to the course area at least area two hr ahead of the start. They would practice on the sail trim, sheet lead positions, helming, tacking in expectation to oscillation of the true wind direction, and “exploring” the course area, no doubt in relation to water movement. I recall his scoffing remarks about skippers arriving less than an hour ahead of the start.

I think it's in his book SAIL LIKE A CHAMPION, which is my bible. That's where I got the idea about the practice session with the gals.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Do any of you cruisers or racers want to share your practice routine?

I think we need to remember that there is, or should be, no difference in sail trim between racing and cruising.
Either you do it right or not at all.
I had owned a Catalina 22 (1983-87) and a Catalina 25 (1987-98) before I bought this boat in 1998. The C22 and C25 were rigged similarly. This boat had a lot more controls although the concepts were the same.
Because I wanted to get the most out of this new-to-me boat, I did a lot of studying of where the lines went and how they worked. I read all the sail trim books I could lay my hands on. But compared to those other boats, this boat had a tremendously large traveler, and I had never quite understood how or why a traveler worked because the C22 and C25 ones were so short.
Then I came cross this fantastic website and Don's book.
He explains not only how things work, but WHY.
So I went out on SF Bay and practiced, practiced, practiced. Light winds to high winds, in The Bay and out in the ocean.
The second season we had the boat, I went out to "view" a Catalina 34 one-design race on The Bay. I knew a few of the participants because I had joined the local Fleet and attended a social function with them. I hadn't registered for the race, but one of the guys said "Hey, just race along with us, doesn't matter we're a friendly bunch."
So I followed along, watched what they did and learned the course, and then learned how to register for a race so I knew the course beforehand. What a concept!
Then I went out on a weekday when The Bay was less crowded and sailed the race course. Two or three times.
And I kept reading Don's book and began to see that understanding the WHY made the HOW much more easy to understand, and USE. Boat speed and pointing improved.
The next season I joined my first race. Came in last and wrote an article for Mainsheet magazine titled "What it looks like from the back of the pack."
Soon after, an old friend who I'd reconnected with called me and said, "Stu, my buddy and I keep renting sailboats out of Richmond but we can never seem to sail any further west than Alcatraz. Can you show me how to do it?" I said, "Come sail with me on Friday and we see what we can do." His buddy couldn't join us, so Dave showed up and we sailed all over The Bay.
We had such a good time together that we started sailing together every Friday, all year 'round (we both owned our own businesses so we could take Friday afternoons off ).
He was a terrible "driver" but a great trimmer, and younger and stronger than me, too. !
We started entering the C34 one-design summer races and then the winter series where we had enough C34s that we got our own starts in those PHRF winter races that they let us use our own ratings for scoring.
We slowly started improving, moving out of the back of the pack on a regular basis. It took us a few years, but we finally and regularly began to take fist place in our division.
We'd get the racing instructions on Mondays, learn the course, figure out the most likely ones and go out on Fridays, practice by sailing the courses, and then relax into cruiser-mode and anchor out in Clipper Cove, and go race on Saturday, thus mixing cruising and racing.
Don's book also a fantastic chapter on how to learn how to start a race! It is invaluable and I've never seen anything like it anywhere else, and I've read everything.
What we learned is that by practicing and employing the right techniques your boat WILL go faster. And that like almost everything else in life, if you know WHY things work, you can learn HOW to make them work for you.
And we also learned that practicing can be fun because while you're practicing you're out their having FUN sailing. It's one of those cases where practicing is NOT a chore, it's a benefit in more ways than one.
Who could ask for more?

 

[Kings Gambit]

I think it's in his book SAIL LIKE A CHAMPION, which is my bible. That's where I got the idea about the practice session with the gals.

I considered his approach for weekend club racing in Long Beach but some aspects are difficult to apply. In the morning and early afternoon during summer in Long Beach the wind direction is usually south at 10 kt or less. Races start at noon or 1300. By then, especially by 1300, the wind veers southwest eventually becoming fully southwest with increasing wind speed. By the end of a 3-hr race starting at noon on a south wind, the boats will be racing to a southwest to west wind blowing 15 kt. Not that wind changes are not part of the racing experience, but I’ve had to question “tuning up” beginning 2 hr before a start on a light south wind when the race itself, maybe even the start, will likely happen on a stronger southwest wind. Some actions would not be affected, such as trimming to the wind; but, the oscillations (which he writes about) will change, and the course to be raced will be laid out differently than on a south wind.

 

[jssailem]

To gain profeciency, I find, you need to first learn the controls for your boat.

• How raise and lower sails
• How to set the sails - Luff, leach, foot to get performace
• How to trim the sails, move the draft of the sail or reef the sail based on a steady or changing wind condition.

All of these are basic sail control considerations for your boat. An understanding of these functions begins at the dock. It needs to be both Captain and crew engaged. The more you can work together with the same knowledge base the more profecient you will be when sailing.

Of equal importance is the understanding of wind.

• How it occurs
• What influences the wind
• How it changes in the area you will be sailing

This knowledge will guide you in the application of sail selection and trim.

What trim considerations you utilize be it cruising or racing will be influenced by the level of effort you input and the level of ex[ectation you have in the performance of your boat.

• When racing I expect more of my boat/sails/crew.
• We look for every advantage technical/tactical/conditions/boat functions.
• When cruising the expectations are less intense
• I look for safety/conditions/relaxation/to meet the tidal considerations.

While the tools are the same, how they are used/applied to the boat expereince are different.

This thinking evolves as experience with the boat influences change.

 

[Don Guillette]

The real question here is how do we help the two couples in FL that started the topic. It's hard to evaluate peoples skill in a 15 minute phone conversation but I Think the have basic skills. In other words, they can leave the dock and raise the main and roll out the jib. Beyond that I don't know BUT what I do know is that they comprise about 50% of the sailing public worldwide. I'd like to get that group to be able to improve their sail trim skills.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Optimizing the cruising routine could depend on which coast of FL they will cruise. The central-southwest coast: Clearwater, Tampa Bay, Sarasota Bay, Charlotte Harbor, offers different options than most of the east; I'd start by asking them to what destinations do they wish to cruise. From where would they be departing? Even though most sailing skills are not venue dependent, getting them out there to practice could be.

 

[Don Guillette]

Optimizing the cruising routine could depend on which coast of FL they will cruise. The central-southwest coast: Clearwater, Tampa Bay, Sarasota Bay, Charlotte Harbor, offers different options than most of the east; I'd start by asking them to what destinations do they wish to cruise. From where would they be departing? Even though most sailing skills are not venue dependent, getting them out there to practice could be.

It's Fort Myers/Naples area.

 

[Don Guillette]

That's the question - practice what?

I think we need to remember that there is, or should be, no difference in sail trim between racing and cruising.
Either you do it right or not at all.



Stu: I've told this story many times but who remember but me. At least I still can - now anyway!! My wife and I were sitting in a bar on Shelter Island during the America Cup races in San Diego. The American team members were not very friendly but the Aussies sure were. I loved talking to them and sharing their beer, a round of which I also bought them. They were the biggest giant people I've ever seen!! A fellow came in alone and sat next to us. When I was on the way to the head one of the Aussie's asked me if I knew who that was talking to me wife. He told me it was Dennis Conner - I almost wet my pants!!

During the conversation he told me "there is no difference between racing and cruising trim - there's only a right way and wrong way to trim sails". That sentence is also in his book.

Years ago I used to sail with the C30National team against local fleets. The local fleets would give us the crappiest boats they could find. Anyway the skipper was Max Munger, who I think you know. He was to the C30 what you are to your fleet. The first time I sailed with him we were on the course early and no one else was there. Not knowing when to shut up I told Max no one else is here but us because they know the course and conditions. He told me "yes, but do they know it today". We never came in less than second. He taught me about the start line. At every start I said to myself (because I learned to keep my mouth shut) we're going to be late and not going to make it but each time we were first across. He is one of the best.

NOTE: The America Cup in San Diego was when CUP boats looked like sailboats!!

 

[Castle Parker]

However, as a mentor in several capacities, there are no 'Stupid Questions.' If ya don't know, ask, or figure out how to ask. Give Newbies a break, they gotta learn somewhere! Some of us have a lifetime of learning.

 

[tfox2069]

I think if we break this down simply its really about knowing how to trim sails to be the most efficient at a given wind speed, wind angle, sea state, and risk factors (e.g. short handed, night sailing, gusting winds, etc). This would be universal - it wouldn't matter if you are in Florida, San Francisco Bay, or the Strait of Juan de Fuca. And you can "practice" anytime there is wind and room to sail - changing the angle of the wind is as simple as pointing the boat in the right direction to achieve the desired wind angle.

So if the cruising couple wants to "practice", then they pick what set of conditions they want to focus on (or that they happen to be in that day), and work on getting the most speed out of the boat for that set of conditions. And documenting it in some way (our memories are very poor logbooks - at least mine is). They could work toward a set of polars as a goal, and if they don't have one, build their own - noting progress as they beat their previous speed for a given set of conditions they'd previously "practiced". I would guess that after awhile, being deliberate about their trim procedures in, say, 10 knots of steady breeze on a beam reach in sea state 0-3 in open water in daylight, and reviewing things like Don's book to check their work, they'd be in a pretty good place. They''ll even discover and document peculiarities of their boat - like how it might sail closer to the wind better on one tack than another for some strange reason, and how much closer for a given speed on both tacks.

The "risk" portion of the equation is the acceptance of some loss of speed to sail trim in order to account for certain factors - putting in a reef at dusk, for example, so you don't have to do it in the dark if needed - especially if singlehanding. Understanding what those conditions are - building Standard Operating Procedures for your cruising boat - are an important part of this I would think. Where will you accept a loss of efficiency for risk mitigation?

I am decidedly NOT a racer, but I do believe racing is different than cruising when it comes to sail trimming in two important respects - speed and comfort. If you're cruising you can take your time in achieving the optimal trim in your sails to no substantively ill effect, whereas in racing you need it done as quickly as possible so as to minimize any loss of speed resulting from inefficiency. With respect to comfort, I might accept "inefficient" sail trim to keep the boat from heeling to an uncomfortable degree - especially in gusts - if I have someone on board who might not appreciate that. I'm not trying to necessarily sail as fast as I can, and may luff up a little or reef deeper than I otherwise might to keep things flatter for them - or to keep the stresses low on the boat.

Anyway, just trying to advance the thinking here. Happy to field counter arguments.

 

[Kings Gambit]

If they want to learn cruising and sailing to, say, Sanibel Island, they should “practice” sailing to destination. Usually in summer this means leaving Ft Myers sailing SW on a SE wind going, NE on a SE wind returning. Practice trim for the corresponding points of sail, probably near beam reaches. That’s convenient. Practice gybing and tacking; understand them. Lastly, practice bringing the boat head to wind to stop it in anticipation of dropping an anchor. Spend a couple of weeks on those excercises.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Lastly, practice bringing the boat head to wind to stop it in anticipation of dropping an anchor.

Drop or furl the headsail near end of “approach”; head to wind to stop using mainsail only. As the boat falls off after stopping gybe over to return (inbound) COG.

 

[Don Guillette]

Ship Mates: Thank you all for the recommendations. During the phone call I told the 2 couples I didn't have the answer but I knew where to get it - the Sail Trim Forum!! I told them to monitor the forum, which they have. I thank you for your suggestion BUT more importantly the two couples also thank you.

I told them that there is no other sail trim instruction forum on the web where you will consistently give the straight scoop. If a lister provides incorrect info he/she will instantly be corrected - I've been straightened out a few times!!

I'm not a racer. I really don't like racing that much. Every time I sailed my boat, mostly single handed, I always tried to get the best out of the sails in every wind condition and point of sail. Every time I sailed it was a practice - even with guests I kept one eye on them and one on the sails even though my wife wanted me to give 100% attention to the guests - I couldn't.

It actually started when we pulled out of our Diamond Bar, Ca home to drive to Shoreline Marina. My wife's words were "don't bore these people with your sail trim crap". Obviously she's not into sail trim. I never mentioned sail trim to guests unless they asked me. On a couple of sails the gal would take the wheel and wouldn't give it back!!

Thanks again for making the sail trim forum the best information source on the internet - it ain't me, it's you folks.

 

[mermike]

I would suggest they take the boat out, establish a course, and then adjust one control while another crew reads the corresponding section from Don's book (or cheat sheet) out loud. Wait, and observe the change in boat motion and speed. Then adjust it the other way. Wait. Observe. (Mainsheet in. Mainsheet out. Observe.) Then choose the next control. Repeat.

 

[Will Gilmore]

they were interested in a practice routine for cruisers. Practice is a good idea if you want to become proficient at anything. Sounds like a simple question to answer but it isn't.

Is sail trim what they meant? Maybe a cruising foursome would also be interested in practicing other aspects of safe seamanship.

Lastly, practice bringing the boat head to wind to stop it in anticipation of dropping an anchor. Spend a couple of weeks on those excercises.

That's just the beginning. Practice landing at various guest docks and mooring configurations, rafting, putting the vessel in irons, MOB maneuvers, efficient and effective knots for emergency applications, wave surfing, safe jibing, boarding from the water, etc.

"Where do we keep the boat hook and throw line?"

Both members of a cruising couple should know how to use the radio, bring the boat to a stop, sail a tight figure '8' while keeping their eye on the MOB, anchor, dock, start the engine and drop or furl the sails. Cruising may not usually have the pace of racing, but there are many aspects to cruising that make it as complicated, if not more so, than racing.

Oh, I forgot DR navigation and sight taking, if you're into that old style stuff and might find yourself without a working battery.

-Will

 

[jssailem]

Practice landing at various guest docks

That is a great statement. If you cruise up here in the Pacific NW the opportunity to land on a dock with "Bull Rails" will be a new challenge to your seamanship skills.

 

[sesmith]

Agree on practicing docking skills. You really can't get too much of that. Until we started cruising various places, we pretty much sucked at it, though we didn't know it since we got pretty efficient at our home slip. We have it pretty much down cold these days regardless of wind. current or location. More importantly, we know when it isn't prudent to try a spot and ask for another slip instead. That's a hard call to make, but it does happen sometimes. Also, practicing things like stern bridles, springing out of a dock, etc. is very useful. Sometimes you can get into a slip just fine, but have to get creative to get back out of it the next day.

Concerning sailing practice, it's a practice every time we are out. Tweak this, tweak that, check the speed and see If you improved things. Make decisions on the best route to take to a destination based on wind at the time, and what the wind will be doing later in the day. Sometimes you nail it and pat yourself on the back. Other times you know you shoulda woulda done things differently and you'd have already been there.

I think the only difference after having sailed for quite a few years now vs when we started, is that we can now plan a trip, and trim the sails pretty quickly and confidently, get the biggest bang for the buck pretty quickly, and tweak things from there. Early on, we got huge improvements with the tweaks cause we were doing so many things wrong at the time. Other than that, nothing's really changed