Power Keel Winch installed....

[nemosuit]

The only major part missing from my recently acquired 1978 M22 was the keel winch.

I found a reasonably priced Dutton Lainson brake winch at Northern Tool, but it doesn't come with the cable and anyway they don't ship to Hawaii.

I went to the local Checker Auto Parts Store and found a 12-volt powered winch rated at 2000# for ATV and Boat use: the price was about $90.

Got it installed today and it seems to work just fine. Reinforced below the glass with plywood. All it cost me in aesthetics was one additional stainless steel fastener showing on the step leading to the cabin.

Here's some pics we shot this evening as the job was done.

VBR,

Pat

 

[caguy]

Nice job, but is the cable stainless steel?

 

[nemosuit]

Nice job, but is the cable stainless steel?

Thanks Frank! I've had the boat ten days, and we're doing the minimum to get her operational so we can see what we've got here. This winch was the most readily available expedient.

Stainless? Nope. The rope and eye look like stainless, but the manual says it's 49 feet of galvanized aircraft cable rated at 2000# test. I figure it'll last long enough to get the boat back in the water a few times and work out the bugs.

When the rope starts looking chancey, one of the guys here posted the link where the correct replacement cables are available; or I can rig it myself with 11 or 12 feet of stainless.

VBR,

Pat

 

[MrMikey64]

49 feet should be more than enough - yikes!!
My concern would be when you go to the shorter length. As I am not familiar with the setup of your power winch, what stops it from spinning out too much rope, resulting in tangled rope, etc. when you reel it back in? I noticed in other posts regarding power winches that microswitches were installed to stop the keel at the top and bottom of its run. Do yo plan on doing something similar?
Let me know how this works out for you, as this may be a mod I'd like to incorporate.

 

[nemosuit]

49 feet should be more than enough - yikes!!
My concern would be when you go to the shorter length. As I am not familiar with the setup of your power winch, what stops it from spinning out too much rope, resulting in tangled rope, etc. when you reel it back in? I noticed in other posts regarding power winches that microswitches were installed to stop the keel at the top and bottom of its run. Do yo plan on doing something similar?
Let me know how this works out for you, as this may be a mod I'd like to incorporate.

Mr.Mikey,

I was thinking that galvanized cable does have at least some protection against sea water; maintaining good lube on it would help; washing it down between trips with Salt Gone couldn't hurt; and the cable length might allow as many as three or four "trims" before I used it all up.

This winch has a built in brake clutch and planetary gear drive. If you look at the picture, that knob to the photo left of the winch (opposite side as the motor) can be pulled to disengage the clutch and allow the spool to free wheel. I did it on purpose before mounting the winch because I wanted to see how the cable was attached to the spool. Snarled it big time! But I just pulled it all out on the shop floor, re-engaged the clutch knob, and guided it on manually back and forth while I used the motor to rewind. If you don't mess with that knob, the cable won't get snarled up. If it does, it's not difficult to rewind it without kinks.

I've seen the video by the guy who made his with limiting switches. Pretty slick, I thought. It would enable him to raise and lower the keel from the cockpit. He's also got indicator lights showing the keel position, up or down. Neat!

I'm not going that far at this point. I'll do it manually and visually, by putting a marker on the cable (maybe some yellow shrink wrap) at the point where it's about at the winch when the keel is almost all the way up. And when it's all the way down, the cable goes slack. I'll just eyeball it for now.

The battery I'm using for the winch is for a motorcycle: about 7 X 4 X 2 inches. Won't take up much space or add much weight, and will keep the winch function separate from the 12volt marine battery I'll be operating the rest of the boat systems on.

You can probably find this kind of winch at a store near you, or maybe on eBay. If your boat is trailerable and lives at home between runs, I don't see why the stock cable can't provide some useful service for a while. I'll know more after I've used it for a while, and will post that info here.

The point Frank made about stainless steel makes sense to me, though. If the boat lives on a mooring, or when it's time for a replacement, I'd probably feel more comfortable with stainless.

VBR,

Pat

 

[timebandit]

My 25 has a bit of clear hose attached to the fitting in the hull (doubled clamped) to keep the water out, is yours missing?

Will the cable running back and forth along the winch cut into the hull?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

its nice but.... KISS simple is often better on boats...

can you manually operate that if you have no battery?

since its done, don't look back... you can get a SS cable for a winch later if needed.

 

[nemosuit]

My 25 has a bit of clear hose attached to the fitting in the hull (doubled clamped) to keep the water out, is yours missing?

Will the cable running back and forth along the winch cut into the hull?

Timebandit,

Hose missing? Apparently so. It's our first MacGregor, had it all of 11 days now, so we didn't know. But my wife and I were looking at it last night and we thought something like (at least) a rubber collar to keep the cable from chafing against the steel tube should be installed. I was actually thinking of a rubber hose to give the cable opening more freeboard.

MANY THANKS for describing the stock setup. I will install a piece of hose as you describe before we sail.

And no, the cable doesn't come anywhere near any part of the hull when spooling up or down.

VBR,

Pat

 

[nemosuit]

its nice but.... KISS simple is often better on boats...

can you manually operate that if you have no battery?

since its done, don't look back... you can get a SS cable for a winch later if needed.

Mr. Bill,

I totally agree. A manual winch is more reliable. My first choice was a Dutton-Lainson I found at Northern Tool; but they don't ship to Hawaii.

This winch was available locally with cable and built in guides (additional options with the D-L winch) at a price that was less than shipping would have been IF Northern Tool shipped to Hawaii, which they don't.

So that was my primary reason for buying it: an available expedient to get the boat back into the water.

The boat has a marine battery for the lights and such. In addition to that, I'm running the winch off a separate motorcycle battery. If one becomes discharged, I'll could rely on the other. We also have a solar battery charger.

The boat sat at mooring for many years. In 2008, when the PO put it on this trailer, it didn't have a keel winch. He was able to get the keel up manually (riding on a piece of lumber secured to a trailer crossmember) while winching the boat aboard the trailer. It can't be launched that way, though.

So I figure even if the motor fails, on the ramps we have here, we'll still be able to get the boat back on the trailer and home for repairs.

Other than that, it's (1) tie off at the dock; (2) drive to the car parts store and buy another winch; (3) drive back to the dock and swap winches; and (4) don SCUBA to complete the cable changeout underwater.

That said: I'm not advocating power over manual keel winches. We want to get the boat back into the water ASAP to see how she runs. The power winch is what we could get, and will serve that purpose for a while, anyway. If it fails, we'll have to deal with it.

That's why I'm still looking for a manual winch from a supplier who will ship to Hawaii at a reasonable cost. Any leads?

VBR,

Pat

 

[MrBill_FLL]

or, tie a line on one side of the boat, run it to the other side and winch the line to raise the centerboard. (diper style)


-I didn't realize you were in HI

you'll have to tell us about the remote island chain sometime!

 

[nemosuit]

or, tie a line on one side of the boat, run it to the other side and winch the line to raise the centerboard. (diper style)


-I didn't realize you were in HI

you'll have to tell us about the remote island chain sometime!

Mr. Bill,

Wait, would you explain that a little better? I'm a complete newcommer to Mac boats, and all I know is that keel is heavy. If there's a way to use the rigging to raise the keel, I'd like to know more about it as it might come in handy some time (especially since we're using a powered keel winch).

We're from California originally. Have family from Kauai. Stayed on Oahu for a short time in '68. Was looking for a good deal on property in '93 and moved here. I don't know a lot about this island chain (you're right, it's remote), but hope to work up to a larger boat in time and sail around after I retire. Maybe I can tell you more then.

I do know the Alenuihaha channel (between Hawaii and Maui) can be very treacherous to sailboats due to high winds.

I like the Big Island because it's still kind of "Mayberry". At least the Hilo side is. Laid back and low stress. We live out in the country and I love it.

Property prices have gone through some changes with the crazy economy lately; necessary commodities are expensive, the job market is down, and if you don't have a means of support this can be a hard place to survive. But it's nice if you're self-sufficient or a retiree.

Compared to the Mainland, supply is a big problem here. There isn't much selection, and we have to get things shipped in a lot of the time. Shipping costs are awfully steep, and some companies won't ship to Alaska or Hawaii at all.

Environmentally, the island is diverse. You can go snowboarding on top of a 13,000 foot mountain in the morning, and a couple hours later be laying on a sunbaked beach by the sea. If it's raining at home, the sun is shining somewhere that's only a short drive away.

The East side is usually windward, and the ocean can go through some treacherous changes. The West side is usually much calmer, and there's a whole different philosophy there when it comes to operating boats. I'm still learning about that, but I usually watch what others do and learn from the locals.

I plan to play it conservatively when we put the M22 (Kumukahi) back into the water: will sail it inside the breakwater of Hilo Bay until I get wired to it. Fortunately, there are some very experienced sailors here who have offered to help me, so I'm lucky there.

But again, I also appreciate the help and advice I'm getting on this forum; and if you'd care to elaborate on that alternative method of raising the keel, I'll be sure to make note of it. Thanks again.

VBR,

Pat

 

[caguy]

My 25 has a bit of clear hose attached to the fitting in the hull (doubled clamped) to keep the water out, is yours missing?

Will the cable running back and forth along the winch cut into the hull?

Good eye Timebandit! The hose has to be long enough to be above water level but short enough that it doesn't get caught in the winch.
If the hose is too short the water will pour in. Too long and it will get yanked out when you raise the keel.

 

[nemosuit]

Good eye Timebandit! The hose has to be long enough to be above water level but short enough that it doesn't get caught in the winch.
If the hose is too short the water will pour in. Too long and it will get yanked out when you raise the keel.

The top of the (let's call it a) keel cable guide tube is about 4.5 inches higher than the boot stripe. I'm thinking adding a piece of hose could be good insurance, but still thinking through exactly how I might do it. Some internal baffling or packing might be nice.

QUESTIONS for the Mac22 Owners: Does the Mac22 come stock with a hose attached to the keel cable guide tube, as Timebandit describes on his M25? Or maybe something else? What do you 22 owners have on your boats?

VBR,

Pat

 

[MrBill_FLL]

in an emergency, you could tie off some anchor rope (any thick long line) to a winch, walk it around the front of the boat (drop it in the water, and walk it back to the other winch, that would put the line ahead of the keel. then attach the free end to the other winch. now the line should still be ahead of the keel, and the winches behind the keel. (if not, set up some blocks/eyes to make it so), then winch up the keel. -a tiedown strap would also work...
the key is the winch is behind the pivot point...

-the bahamas and islands have similar supply and price issues... might want to find a friend in CA to drop ship stuff... maybe some board members here would do that for a price.

good luck!

 

[nemosuit]

in an emergency, you could tie off some anchor rope (any thick long line) to a winch, walk it around the front of the boat (drop it in the water, and walk it back to the other winch, that would put the line ahead of the keel. then attach the free end to the other winch. now the line should still be ahead of the keel, and the winches behind the keel. (if not, set up some blocks/eyes to make it so), then winch up the keel. -a tiedown strap would also work...
the key is the winch is behind the pivot point...

-the bahamas and islands have similar supply and price issues... might want to find a friend in CA to drop ship stuff... maybe some board members here would do that for a price.

good luck!

Thanks Mr. Bill,

That's a darn clever bit of seamanship. Good to know.

I've had a Windsurfer since the early 1980's; and I build underwater technologies; but to be honest, I am a complete newbie to sailing a boat. This Mac (found out the '78 is actually a Mac Venture 22) will be the one we cut our teeth on. I can see there's a lot to it. Fortunately, there are sailing instructors here in Hilo, but folks like yourself on this group are invaluable. Mahalo nui loa!

I've got a brother in California I could drop ship to and have him forward it. I try not to burden him with my projects. But if it's something I absolutely must have, I'll go that route. For now, the motor winch was cheaper than the D-L when I factored in shipping, plus the cable and guides which are extra with the D-L but came with the electric winch.

I think eventually I'll buy the stock winch, if only to have it around when this one fails. But for now, we'll be staying inside the breakwater and learning to sail with our electric winch.

And if it breaks down, I now know an alternative means of winching the keel up. Thanks again.

VBR,

Pat