Possible to clean under V-berth?

[51RD55]

Awhile back, at the very same time this site had undergone its upgrade, and I believe I was one of the first to post, some glitch prompted me to choose five posters to address my question to. I thought it was peculiar, but who was I to question how the new site worked. LOL

The next morning I could not find my post on the forum but was pleasantly surprised to have been answered by email. There was no way to put my original question into the forum, I was advised to re-post. The responses to my query were much appreciated.

Because my question involved the head, one of the persons I chose was of course, Peggy Hall and four others who had lots of posts and are prominent on the board.

We purchased a 1984 Hunter 31, this past summer and we are new to sailing.
The stench coming from head and under the V-berth was absolutely astonishing! But with an 8" x 8" door under a what appeared to be black mouldy and dirty V-berth, all I could think about was getting in there to clean it up.

We have ascertained that the fibreglass tank viable - no leaks. My husband is a carpenter and handyman (and a saint IMHO), for what he is doing to ensure the boat is odour free for next year's sailing pleasure :

1) Cut a large, horizontal opening under the V-Berth for access and better ventilation.
2) Gutted the head to the bare walls, removed all head hoses, painted inside head and
clean as well as could under V-Berth, and then painted with Zinzer.
3) Cutting the bottom of the bulk head and floor under settee as they are rotted and smelly.
The next step is that we will use PurAyre as recommended by Peggy to remove odors.

We would like advice on which toilet to purchase. This forum is amazing and I check in on a daily basis and appreciated the generosity and knowledge that is shared. Thanks!

 

[seadaddler]

What head are you replacing and are you thinking mannual pump or electric push button.
We have Sea Era electric and love it but it is noisey but we are OK with the noise and for more $$$ elegance have been told really nice friends who have it or a Raritan PH manual.
Nick

 

[wufibugs]

51, I pretty much did what you did this summer. Enlarged the opening under the V berth and reinforced it. Removed all hoses and Y valves, took the latter apart and cleaned everything [nasty job] and repainted under the berth as far as I could reach. Replaced the hoses under the berth with PVC pipe. Like you I took the head down to bear walls and used faux wood patterned linoleum on the walls. Currently rebuilding the vanity and all head storage. Peggy recommended the Raritan II manual and I went with that. Works fine. That clever woman also recommended allowing the head sink to drain either to the toilet or overboard allowing for fresh water flush option. Since I am set up to use fresh water at the slip [we stay many a weekend at the boat as our shoreline condo], all flushes at the slip use fresh water.

 

[Tally Ho]

+1 for the Raritan II.

My old boat had a Jabsco that needed constant TLC (lubricate pump assembly, replace joker valve, etc.).

My new (but older) boat has a Raritan manual head, and the power of the pump assembly seems much better, and I have not had to do anything to this toilet, despite its age.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If you want to stick with a manual toilet, this one: Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet

If you want the "push button convenience" of electric, on your boat I'd go with the Raritan SeaEra...either the sea water or the fresh water version, both available as a complete toilet or a "conversion" (everything south of the bowl). Raritan SeaEra SeaEra Conversion Kit

 

[woodster]

one thing for sure is..... it's gotta be a Raritan or nothing short of a 5 gallon bucket ...i have the manual household model and will never look for another ....the only thing i am going to change/try is the new flush handle that retracts out of the way and order some more of that chemical that comes as a sample in the new head package ....i also use fresh water not seawater for the flush

 

[51RD55]

Thank you everybody for your replies. With such positive feedback for the Raritan, that is the way we will go.
The original toilet was tossed and we will go with the manual which I believe is the PH11. As for the hoses, is it advisable to replace some of the flexible hose with solid PVC piping or ABS piping? Are there good fittings that can join PVC to flex hose in those tight spots? The marine shop that we visited last summer has three types of flex hose. The salesperson recommended the more expensive grey hose that is not ribbed and harder to work with and he said it would not have to be changed for at least 15 years. Can you advise us on hose options and their fittings as well? Many thanks. And as stated by Wufibugs, what a "nasty job"; not something you want to do too often. Having a root canal would be more pleasant, IMHO!!!!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

For several years now, Trident 101/102 (identical except for color) has the only sanitation hose I've recommended 'cuz it's been on the market for nearly 20 years without a single reported odor permeation failure. However, Raritan's "Saniflex" hose is proving itself to be as good, and has the added advantage of being exceptionally flexible, whereas Trident 101/102 is stiffer than an ironing board. The downside to the Raritan hose: price. Average price for Trident 101/102 is about $7/ft...Raritan "Saniflex" is about twice that much.

Neither Trident nor Raritan sanitation hose is grey, btw. And 10 years is the average working life of any hose--fuel, water, waste, exhaust--so a claim that any hose will last "at least" 15 years is to be taken with a grain of salt.

"...is it advisable to replace some of the flexible hose with solid PVC piping or ABS piping? Are there good fittings that can join PVC to flex hose in those tight spots?"

Hard PVC is only recommended for long straight runs 'cuz every "over, under, up or around" requires breaking it to insert an inline radius fitting...and every one of those is a potential leak. So if you have straight runs that are long enough, you can find fittings in the plumbing department of most box hardware stores that'll work. However, IMO the only advantage to hard pipe over top quality sanitation hose is cost.

Done right, replacing hoses in a sanitation does NOT have to a nasty a job...the key--as is true of most jobs--is in the prep. A month or two ago, I posted instructions...they shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

[wufibugs]

I would second what Peg says, with one small caveat: I feel comfortable using PVC anywhere and anyhow as long as you can use a 45 degree elbow [singly or in multiples]. I did not use any 90 degree elbows but then I avoid bending hose to 90 degrees. [If I was forced to employ a 90 degree bend, I probably would go with PVC.] I do not fear leaks at PVC joints because the primer/cement is more than a glue; it creates a weld. As long as you get that stuff everywhere on the mating surfaces, it won't leak and won't come apart. The big debate is flex stress on solid pipe. I have no idea just how much boats, particularly production boats, actually structurally change shape and how much such movement PVC can survive. Several of us have used PVC on production boats and I have not yet seen a post from anyone saying that they experienced a stress crack or break. [I suppose I should check with Robert Redford for a worst case scenario.]

 

[51RD55]

Finally tracked down a marine shop that sells Raritan in my city, (Toronto). Narrowed it down to these three and writing the description as per their catalogue :

1) Marine Elegance toilet tall with vortex vac
2) Marine Elegance toilet low/slanted 12 or 24V DC
3) Marine Elegance toilet with Solenoid 12v with vortex vac
Although a bit pricier than expected, opting for an electric cooler rather than a marine fridge, we can stay within this year's budget...well maybe, we've been told that B.OA.T. stands for "break out another thousand"! Anyhow, Peggie, what are your recommendations. We have friends with severe knee problems, so perhaps this would be easier for them and for us as well as we age.

The International Boat Show for Toronto begins on January 8 through to the 17th and the marine shop will be there. Perhaps they offer discounts and that would sure be nice. Even if they pay for the taxes!

Wishing everyone a Happy and Healthy New Year!

 

[51RD55]

I posted this New Year's Eve, so it may not have been viewed much. Any suggestions as to which Raritan, Marine Elegance toilet would be best to buy? We like the idea that I believe Peggie mentioned that some toilets require less ongoing maintenance than others, (leaving time for other types of maintenance.) I did let the Skipper know though that first and foremost as the boat is very sound and safe to sail, that is the first priority. So happy that he agrees!
The boat is smelling so much better now that we've 'demolished' the head and the old hoses are gone.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I didn't see this till today...

Ok...you've obviously settled on the Raritan Marine Elegance...good choice. As far as which version to buy--tall or short, straight or slant back--that depends on which fits your head. If it will back up to a sloping hull, you want the slanted back...if it will back up to a straight bulkhead, you want a straight back.

As for short vs tall...in most cases, if the toilet will mount on a riser, you'd need the short one to put the seat at standard household height (15" from floor to edge of seat)...if it mounts on the sole, the tall one.

As for voltage...12v on your boat.

A suggestion that's likely to beat even the best boat show price from a Canadian dealer. You live close enough to the border to rent an U.S address at a Mailboxes etc or similar store in or near Niagara Falls, order from a U.S. retailer and have it shipped to that address. We had a number of Canadian customers who did that and I know a bunch of people who do. Nothing illegal about it...you're not trying to avoid any duties, and you may not save much on the actual price of anything you buy here, but it saves a bundle in "international" shipping rates and "customs brokerage fees" that cost you a fortune and also drive up Canadian dealer prices. What you'll save by spending a couple of hours to make round trips across the border to collect your shipments is definitely worth the effort. You might even round up a few dockmates who'd like to share the address and take turns coming to collect their purchases.