Hi Everyone, I just became the owner of a clean 1981 H37C, a beautiful boat. But, during the survey moisture was found between two portlights on the cabin side. When the two portlights were removed, the core was only found to be damp. I removed all the portlights on that side of the boat and found some dampness in one other opening, the rest were dry. I did plan to replace all the portlights anyhow because they are showing signs of cracking and deterioration. There was also some small moisture readings around the two cabin top rear hatches. I would like to fix these before spring and I need some suggestions on the best way to fix both. I have found some information in the archives about the portlights. Here are some specific questions: 1. Should I replace the portlights with orginals Gray/Bomar or Beckson? I understand Beckson is a through-bolt installation. What would be advantages and disadvantages. 2. Should the portlight openings be sealed with epoxy? If so, what is the best way to do this? 3. The moisture around the hatches are probably from the screw leaks. What would be the best way to dry this without drilling a bunch of holes in the deck? Do you recommend rebedding the screws with epoxy? What would be the best way to do this? Any help would be appreciated.
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Welcome aboard !!
Greg, congratulations on your "new" H37C purchase. I have had mine since Sept 2002 (1979 model) and will be replacing the portlights this winter. I will go with the Beckson's rain drain instead of the original Bomars. I was going to go with stainless but can used the money saved on the Becksons for other upgrades. I only decided to go with the Becksons since they will probably drain better than the original Bomars. As far as installation is concerned there is a great post in the photo forum on the beckson's that adresses epoxy filling, see the link below. As far as moisture on the top deck core, I will let other experts in the forum give you better advice on how to deal with it, but I will certainly recommend that you look at rebedding everything on the top deck and check to see if your dorade boxes have been epoxy filled. Again, welcome and fair winds. Richard 1979 H37C Rhapsodie
Greg, congratulations on your "new" H37C purchase. I have had mine since Sept 2002 (1979 model) and will be replacing the portlights this winter. I will go with the Beckson's rain drain instead of the original Bomars. I was going to go with stainless but can used the money saved on the Becksons for other upgrades. I only decided to go with the Becksons since they will probably drain better than the original Bomars. As far as installation is concerned there is a great post in the photo forum on the beckson's that adresses epoxy filling, see the link below. As far as moisture on the top deck core, I will let other experts in the forum give you better advice on how to deal with it, but I will certainly recommend that you look at rebedding everything on the top deck and check to see if your dorade boxes have been epoxy filled. Again, welcome and fair winds. Richard 1979 H37C Rhapsodie
Cabintop Leaks
You may be assuming that the port lights are the culprit when often it's grab rail fasteners just above on the deck. If they can 'wiggle' at all, I'd unscrew them and check for moisture in the screw holes, then rebed and reinstall them. As far as the hatches, it's easiest to just remove them, duct tape a heavy garbage bag below (inside of the cabin) and scrape out any wet or soggy plywood or wet core material at the edges. Then I'd suspend a container of humidity /moisture absorbing pellets in the hatch opening and tape another dark colored garbage bag to the deck around the perimeter of the hatch opening. I left my boat like this thru the winter months allowing the moisture to be baked out by the sun and absorbed by the pellets.(change out the pellets as necessary) In the spring I cleaned out the core material at the edges where it had been damaged and replaced it with troweled in Marinetex to create a new solid edge. Then re-bed and reinstall the hatches. Make sure to predrill any screw holes in the Marinetex areas and set all screws in Life-Caulk or Life Seal sealant. You could treat the port light openings the same way, but whichever manufacturer you choose, bed them in something compatible and also removeable like Life-Caulk or Life Seal Sealant; Never use 5200 for this application.
You may be assuming that the port lights are the culprit when often it's grab rail fasteners just above on the deck. If they can 'wiggle' at all, I'd unscrew them and check for moisture in the screw holes, then rebed and reinstall them. As far as the hatches, it's easiest to just remove them, duct tape a heavy garbage bag below (inside of the cabin) and scrape out any wet or soggy plywood or wet core material at the edges. Then I'd suspend a container of humidity /moisture absorbing pellets in the hatch opening and tape another dark colored garbage bag to the deck around the perimeter of the hatch opening. I left my boat like this thru the winter months allowing the moisture to be baked out by the sun and absorbed by the pellets.(change out the pellets as necessary) In the spring I cleaned out the core material at the edges where it had been damaged and replaced it with troweled in Marinetex to create a new solid edge. Then re-bed and reinstall the hatches. Make sure to predrill any screw holes in the Marinetex areas and set all screws in Life-Caulk or Life Seal sealant. You could treat the port light openings the same way, but whichever manufacturer you choose, bed them in something compatible and also removeable like Life-Caulk or Life Seal Sealant; Never use 5200 for this application.
Welcome Greg.
Where did you find the '81? Someone came and sailed away the '84 that was for sale at Harbor North. Mile Alge's 1981(I think) is at Northeast Port near you. He and I have both installed NFM bronze portlights. Neither of us would recommend them because of the expense and the great difficulty in installation. They are bolt-through but I do not think that the Becksons are. The main thing with the Becksons is filling in the old drain notches and making new ones. As for epoxy just let the frames dry and then soak the plywood in an epoxy mix. I mixed it like peanut butter and then spread it liberally. Be sure to use lots of tape on both the inside and outside perimeters. It will stain the gelcoat otherwise. If the Becksons are not a snug fit you may want to glass in some shims at the same time. Then lots of silicon caulk when you reinstall. The other tips about hatches and handrails are right on. We spend a lot of time around the islands, hope to see you out there. Ladylove is right at the entrance to the Harbor North parking lot(picture).
Where did you find the '81? Someone came and sailed away the '84 that was for sale at Harbor North. Mile Alge's 1981(I think) is at Northeast Port near you. He and I have both installed NFM bronze portlights. Neither of us would recommend them because of the expense and the great difficulty in installation. They are bolt-through but I do not think that the Becksons are. The main thing with the Becksons is filling in the old drain notches and making new ones. As for epoxy just let the frames dry and then soak the plywood in an epoxy mix. I mixed it like peanut butter and then spread it liberally. Be sure to use lots of tape on both the inside and outside perimeters. It will stain the gelcoat otherwise. If the Becksons are not a snug fit you may want to glass in some shims at the same time. Then lots of silicon caulk when you reinstall. The other tips about hatches and handrails are right on. We spend a lot of time around the islands, hope to see you out there. Ladylove is right at the entrance to the Harbor North parking lot(picture).
Attachments
Moisture meters
Has anybody tried to use a moisture meter to track the water that is leaking into the cabin back to it's source? I think that this would be a pretty valuable tool to see how much of your core is wet.
Has anybody tried to use a moisture meter to track the water that is leaking into the cabin back to it's source? I think that this would be a pretty valuable tool to see how much of your core is wet.
Gray/Bomar or Beckson
Greg, Welcome. I recently decided to use Gray replacements because I did not need to do all the ports, and it seemed the most straightforward approach. Had I planned to do the entire boat, based on my archive searches, I probably would have gone to Beckson. Prices were close when I looked, though West Marine did manage to ship me a wrong port initially. I could not find a bargain buy on either. Good luck. You will love the boat, as we do our 79. Sanders s/v Good News
Greg, Welcome. I recently decided to use Gray replacements because I did not need to do all the ports, and it seemed the most straightforward approach. Had I planned to do the entire boat, based on my archive searches, I probably would have gone to Beckson. Prices were close when I looked, though West Marine did manage to ship me a wrong port initially. I could not find a bargain buy on either. Good luck. You will love the boat, as we do our 79. Sanders s/v Good News
cost vs. life span
I just replaced all my original Gray's with new Gray port lights. I used Sika-Flex instead of silicon or 5200. The reasons for the Gray's are simple. My original one's lasted 20+ years with no major problems other than I couldn't see through them. As for the bonding agent, I used the Sika Flex since silicone can't be sanded or painted over and 5200 is WAY too strong, stronger than the rest of the boat! Heaven help you if you need to pull one out later. Also, the 5200 will shrink just a tiny bit. That is too much for me. The sika flex has zero shrinkage and can be sanded/painted. As for using New Found Metals, their cost is so high when compared to the Gray's. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck with the project.
I just replaced all my original Gray's with new Gray port lights. I used Sika-Flex instead of silicon or 5200. The reasons for the Gray's are simple. My original one's lasted 20+ years with no major problems other than I couldn't see through them. As for the bonding agent, I used the Sika Flex since silicone can't be sanded or painted over and 5200 is WAY too strong, stronger than the rest of the boat! Heaven help you if you need to pull one out later. Also, the 5200 will shrink just a tiny bit. That is too much for me. The sika flex has zero shrinkage and can be sanded/painted. As for using New Found Metals, their cost is so high when compared to the Gray's. Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck with the project.
just a note
Greg, I just went through all this research on the ports and was convinced by some of the veterans around here to go with stainless steel. I know your not interested in those but this is just a note for others who might be. Dave Simpson turned me on to Hood ports which are made in Taiwan. They are even more money than NFM but if anyone out there wants SS ports, I would go with these. They are still on their way here so I can't say for certain, but Dave swears that they are a far better fit than the NFM's and alot of the people who have the NFM's say they were more trouble than they're worth. Josh
Greg, I just went through all this research on the ports and was convinced by some of the veterans around here to go with stainless steel. I know your not interested in those but this is just a note for others who might be. Dave Simpson turned me on to Hood ports which are made in Taiwan. They are even more money than NFM but if anyone out there wants SS ports, I would go with these. They are still on their way here so I can't say for certain, but Dave swears that they are a far better fit than the NFM's and alot of the people who have the NFM's say they were more trouble than they're worth. Josh
Thanks, and Moisture Meter
Thanks everyone for the good advice. I think I will end up with the Beckson ports. I'll let you know how it goes in the spring. For those of you interested in a moisture meter. I have talked with a number of surveyors and they have recommended the Tramex "Skipper". It is a little pricey, lists for $358.00. I think it will be worth it. I have provided a related link for the product information.
Thanks everyone for the good advice. I think I will end up with the Beckson ports. I'll let you know how it goes in the spring. For those of you interested in a moisture meter. I have talked with a number of surveyors and they have recommended the Tramex "Skipper". It is a little pricey, lists for $358.00. I think it will be worth it. I have provided a related link for the product information.
Rent-a-meter?
Just wondering if you looked for a rental Greg? I have always been afraid to know where the moisture is so have never looked for a meter. My surveyor took lots of pictures and circled questionable areas: around chainplates, near the mast, and around staysail traveler. I have fixed many things but never bothered to check moisture content or taken core samples on the decks. Especially since I have no leaks and no sponginess on deck surfaces. If you purchase one you could get your money back by renting yours. I might consider it. How much a weekend? No, not $358.!
Just wondering if you looked for a rental Greg? I have always been afraid to know where the moisture is so have never looked for a meter. My surveyor took lots of pictures and circled questionable areas: around chainplates, near the mast, and around staysail traveler. I have fixed many things but never bothered to check moisture content or taken core samples on the decks. Especially since I have no leaks and no sponginess on deck surfaces. If you purchase one you could get your money back by renting yours. I might consider it. How much a weekend? No, not $358.!
Moisture Meter Rental
Moisture meter rental? Good idea. I'll check to see if anyone is doing that. If not, I'll be buying one in the spring. Ed, I'm in Huron all the time. I'll stop in sometime in the spring and we can give your boat a once over. I've had people tell me that if you plan to keep your boat for a long time it is a good investment. Once leaks start eating at your core it can get expensive.
Moisture meter rental? Good idea. I'll check to see if anyone is doing that. If not, I'll be buying one in the spring. Ed, I'm in Huron all the time. I'll stop in sometime in the spring and we can give your boat a once over. I've had people tell me that if you plan to keep your boat for a long time it is a good investment. Once leaks start eating at your core it can get expensive.
Let us know
Let us know if you do end up buying one or if it is possible to rent. I would be willing to rent yours if you do end up buying one.
Let us know if you do end up buying one or if it is possible to rent. I would be willing to rent yours if you do end up buying one.
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