portapotty in keys?
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AS long as you don't dump it over the side, you're ok. When you check in to a marina or an anchorage, be sure to ask about facilities to dump it.
Sometimes it's hard to find a marina with a waste tank close by. When we sailed over to Martha's Vineyard back in the 1990s I used to carry a plastic bag that was large enough to put the waste tank in, and I'd carry it to a pubic rest room on the island and take it into a stall and dump it into the toilet. It's kind of a last resort that may be frowned upon, but it's not as taboo as dumping it into the water.
If you want to stay out longer you might want to look into Wag Bag/Double Doodie Bags. You can use them in a porta-potty. We ........
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-16-Powell-09.html
........like them as we can go many days between having to find a marina or such and we really like that there is no clean-up or hauling a porta-potty bottom around. Between uses there is no smell and during use we don't think the smell is any worst than a porta-potty.
I talked to an Everglades ranger on the phone and it sounds like in the park they are very restrictive to even gray water dumping. I need to check back, maybe Peggy knows, but if you filter say dish washing water you might be able to dump it. He said once outside the park boundaries you can dump the gray water, but of course not the human waste. You might want to call and talk to them.
Have a good trip,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
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http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/MacgregorTrips-3-Powell09/09-10-16-Powell-09.html
........like them as we can go many days between having to find a marina or such and we really like that there is no clean-up or hauling a porta-potty bottom around. Between uses there is no smell and during use we don't think the smell is any worst than a porta-potty.
I talked to an Everglades ranger on the phone and it sounds like in the park they are very restrictive to even gray water dumping. I need to check back, maybe Peggy knows, but if you filter say dish washing water you might be able to dump it. He said once outside the park boundaries you can dump the gray water, but of course not the human waste. You might want to call and talk to them.
Have a good trip,
Sum
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
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Is this a local municipal ruling? How do we find out so we can avoid those places?
Thanks,
Sum
P.S. We do have a holding tank.....
...........guess that isn't what they had in mind :cry:......
Sumner, This is a requirement for Boot Key Harbor, not sure where else. There is very little "local" rulings since the entire Keys are a marine sanctuary. I would suggest calling the Sanctuary offices and get the information since it does change. They are very helpful and will be happy to provide up to date information. Chuck
Are these the people you are talking about....
http://floridakeys.noaa.gov/sac/welcome.html
Thanks,
Sum
FL managed to do an end run around federal law...
FEDERAL marine sanitation laws only apply to vessels with with installed toilets...and do not require any vessel that doesn't have a toilet to install one.... EXCEPT for houseboats...which are defined in the CFR as any vessl that is used primarily as a residence and not as a means of transportation. States CAN make up their own rules pertaining to houseboats. So FL decided that every vessel 26' + is a "houseboat" and that all "houseboats" must have an installed toilet and holding tank and/or treatment device.
So you CAN have a portapotty...if the boat is < 26' you can use a portable portapotty, wag bag or whatever...but if your boat is 26' or larger, at a minimum the portapotty has to be an MSD version--permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. Or a marine toilet, holding tank and all the related plumbing. But I don't see how anyone can prevent you from using wag bags and putting 'em in the trash instead of using the toilet if you want to, on ANY size boat!
Btw...FL also succeeded in extending the "3 mile limit" to 12 miles in Gulf waters of the Keys and are trying to make it the same on the Atlantic side.
FEDERAL marine sanitation laws only apply to vessels with with installed toilets...and do not require any vessel that doesn't have a toilet to install one.... EXCEPT for houseboats...which are defined in the CFR as any vessl that is used primarily as a residence and not as a means of transportation. States CAN make up their own rules pertaining to houseboats. So FL decided that every vessel 26' + is a "houseboat" and that all "houseboats" must have an installed toilet and holding tank and/or treatment device.
So you CAN have a portapotty...if the boat is < 26' you can use a portable portapotty, wag bag or whatever...but if your boat is 26' or larger, at a minimum the portapotty has to be an MSD version--permanently installed and fitted for pumpout. Or a marine toilet, holding tank and all the related plumbing. But I don't see how anyone can prevent you from using wag bags and putting 'em in the trash instead of using the toilet if you want to, on ANY size boat!
Btw...FL also succeeded in extending the "3 mile limit" to 12 miles in Gulf waters of the Keys and are trying to make it the same on the Atlantic side.
Peggy, Unfortunately the Florida Keys being a designated Marine Sanctuary have unique regulations that differ from the CFRs, and regardless of the size of the boat, the regs for Boot Key that are being enforced are that a boat that has a head, regardless of the size, must have a holding tank and deck pump out. Small boats WITHOUT heads, and this includes portapottys, are the only exclusion at this time. You must register to enter the harbor with the harbormaster at the marina and they keep track of your pump outs at the marina where the only pump out, other than if you are docked at one of the other marinas, is located. You can't use the standard federal regs here.
I'm aware that there are different rules for the Sanctuary...in fact, different rules for different parts of it. There are a few areas in it near the Dry Tortugas--notably where reefs are located--where gray water and even bilge water discharge is prohibited...engine cooling water is the only thing permitted....and of course no anchoring is not allowed either. They're relatively small and clearly market on charts.
Those ARE the standard federal regs. The only thing FL manage to do that's different is declare every vessel 26' + a "houseboat" which allowed the state to require 'em to install a toilet...which would then force the owner to install a tank etc too...as required by federal law in all "no discharge" waters.
If I may I think where you guys are disagreeing, if you are, is about the above sentence. I think Chuck is saying that if you have a portapotty you are "not excluded" and I think Peggy is saying that you "are excluded" if you are under 26 feet and have a portapotty and not an "installed" marine head.
Or then again maybe I'm not reading any of this in the way it is intended
. We will probably stay away from Boot Key Harbor regardless.Things are simpler in the west
,Sum
portapotty question
Thank you Peggy.My boat is 25' so hopefully free of the houseboat requirements. Small boats....they're great! I would never dump over the side, that's why I carry 2 units. Those bags sound like something to look into as well. Thanks again everybody.
What matters is, toilet waste and human body waste from ALL vessels must be held for disposal ashore...but again, that's no different from federal law. Portable portapotties aren't considered "installed" devices, but the same federal law that prohibits "bucket and chuck it" catches them too.If I may I think where you guys are disagreeing, if you are, is about the above sentence. I think Chuck is saying that if you have a portapotty you are "not excluded" and I think Peggy is saying that you "are excluded" if you are under 26 feet and have a portapotty and not an "installed" marine head. Or then again maybe I'm not reading any of this in the way it is intended
Things are simpler in the west
Things aren't necessarily that much simpler in the west...the rules for Boot Key are pretty much the same as the ones for Catalina Island...at Catalina they even drop a dye tablet into the toilet and flush it to make sure you're holding...and there are some pretty draconian rules that even require gray water holding from "houseboats" on some of the CA inland lakes, too.
I suspect we're gonna be buried under a new barrage of clean water legislation...'cuz now that global warming is off the table, the enviromental extremists need a new target...and every time they do, it almost always turns out to be boats.
Guess I should of said "the mountain west" :cry:. We haven't seen much of anyone on our trips in the way of law enforcement, with the exception of the guys looking for us on Lake Powell when they though we went missing, but that doesn't mean we would dump overboard either. We like seeing the bottom 20 feet or more down in the lakes we sail in.
Thanks for the input on all of this Peggie, we have a lot better understanding now,
Sum and Ruth
Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID
Sanctuary laws
I spoke with a gentleman with the Federal Sanctuary in the Keys a few days ago. I suggest that anyone that has a question contact them for correct information. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there.
Here are a few high points of our conversation. You of course, cannot dump wastes in the water. There is nothing wrong in having porta-pottis in the area.
(He said he has two on this 37' sailboat) There is nothing in Federal or State law that prevents someone from using a porta-potti.
It is my understanding that USCG exempts porta-pottis from "MSD" rules because they are not considered "MSD's" because they are removable.
He explained that the local issue in the Key's has to do with certain municipal regulations (as in Marathon) that mandates that boats must have a pump out fitting. The mobile pump out boats will not accept porta-pottis to dump. That is a regulation in the contract that you sign if you are on a mooring there. (owned by the city) You can modify many porta-pottis with a pump out hose and deck fitting if you wish. The problem is compounded there (as I understand it) because there are no readily accessible "dump stations" unless you are in a marina and no public toilets.
I have no personal knowledge of the area, only what he explained to me.
One other thought...
the Internet is a wonderful thing and these boards are great for gaining knowledge BUT sometimes you need to pick up a phone and go straight to the source for information.
I spoke with a gentleman with the Federal Sanctuary in the Keys a few days ago. I suggest that anyone that has a question contact them for correct information. There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there.
Here are a few high points of our conversation. You of course, cannot dump wastes in the water. There is nothing wrong in having porta-pottis in the area.
(He said he has two on this 37' sailboat) There is nothing in Federal or State law that prevents someone from using a porta-potti.
It is my understanding that USCG exempts porta-pottis from "MSD" rules because they are not considered "MSD's" because they are removable.
He explained that the local issue in the Key's has to do with certain municipal regulations (as in Marathon) that mandates that boats must have a pump out fitting. The mobile pump out boats will not accept porta-pottis to dump. That is a regulation in the contract that you sign if you are on a mooring there. (owned by the city) You can modify many porta-pottis with a pump out hose and deck fitting if you wish. The problem is compounded there (as I understand it) because there are no readily accessible "dump stations" unless you are in a marina and no public toilets.
I have no personal knowledge of the area, only what he explained to me.
One other thought...
the Internet is a wonderful thing and these boards are great for gaining knowledge BUT sometimes you need to pick up a phone and go straight to the source for information.
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Mike, I would add this;
Get the regulation in writing!
Some Barney Fife cops want to 'interpret' as they see fit. Always asked where you can find the regulation...then print it out!
Jack
Get the regulation in writing!
Some Barney Fife cops want to 'interpret' as they see fit. Always asked where you can find the regulation...then print it out!
Jack
Clairification on provious posting
The problem is compounded there (as I understand it) because there are no readily accessible "dump stations" unless you are in a marina and no public toilets.
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In Boot Key...there was a dump station at the end of the dingy dock last year and there is several public restrooms....so I can not see the problem with having a proper dump station for the smaller boats that do not come equiped with a built in MSD.
Just think someone needs to put on their common sense cap...on this one.
The problem is compounded there (as I understand it) because there are no readily accessible "dump stations" unless you are in a marina and no public toilets.
==============================================
In Boot Key...there was a dump station at the end of the dingy dock last year and there is several public restrooms....so I can not see the problem with having a proper dump station for the smaller boats that do not come equiped with a built in MSD.
Just think someone needs to put on their common sense cap...on this one.
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