I have some questions about portable pump out boats. After they pump my boat out where do they then pump their waste? Do these commercial boats use a marina's pump out station? If so do they pay per gallon or do they usually have a contract with them. I would think the local county/city would prefer they pump out their large tanks directly to the local system but where would they do that? I know, too many questions so early in the morning. I was thinking about all this the other day while talking to a friend about the business end of portable pump stations. Any input would be appreciated, this actually seems to be a good idea and I think there should be more boats like this around the country, some of would stay at anchor longer is we had no pump-out issues to deal with. I also think more people would use their holding tanks if the pump out issue was easier to deal with (like them coming to you).
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Pump out boats
I just spoke to Friends of Casco Bay who operate a mobile pump out boat. (Hail Baykeeper II on 9 or 16 in Casco Bay) They explained that in most areas these types of boats are required to connect to city plumbed systems to off-load waste. They are no permitted to simply run out to the three-mile line and dump the waster. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
I just spoke to Friends of Casco Bay who operate a mobile pump out boat. (Hail Baykeeper II on 9 or 16 in Casco Bay) They explained that in most areas these types of boats are required to connect to city plumbed systems to off-load waste. They are no permitted to simply run out to the three-mile line and dump the waster. Justin - O'day Owners' Web
Various ways, depending on location
Where sewer is available, they can--usually for a fee--empty their tanks directly into the sewer line. In remote locations where there is no sewer, it can't go into a septic tank for several reasons: 1. toxic holding tank chemicals would kill the septic tank; 2. Too large a volume for the septic tank in addition to the marina rest rooms, restaurant etc. So most marinas that don't have sewer have large inground tanks just for pump out waste, which are serviced by pumper trucks (a MAJOR expense for marinas, btw). The mobile pumpout service may have a deal with the marinas to put what they pump from that marina's tenants into their in-ground storage tanks...or they may even have their own pumper truck. Operating a mobile pumpout service is NOT cheap...first, there's the boat big enough for a tank that holds at least 300 gallons...smaller, and you spend more time emptying it than pumping out boats...fuel and maintenance for the boat and pumping equipment. Then there are licenses and permits, insurance--including a whopping amount of liability and HAZMAT spill insurance...the cost of disposing of the waste (pumper trucks are expensive because they not only have to charge for their service, but pay a fee to unload at the sewage treatment plant)...maybe crew to pay. And (one HOPES) a little left over to pay yourself. Which is why they have to charge $20-25 to pump out a 10-20 gallon tank (twice that for 50 gal+) in the slip on a scheduled weekday route. To make any money "on call" for trips to an anchorage, you'd have to charge at LEAST $50...more than most people would pay to have a 20 gal tank pumped out.
Where sewer is available, they can--usually for a fee--empty their tanks directly into the sewer line. In remote locations where there is no sewer, it can't go into a septic tank for several reasons: 1. toxic holding tank chemicals would kill the septic tank; 2. Too large a volume for the septic tank in addition to the marina rest rooms, restaurant etc. So most marinas that don't have sewer have large inground tanks just for pump out waste, which are serviced by pumper trucks (a MAJOR expense for marinas, btw). The mobile pumpout service may have a deal with the marinas to put what they pump from that marina's tenants into their in-ground storage tanks...or they may even have their own pumper truck. Operating a mobile pumpout service is NOT cheap...first, there's the boat big enough for a tank that holds at least 300 gallons...smaller, and you spend more time emptying it than pumping out boats...fuel and maintenance for the boat and pumping equipment. Then there are licenses and permits, insurance--including a whopping amount of liability and HAZMAT spill insurance...the cost of disposing of the waste (pumper trucks are expensive because they not only have to charge for their service, but pay a fee to unload at the sewage treatment plant)...maybe crew to pay. And (one HOPES) a little left over to pay yourself. Which is why they have to charge $20-25 to pump out a 10-20 gallon tank (twice that for 50 gal+) in the slip on a scheduled weekday route. To make any money "on call" for trips to an anchorage, you'd have to charge at LEAST $50...more than most people would pay to have a 20 gal tank pumped out.
no wonder
No wonder so many people just dump their waste directly into the H2O with so few places to properly put the stuff. Seems to me that our EPA would be more than happy to assist these small companies by easing the permitting process and doing other things to help out. As for insurance, that seems to be a sign of the times. I see a time in the not-too-distant future where insurance is simply too expansive for the average person to have. Guess we'll all have to wait for technology to catch up to our population before we can properly handle our own waste.
No wonder so many people just dump their waste directly into the H2O with so few places to properly put the stuff. Seems to me that our EPA would be more than happy to assist these small companies by easing the permitting process and doing other things to help out. As for insurance, that seems to be a sign of the times. I see a time in the not-too-distant future where insurance is simply too expansive for the average person to have. Guess we'll all have to wait for technology to catch up to our population before we can properly handle our own waste.
Grant money is available, Scott
The Clean Vessel Act of 1992 provided for grants to cover most of the cost of installing land-based and mobile pumpouts. And permits are easy to get...in fact, some states enacted legislation REQUIRING all marinas that have over a specified number of slips to install pumpouts. However, the cost of installing a pumpout is just the first verse...marinas must bear the the cost of maintaining the equipment, disposing of the waste collected, employees to man it (cheaper than repairing self-service). The annual upkeep for a pumpout is about $25k a year for most marinas...but to remove price as a reason for not to hold and pump out, if grant money paid for the installation, they maximum they can charge is $5. As for waiting for technology to catch up, it already has--at least in your waters. The ICW and coastal waters off Miami aren't "no discharge," the discharge of treated waste is legal, So you don't have to use a holding tank, you can install a Type I MSD (Lectra/San), which is a far better way to handle waste...no chemicals, and the discharge from it is cleaner than the discharge from most sewage treatments plants, which is where holding tank contents end up.
The Clean Vessel Act of 1992 provided for grants to cover most of the cost of installing land-based and mobile pumpouts. And permits are easy to get...in fact, some states enacted legislation REQUIRING all marinas that have over a specified number of slips to install pumpouts. However, the cost of installing a pumpout is just the first verse...marinas must bear the the cost of maintaining the equipment, disposing of the waste collected, employees to man it (cheaper than repairing self-service). The annual upkeep for a pumpout is about $25k a year for most marinas...but to remove price as a reason for not to hold and pump out, if grant money paid for the installation, they maximum they can charge is $5. As for waiting for technology to catch up, it already has--at least in your waters. The ICW and coastal waters off Miami aren't "no discharge," the discharge of treated waste is legal, So you don't have to use a holding tank, you can install a Type I MSD (Lectra/San), which is a far better way to handle waste...no chemicals, and the discharge from it is cleaner than the discharge from most sewage treatments plants, which is where holding tank contents end up.
Fortunate
i guess we are just fortunate here (Channel Islands) we have 3 pumpout stations. All are self serve and free and are seldomn inop. One is at the Harbor Patrol location and on several occasions the harbor patrol has given us a hand docking or leaving.
i guess we are just fortunate here (Channel Islands) we have 3 pumpout stations. All are self serve and free and are seldomn inop. One is at the Harbor Patrol location and on several occasions the harbor patrol has given us a hand docking or leaving.
The mobile pumpout boat here
in Mystic operates on some kind of subsidy and does not charge for its service. You hail them on channel 68, and generally the wait on a weekend day can be as long as an hour. Not bad really, since the boat covers a rather large area (from Mystic Seaport to noank). The girl who operates the boat is a college student and last year was our dockmaster. She tells us that this gig pays a lot better, $10.00 an hour and no one ever gives less then a 5.00 dollar tip. On a good day she can do 50 or 60 boats. I see her pumping out the pump boat at whatever marina she is close to when she needs it. Chris s/v Tidesong
in Mystic operates on some kind of subsidy and does not charge for its service. You hail them on channel 68, and generally the wait on a weekend day can be as long as an hour. Not bad really, since the boat covers a rather large area (from Mystic Seaport to noank). The girl who operates the boat is a college student and last year was our dockmaster. She tells us that this gig pays a lot better, $10.00 an hour and no one ever gives less then a 5.00 dollar tip. On a good day she can do 50 or 60 boats. I see her pumping out the pump boat at whatever marina she is close to when she needs it. Chris s/v Tidesong
weird question
Okay, here is a really weird question. How much does a gallon of sewage weigh? I know a gallon of sea water is about 8.6 +/- lbs. I'm guessing sewage is a bit more. This question comes from a bar room discussion. I should leave the rest of the story on how this topic came to be in the first place alone since this is a family forum.....
Okay, here is a really weird question. How much does a gallon of sewage weigh? I know a gallon of sea water is about 8.6 +/- lbs. I'm guessing sewage is a bit more. This question comes from a bar room discussion. I should leave the rest of the story on how this topic came to be in the first place alone since this is a family forum.....
It depends Scott...
The exact makeup of the sewage would affect the weight. Sewage with (how shall we put this...): "floaters" might be a bit lighter than water per unit volume.
The exact makeup of the sewage would affect the weight. Sewage with (how shall we put this...): "floaters" might be a bit lighter than water per unit volume.
Peggy - a question you've answered 1,000 times
You say in this string that the ICW and Miami are not "no discharge" zones, therefore Lectra/San is legal. I think the Chesapeake Bay is a "no discharge zone", therefor the Lectra/San is not legal here, correct? (If you don't know the first part for sure, the question is really that Lectra/San is not legal in no discharge zones. I assume that means marinas that say "closed head only".) BTW, the city of Annapolis operates a great pumpout boat service in the moorings and achorage area for $5. Beats pulling up to a marina any day.
You say in this string that the ICW and Miami are not "no discharge" zones, therefore Lectra/San is legal. I think the Chesapeake Bay is a "no discharge zone", therefor the Lectra/San is not legal here, correct? (If you don't know the first part for sure, the question is really that Lectra/San is not legal in no discharge zones. I assume that means marinas that say "closed head only".) BTW, the city of Annapolis operates a great pumpout boat service in the moorings and achorage area for $5. Beats pulling up to a marina any day.
Chesapeake Bay is NOT "no discharge"
There are only a few places on it that are, and they're small. You can get a map from the MD DNR that shows where they are. Except for those designated areas, a Lectra/San is legal. The weight of waste doesn't vary...it weighs the same amount as water: 8.333 lbs/gal. Unlike ice, solid waste--which is at least 95% water--does not expand to displace more water than it weighs. Btw...there aren't very many questions left to ask that I haven't already answered at least 1,000 times in the last 15 years.
There are only a few places on it that are, and they're small. You can get a map from the MD DNR that shows where they are. Except for those designated areas, a Lectra/San is legal. The weight of waste doesn't vary...it weighs the same amount as water: 8.333 lbs/gal. Unlike ice, solid waste--which is at least 95% water--does not expand to displace more water than it weighs. Btw...there aren't very many questions left to ask that I haven't already answered at least 1,000 times in the last 15 years.
Chesapeake Bay No Discharge Areas
You can find the Chesapeake Bay no discharge area maps at the link below. As Peggie says they are small and local.
You can find the Chesapeake Bay no discharge area maps at the link below. As Peggie says they are small and local.
grant money
where can I get more information on this clean vessel act of 1992 and what type boats are they using, what type equipment, size tankage do they haul fresh water also to boat on a mooring,are any of them on a web site, any pictures of these boats? Ken
where can I get more information on this clean vessel act of 1992 and what type boats are they using, what type equipment, size tankage do they haul fresh water also to boat on a mooring,are any of them on a web site, any pictures of these boats? Ken
web sites
Ken, DEP has a wealth of information on this topic. If you are interested in grant money they also have all that information. Keep in mind that if you are running a pump out business for profit than you can not charge more than $5 per pump if you receive grant money in Florida, kinda makes it tough to make a dime huh? I've listed one link below that sell commercial pump out vessels. No room for other links so here they are; www.pumpoutboats.com www.marinertechnologies.com Good luck, hope you can make it work so we all have clean water to sail in...
Ken, DEP has a wealth of information on this topic. If you are interested in grant money they also have all that information. Keep in mind that if you are running a pump out business for profit than you can not charge more than $5 per pump if you receive grant money in Florida, kinda makes it tough to make a dime huh? I've listed one link below that sell commercial pump out vessels. No room for other links so here they are; www.pumpoutboats.com www.marinertechnologies.com Good luck, hope you can make it work so we all have clean water to sail in...
m/v honey bucket
hey Scot, thanks a lot for the information it is a big help to me now if i can get a hold of the people at dep i'll be all right last week their phones were down changing over phone numbers
hey Scot, thanks a lot for the information it is a big help to me now if i can get a hold of the people at dep i'll be all right last week their phones were down changing over phone numbers
Up at Roche Harbor, Washington
... in the San Juan Islands they have the m/v Phecal Phreak -- honest! I have a photo to prove it (too large a file to post). Their motto -- "We take crap from anyone" --Ron s/v Lady Jane
... in the San Juan Islands they have the m/v Phecal Phreak -- honest! I have a photo to prove it (too large a file to post). Their motto -- "We take crap from anyone" --Ron s/v Lady Jane
How about deck side pump out
I keep my boat at Herrington Harbour North and they have a wonderful pump out service called Safe Harbour. They will pump out your boat, in you slip on a scheduled bases. You can call them the Sunday before and cancel that week's pumpout if you do not require it. Right now I am on a two week schedule. it coat $15 for my 28 gal tank. It is one of the reason that it would be tough for me to leave. They have this machine that they roll down the dock. No pumpout boat required. BTW Herring Bay is one of the No discharge zones in the Chesapeake. It was recently added to the list.
I keep my boat at Herrington Harbour North and they have a wonderful pump out service called Safe Harbour. They will pump out your boat, in you slip on a scheduled bases. You can call them the Sunday before and cancel that week's pumpout if you do not require it. Right now I am on a two week schedule. it coat $15 for my 28 gal tank. It is one of the reason that it would be tough for me to leave. They have this machine that they roll down the dock. No pumpout boat required. BTW Herring Bay is one of the No discharge zones in the Chesapeake. It was recently added to the list.
no docks
Dock side pump-out would be wonderful if we only had docks. The area's in S. Fla are stuffed with tiny anchorages and the object is to get pump-out facilities to those boaters hanging out in the anchorages. If it is easy for them to pump out they will do it more often.
Dock side pump-out would be wonderful if we only had docks. The area's in S. Fla are stuffed with tiny anchorages and the object is to get pump-out facilities to those boaters hanging out in the anchorages. If it is easy for them to pump out they will do it more often.
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