Port dimensions 1982 Hunter Cherubini 36/SL

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
Any chance you could post some detail about the process of replacing in general and any specifics about doing so with the NFM ports in lieu of swapping the Bowmar originals?
Sure

I used http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/nfm_port_lights with a couple of modifications (Didn't use any sealant but used his butyl tape for everything)

I put a kinda half assed description here http://www.gudgeonblog.ca/installing-a-new-found-metals-porthole/

Also apparently they had leaked and a PO had 'fixed' the issue by smearing 5200 all over the inside seal. Sigh. So the portholes have been a bit harder than they should be to take off.

5 out of 10 done so far!
 

tmjb

.
Mar 13, 2012
222
Hunter 36C Glen Cove
Sure

I used http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/nfm_port_lights with a couple of modifications (Didn't use any sealant but used his butyl tape for everything)

I put a kinda half assed description here http://www.gudgeonblog.ca/installing-a-new-found-metals-porthole/

Also apparently they had leaked and a PO had 'fixed' the issue by smearing 5200 all over the inside seal. Sigh. So the portholes have been a bit harder than they should be to take off.

5 out of 10 done so far!
]
Many thanks for this Alcatel. Very informative. Approximately how long did it take you per port?

Am I correct that the exterior cabin top and interior liner are hard up against one another at the ports? Are they bonded together there or just tight up against one another? Also, I'm pretty certain I've read recommendations about sealing the core somewhere - removing core and filling with thickened epoxy etc. It looks like the core is plywood(?) and that this would be a bear. Am I correct?

By the way, in one shot I see you're non-skid on the deck looks like the same light blue as mine - which in my case is worn thin in patches , delaminated in one, and I had assumed was paint. I've been trying to decide what to do about it (particularly due to the one delaminated spot). Any thoughts etc?

I also have a leak/former leak over my chart table. Another annoying one is that after some heavy rain water ends up on the chart table just forward of the fuse panel. I think it leaks somewhere forward (maybe the grab rails or ports, runs aft on top of the liner and onto the table through the gap between the aft end of the liner and the face of the fuse panel. Do you have any experience of this?
 

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
Many thanks for this Alcatel. Very informative. Approximately how long did it take you per port?
A few hours per port, I'm def getting faster. It's over two evenings, first evening I remove the old port and fill in the old drain holes with epoxy. Next evening I trim down the hole and install new port.

Am I correct that the exterior cabin top and interior liner are hard up against one another at the ports? Are they bonded together there or just tight up against one another? Also, I'm pretty certain I've read recommendations about sealing the core somewhere - removing core and filling with thickened epoxy etc. It looks like the core is plywood(?) and that this would be a bear. Am I correct?
The layers had seperated a bit in several of mine, probably due to water damage. I originally stuck them back together for the first couple and then didn't bother. The design of the port pulls the thing tight anyway.
You COULD seal the core but it'd take a long time, as you'd have to trim everything back. I didn't bother. I didn't seal the inside of the port so if there were any leaks I'd see them.
By the way, in one shot I see you're non-skid on the deck looks like the same light blue as mine - which in my case is worn thin in patches , delaminated in one, and I had assumed was paint. I've been trying to decide what to do about it (particularly due to the one delaminated spot). Any thoughts etc?
I'm probably gonna kiwi-grip the whole non skid area. Seemed to be the quickest easiest way. Probably next spring.

I also have a leak/former leak over my chart table. Another annoying one is that after some heavy rain water ends up on the chart table just forward of the fuse panel. I think it leaks somewhere forward (maybe the grab rails or ports, runs aft on top of the liner and onto the table through the gap between the aft end of the liner and the face of the fuse panel. Do you have any experience of this?
Yup, I have/had a leak in the exact same spot. It's probably either the chainplates, the ports or the grab rails. In my case it was the chain plates and the ports - both were leaking pretty bad. I've redone the chain plates and all the ports on that side so now I just need to wait for rain and see if I fixed it. I actually removed the grab rails and will replace them with throughbolted stainless ones, like someone else here has.
 

paolex

.
Jun 8, 2015
16
Hunter 36 FLL
Update: So far I've installed two aft 818's and a 715. Here's my basic, draft step-by-step (pictures later):
1. removed all screws from outside trim rings. I chose to remove all the screws from all ports at once to save time. I saved these but am not going to reuse as the new trim rings (btw Bomar calls them "beauty rings") do not have screw holes.
2. removed interior screws. Save these as you should be able to reuse these.
3. tapped the tip of a flat head screwdriver into the interior, top aft corner of the portlight.
4. pried the frame with one small- and one medium-sized hammer, slowly. The speed with which the old silicone separates is non-negotiable, so use considerable force and some restraint so that you don't break the old frame. After the second portlight, I was able to remove them in about 5 minutes using this method.
5. cleaned the old caulk with a high speed vibratory tool with a three-quarter moon type flat scraper attachment. This takes a while, maybe 40 minutes. I sprayed water on my work and continued grinding away wherever it beaded up (silicon residue).
6. With a razor scraped clean the inside (cabin-side) and outside (deck-side).
7. gave it a final sand with 220 paper and an orbital palm sander.
8. dry fit the new portlights paying particular attention to the "beauty ring." The fitment of the portlight itself is OEM, perfect. However the drain holes are at an incorrect angle. Apparently there is nothing that can be done about this because only one angled option is offered. As for the "beauty ring," IT DOES NOT FIT PROPERLY. The issue is that the "beauty ring" does not lay flat with respect to the frame of the portlight. So that when it is installed, the "beauty ring" tends to want to come loose toward the top of the portlight on the deck-side. I called Bomar Grey about this and they tell me that the molds they use now are from the 90's and that they should fit fine. They don't. The fabrication of the trim ring is really sort of careless, and you can see all the excess molding (mold edges) around the edges of the ring. The excess plastic on the inside edge of the ring messes with proper fitment. Forcing me to do the next step:
9. With a small round fine metal file and a medium large fine metal file, I removed all the extra plastic on the inside edge of the "beauty ring." I also filed the inside top edge of the beauty ring which was pressing on the top edge of the portlight frame and preventing it from laying flat. All in all this part was disappointing. I am disappointed in the apparent carelessness with which these replacement ports were manufactured. Aside from that they look like they will hold up fine, if properly installed.
10. I put a fat bead of clear 100% silicone along the bottom and for and aft edges of the portlight. My core is made of plywood and dry, and I left it alone. I did not place any silicone on the cabin-side or deck-sides in this step.
11. Installed the new portlight by placing the bottom section in first, pushing in the top section and adding the top then the bottom screws. Visually inspected from the outside, then installed the rest of the screws.
12. filled up any remaining gaps with 100% silicone from the outside and built up the bead to be as flush as possible with the deck.
13. After about 20 minutes, added the beauty ring with a good bead of silicone on the back, pressing it in place and holding it there with wooden stakes clamped in place with 6- 5" c-shaped clamps.
14. After 2 hours, removed c-clamps and cleaned up excess silicone with a razor blade and pray to sea gods for no leaks.
 

tmjb

.
Mar 13, 2012
222
Hunter 36C Glen Cove
Many thanks for the detailed description. Sorry to here that it was a bit frustrating due to the manufacturing
 

paolex

.
Jun 8, 2015
16
Hunter 36 FLL
Bomar Customer Service's reply to my inquiry (on-point in this thread since I think most of our boats are pre-1984) follows:
"The Gray series line was purchased by our company in 1984/85. If the original product on your boat was manufactured before this time there is a possibility the new portlight frame/trim ring made today would not be an identical match to the older out of date version. Our company continues to only offer the new modified version. The cut out and OD dimensions of the Gray Series portlight line has never changed over the years. CE standards with time created the push in this design change. We would suggest to have someone trim down the new style trim ring on your end for a proper fit."
 

paolex

.
Jun 8, 2015
16
Hunter 36 FLL
Anybody know what size bimini to use? I would like to mount on coamings (as opposed to rail). The SBO store doesn't seem to carry a precut version, so I may have to modify some other model to fit (btw I realize my question is off-topic but I am not sure if it's worth starting a new thread. I realize biminis are sort of complicated, but hoping a H x W x L answer is possible) Thanks!
 

Alctel

.
Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
I'd start a new thread - I have a feeling biminis are kind of a big topic. I don't even have one, I ditched the one it came with as it didn't really fit and got in the way.
 

tmjb

.
Mar 13, 2012
222
Hunter 36C Glen Cove
Hi Paolex,

Happy New Year!

I'm now thinking about proceeding with replacing my portlights and realized that i never saw photos of your progress. Any chance you have some and can post - together with any further thoughts you may have on the process?

I would much appreciate it.

Many thanks in advance.



Update: So far I've installed two aft 818's and a 715. Here's my basic, draft step-by-step (pictures later):
1. removed all screws from outside trim rings. I chose to remove all the screws from all ports at once to save time. I saved these but am not going to reuse as the new trim rings (btw Bomar calls them "beauty rings") do not have screw holes.
2. removed interior screws. Save these as you should be able to reuse these.
3. tapped the tip of a flat head screwdriver into the interior, top aft corner of the portlight.
4. pried the frame with one small- and one medium-sized hammer, slowly. The speed with which the old silicone separates is non-negotiable, so use considerable force and some restraint so that you don't break the old frame. After the second portlight, I was able to remove them in about 5 minutes using this method.
5. cleaned the old caulk with a high speed vibratory tool with a three-quarter moon type flat scraper attachment. This takes a while, maybe 40 minutes. I sprayed water on my work and continued grinding away wherever it beaded up (silicon residue).
6. With a razor scraped clean the inside (cabin-side) and outside (deck-side).
7. gave it a final sand with 220 paper and an orbital palm sander.
8. dry fit the new portlights paying particular attention to the "beauty ring." The fitment of the portlight itself is OEM, perfect. However the drain holes are at an incorrect angle. Apparently there is nothing that can be done about this because only one angled option is offered. As for the "beauty ring," IT DOES NOT FIT PROPERLY. The issue is that the "beauty ring" does not lay flat with respect to the frame of the portlight. So that when it is installed, the "beauty ring" tends to want to come loose toward the top of the portlight on the deck-side. I called Bomar Grey about this and they tell me that the molds they use now are from the 90's and that they should fit fine. They don't. The fabrication of the trim ring is really sort of careless, and you can see all the excess molding (mold edges) around the edges of the ring. The excess plastic on the inside edge of the ring messes with proper fitment. Forcing me to do the next step:
9. With a small round fine metal file and a medium large fine metal file, I removed all the extra plastic on the inside edge of the "beauty ring." I also filed the inside top edge of the beauty ring which was pressing on the top edge of the portlight frame and preventing it from laying flat. All in all this part was disappointing. I am disappointed in the apparent carelessness with which these replacement ports were manufactured. Aside from that they look like they will hold up fine, if properly installed.
10. I put a fat bead of clear 100% silicone along the bottom and for and aft edges of the portlight. My core is made of plywood and dry, and I left it alone. I did not place any silicone on the cabin-side or deck-sides in this step.
11. Installed the new portlight by placing the bottom section in first, pushing in the top section and adding the top then the bottom screws. Visually inspected from the outside, then installed the rest of the screws.
12. filled up any remaining gaps with 100% silicone from the outside and built up the bead to be as flush as possible with the deck.
13. After about 20 minutes, added the beauty ring with a good bead of silicone on the back, pressing it in place and holding it there with wooden stakes clamped in place with 6- 5" c-shaped clamps.
14. After 2 hours, removed c-clamps and cleaned up excess silicone with a razor blade and pray to sea gods for no leaks.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,141
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
TMJB,

My experience and process for this project last year was very similar to what Paolex describes - with a few variations which may be helpful to you or others.

I had the same issue with the fit of the trim rings. Solved with the use of a small finish sander on the offending inside edges of the trim rings. I also had a few places where the cut out for the angled drain spigot was not deep enough at the outside face of the cabin top. A half inch diameter hasp fitting on my electric drill took care of that.

Some of my plywood core was damp, but I had the luxury of letting it dry out under shrink wrap through an exceptionally cold dry Chicago winter. Pulled the old portlites out in November after the boat was shrink wrapped, taped plastic over the openings with shrink wrap tape (Not masking tape.) top and sides to shed any water dripping through the shrink wrap at the rigging penetrations, left the bottom edges open for air circulation, placed a few Damp-Rid buckets in the cabin, and it was all bone dry by April when I put the new portlites in. I sealed all my plywood core with penetrating epoxy to protect it against future leaks. I personally think that the epoxy sealed plywood edges may provide a better bonding surface for the silicone than raw plywood, which can be kind of "fuzzy" for lack of a better word. I absolutely believe that plywood or balsa core should be sealed with epoxy at all penetrations. It's cheap insurance and doesn't take long to do.

Some of the original cabin top cutouts were unacceptably sloppy. The openings were tight in some places and so big in others that the screws had no bite into the plywood core. Since there was pretty consistently about a 3/16" gap between the cabintop and the interior fiberglass liner, I was able to epoxy in 3/16" x 1 1/4" strips of plywood reducing the effective opening size where needed to provide positive grip for the screws. I enlarged the openings where I did not see space for at least 1/8" of sealant between the portlite frame and the cabintop. Lots of test fitting. There where some hollows in the plywood core which I filled with thickened epoxy and there were also a few screw holes on the new portlites that where not in same location as the originals.

I used the Dow 795 structural silicone recommended by the portlite manufacturer. It's not ordinary silicone caulking. It's professional grade sealant used on building construction joints, and can be used in pretty low temperatures. You will not find it at Home Depot or the other big box stores, and West Marine has no idea what it is. Have to buy it on line or from a construction supply wholesaler. The outfit I found on line was called Mudd Supply. The price and delivery time seemed reasonable and they had the quantity I needed unlike the various eBay and Amazon sellers I came across selling just one or two tubes.

One great tip given to me by my yacht yard guys was to use masking tape liberally. Fit the portlite in place with a couple screws and mask every face of the portlite and cabintop where you don't want the silicone. Then pull the portlite, put a generous bead of sealant along the bottom edge (No sealant on the inside flange.), slide the unit in and down, put all the screws in, then inject the sealant around the top and sides from the outside, additional at the bottom if needed, work it in with a putty knife on all four sides to insure there are no bubbles or gaps, then scrape off the excess and pull off the tape. That seals the portlite to the cabintop. Repeat the same process with the trim ring. Maybe not necessary, but I also put a bead of sealant between the trim ring and the portlite thinking of that as an additional line of defense since the trim ring is already sealed to the cabintop with the same silicone. The masking tape saved a lot of clean up time and the results look professional.

I did all the work except the final install of the trim rings crawling around the deck under the shrink wrap, protected from the weather. I am happy with the results, no leaks the first year, fingers crossed for many more leak free seasons. Don't want to do it again anytime soon. My knees and back felt normal again after about two months.
 
Last edited:

tmjb

.
Mar 13, 2012
222
Hunter 36C Glen Cove
Happy New Year Dalliance.

Many thanks for the detailed response. I much appreciate it. I am planning to replace mine, some this coming season for sure, hopefully all before too long. Any chance you have some photos you could share?

I have a question about sealing the edges of the plywood with penetrating epoxy. I'm sure this has been covered many times elsewhere but I can't recall having read about it. I'm familiar with sealing the edge of the core at penetrations by removing what is adjacent to the penetration and filling back with thickened epoxy but this would be a huge task for the portlights given the extent of the exposed edges. How do you apply the penetrating epoxy? Do you just paint it on with a brush to seal the edge of the core?

One other question is what pricing you got from SBO for all ports? I suspect this not a permitted discussion in open forum and, if so, would you mind sharing via PM?


TMJB,

My experience and process for this project last year was very similar to what Paolex describes - with a few variations which may be helpful to you or others.

I had the same issue with the fit of the trim rings. Solved with the use of a small finish sander on the offending inside edges of the trim rings. I also had a few places where the cut out for the angled drain spigot was not deep enough at the outside face of the cabin top. A half inch diameter hasp fitting on my electric drill took care of that.

Some of my plywood core was damp, but I had the luxury of letting it dry out under shrink wrap through an exceptionally cold dry Chicago winter. Pulled the old portlites out in November after the boat was shrink wrapped, taped plastic over the openings with shrink wrap tape (Not masking tape.) top and sides to shed any water dripping through the shrink wrap at the rigging penetrations, left the bottom edges open for air circulation, placed a few Damp-Rid buckets in the cabin, and it was all bone dry by April when I put the new portlites in. I sealed all my plywood core with penetrating epoxy to protect it against future leaks. I personally think that the epoxy sealed plywood edges may provide a better bonding surface for the silicone than raw plywood, which can be kind of "fuzzy" for lack of a better word. I absolutely believe that plywood or balsa core should be sealed with epoxy at all penetrations. It's cheap insurance and doesn't take long to do.

Some of the original cabin top cutouts were unacceptably sloppy. The openings were tight in some places and so big in others that the screws had no bite into the plywood core. Since there was pretty consistently about a 3/16" gap between the cabintop and the interior fiberglass liner, I was able to epoxy in 3/16" x 1 1/4" strips of plywood reducing the effective opening size where needed to provide positive grip for the screws. I enlarged the openings where I did not see space for at least 1/8" of sealant between the portlite frame and the cabintop. Lots of test fitting. There where some hollows in the plywood core which I filled with thickened epoxy and there were also a few screw holes on the new portlites that where not in same location as the originals.

I used the Dow 795 structural silicone recommended by the portlite manufacturer. It's not ordinary silicone caulking. It's professional grade sealant used on building construction joints, and can be used in pretty low temperatures. You will not find it at Home Depot or the other big box stores, and West Marine has no idea what it is. Have to buy it on line or from a construction supply wholesaler. The outfit I found on line was called Mudd Supply. The price and delivery time seemed reasonable and they had the quantity I needed unlike the various eBay and Amazon sellers I came across selling just one or two tubes.

One great tip given to me by my yacht yard guys was to use masking tape liberally. Fit the portlite in place with a couple screws and mask every face of the portlite and cabintop where you don't want the silicone. Then pull the portlite, put a generous bead of sealant along the bottom edge (No sealant on the inside flange.), slide the unit in and down, put all the screws in, then inject the sealant around the top and sides from the outside, additional at the bottom if needed, work it in with a putty knife on all four sides to insure there are no bubbles or gaps, then scrape off the excess and pull off the tape. That seals the portlite to the cabintop. Repeat the same process with the trim ring. Maybe not necessary, but I also put a bead of sealant between the trim ring and the portlite thinking of that as an additional line of defense since the trim ring is already sealed to the cabintop with the same silicone. The masking tape saved a lot of clean up time and the results look professional.

I did all the work except the final install of the trim rings crawling around the deck under the shrink wrap, protected from the weather. I am happy with the results, no leaks the first year, fingers crossed for many more leak free seasons. Don't want to do it again anytime soon. My knees and back felt normal again after about two months.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,141
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
TMJB,

Sorry, I was trying not to write a book, but should have offered a little more detail. To answer your question, the epoxy is just brushed onto the exposed edges of the plywood core as you thought.
Also, re-reading my post, I see that I mis-spoke about the penetrating epoxy. I only used penetrating epoxy at the quarter berth portlite in the cockpit because there was some minor dry rot along the bottom edge and I wanted to consolidate the core material - poured into closely spaced drilled holes. I brushed on regular unthickened epoxy (West System) everywhere else.
 

tmjb

.
Mar 13, 2012
222
Hunter 36C Glen Cove
Thanks again Dalliance. I think the level of detail is just great.There are so many aspects to these projects its impossible to cover all. I hope you don't mind the questions.

That makes sense re the thickened and penetrating epoxy.