Just a bought a 86 hunter 25.5. It's my first monohaul so please excuse my dump questions. (Former NACRA 6.0 catamaran sailor). My top is awfull heavy to lift and I noticed when the top is up and I have the boat healed over hard, water is draining out of the top where the strut attaches. Is it possible for the pop top to retain rain water? I going to have a new main made and I am considering having it made with a free foot and I also want to develop a user friendlier outhaul system. Does anyone out there have a free foot main and have any suggestions on a better outhaul setup?
- Status
I also have water in my top...
Ted, Glad to hear that we have another 25.5er on the forum. To start I want to say that I really like this model boat. I think it is the best boat around for its size and cost. But you have touched on the one design issues of the boat that I really don't like. About the pop-top first I wanted to address your comment about having the top up when the boat is healed over, I don't believe the pop-top was designed to be "popped" while under way. I suppose it could damage the top but also as you say it is pretty heavy and could easily fall on someone. About the water, my top also retains water. Shortly after I bought the boat I noticed water dripping from the top out of one of the button-snap fitting for use with the canvas enclosure. What I have found is that the engineers at hunter in their infinite wisdom designed the companionway hatch groove to not drain water. Has any other 25.5er found a way to fix this? Does this happen on only my boat? So I constantly have standing water in my companionway hatch groove which I have found to be most annoying. But what has happened on my boat is that someone must have opened the hatch with a little too much finesse and the hatch banged a hole into the pop-top at the end of the groove. I noticed this when I removed the teak trim to re-finish it. So to fix the problem, I gouped marine-tex into the hole to seal it and I put rubber stoppers (like small furniture feet) at the end of the hatch groove in hopes that they would help to keep another hole from forming. The marine-tex will help but the standing water constantly on it I think will eventually weaken so another hole will be created the next time someone opens the hatch a little too hard. Does anyone know how to solve the standing water in the companion way hatch groove problem?
Ted, Glad to hear that we have another 25.5er on the forum. To start I want to say that I really like this model boat. I think it is the best boat around for its size and cost. But you have touched on the one design issues of the boat that I really don't like. About the pop-top first I wanted to address your comment about having the top up when the boat is healed over, I don't believe the pop-top was designed to be "popped" while under way. I suppose it could damage the top but also as you say it is pretty heavy and could easily fall on someone. About the water, my top also retains water. Shortly after I bought the boat I noticed water dripping from the top out of one of the button-snap fitting for use with the canvas enclosure. What I have found is that the engineers at hunter in their infinite wisdom designed the companionway hatch groove to not drain water. Has any other 25.5er found a way to fix this? Does this happen on only my boat? So I constantly have standing water in my companionway hatch groove which I have found to be most annoying. But what has happened on my boat is that someone must have opened the hatch with a little too much finesse and the hatch banged a hole into the pop-top at the end of the groove. I noticed this when I removed the teak trim to re-finish it. So to fix the problem, I gouped marine-tex into the hole to seal it and I put rubber stoppers (like small furniture feet) at the end of the hatch groove in hopes that they would help to keep another hole from forming. The marine-tex will help but the standing water constantly on it I think will eventually weaken so another hole will be created the next time someone opens the hatch a little too hard. Does anyone know how to solve the standing water in the companion way hatch groove problem?
Hollow Top
Ted, The standing water in the channel groove cannot be cured because of the forward slope of the groove.
The problem stems from a rubber stop for the sliding companionway that was mounted at the forward end of the groove by a simple screw. Thats where the water intrudes into the top and there is no way out! I discovered this when my poptop was too heavy to lift. I removed the top and drained it by drilling 1/4" weep holes on each side of the interior of the top at the lowest point. Before putting the top back on, I caulked the holes in the exterior groove. This caulking has had to be redone a couple of times so I have to put a plastic bucket on each side underneath the weep holes in case of leaks. I left the weep holes open because any water left inside during the winter could freeze, possibly cracking the top. Crude, but effective and I couldn't figure any other practical solution. What amazes me that the designers could have overlooked the obvious potential problem caused by screws that are going to be continuously bumped as the hatch is slid forward. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"
Ted, The standing water in the channel groove cannot be cured because of the forward slope of the groove.
The problem stems from a rubber stop for the sliding companionway that was mounted at the forward end of the groove by a simple screw. Thats where the water intrudes into the top and there is no way out! I discovered this when my poptop was too heavy to lift. I removed the top and drained it by drilling 1/4" weep holes on each side of the interior of the top at the lowest point. Before putting the top back on, I caulked the holes in the exterior groove. This caulking has had to be redone a couple of times so I have to put a plastic bucket on each side underneath the weep holes in case of leaks. I left the weep holes open because any water left inside during the winter could freeze, possibly cracking the top. Crude, but effective and I couldn't figure any other practical solution. What amazes me that the designers could have overlooked the obvious potential problem caused by screws that are going to be continuously bumped as the hatch is slid forward. Dick Vance H-25.5 "Honey Bear"LEAKS-LEAKS-LEAKS
BUY A NICE 1999 450 AND HAVE MORE EXPENSIVE LEAKS AND MUCH LARGER LIKE THAT NICE ARCH I GOT AND I NOW FIND ONE RIGHT OVER MY LAPTOP AND PRINTER.
BUY A NICE 1999 450 AND HAVE MORE EXPENSIVE LEAKS AND MUCH LARGER LIKE THAT NICE ARCH I GOT AND I NOW FIND ONE RIGHT OVER MY LAPTOP AND PRINTER.
weep hole location
Dick: The weep hole suggestion is great. I am going to do this also. I was looking at my top last night and it seemed to me that the lowest point on the top was on the port and starboard ridge on the bow side right before the each ridge makes the 90 turn into each other. Is that where you drilled your weep holes, right at that corner on the bow side? Thanks.
Dick: The weep hole suggestion is great. I am going to do this also. I was looking at my top last night and it seemed to me that the lowest point on the top was on the port and starboard ridge on the bow side right before the each ridge makes the 90 turn into each other. Is that where you drilled your weep holes, right at that corner on the bow side? Thanks.
To drill or not to drill
I posted about this same design shortcoming some time ago. The water in the hatch channel seems to pool at the forward end on my 1984 outboard model, although I have not experienced any interior leaks because of it. For those with inboards diesels, does the different weight distribution tend to cause the water to drain from the aft end of the hatch channel into the cockpit? If not, then the appropriate fix may be to drill a hole through the poptop into the forward end of the hatch channel at the lowest spot. Then fill with epoxy. When dry, drill a smaller diameter hole through the epoxy which will srve as a permanent drain hole of sorts. This would drain the standing water down the the side of the cabin in front of the ports. What do you think of this as a fix? I haven't tried it yet, but would be interested in your feedback. Scott
I posted about this same design shortcoming some time ago. The water in the hatch channel seems to pool at the forward end on my 1984 outboard model, although I have not experienced any interior leaks because of it. For those with inboards diesels, does the different weight distribution tend to cause the water to drain from the aft end of the hatch channel into the cockpit? If not, then the appropriate fix may be to drill a hole through the poptop into the forward end of the hatch channel at the lowest spot. Then fill with epoxy. When dry, drill a smaller diameter hole through the epoxy which will srve as a permanent drain hole of sorts. This would drain the standing water down the the side of the cabin in front of the ports. What do you think of this as a fix? I haven't tried it yet, but would be interested in your feedback. Scott
Inboards still have the same problem...
I have an inboard diesel and I have the same problem. Therefore on my boat the different weight distribution does not help enough. Scot, I have a few questions about your proposed fix. First you suggest drilling a hole in the hatch channel. Why then do you fill it with epoxy and then drill another hole? Is this to protect the fiberglass mat from seeping in water through the new hole? Second, as I described in my previous post I had a hole of sorts in my hatch channel, but the water did not drain as you describe. In fact the water pooled up inside until in reach a level where it could drain out the button-snap fittings. So far the only way that I know to get the water to drain is to put a hole at the lowest point in the top as Dick suggested and put buckets under the holes in the cabin. I wished the solution could be as simple and neat as you describe.
I have an inboard diesel and I have the same problem. Therefore on my boat the different weight distribution does not help enough. Scot, I have a few questions about your proposed fix. First you suggest drilling a hole in the hatch channel. Why then do you fill it with epoxy and then drill another hole? Is this to protect the fiberglass mat from seeping in water through the new hole? Second, as I described in my previous post I had a hole of sorts in my hatch channel, but the water did not drain as you describe. In fact the water pooled up inside until in reach a level where it could drain out the button-snap fittings. So far the only way that I know to get the water to drain is to put a hole at the lowest point in the top as Dick suggested and put buckets under the holes in the cabin. I wished the solution could be as simple and neat as you describe.
Two draining issues
Anthony: You're right. My proposed fix would only solve the problem of draining water as it collects in the hatch channel from rain, etc. It would not solve your immediate problem of a waterlogged poptop caused by the buildup of that water in the hatch channel over time. To drain the water out of the poptop, as opposed to draining it out of the channel groove, I believe you may have to do as Dick suggests. Once it is drained, I think the only way to keep it from happening again is to do something like I've proposed. And yes, filling with epoxy is to protect the core of what you are drilling into. At least you should be able to tackle it in that nice florida weather. Good Luck. Scott
Anthony: You're right. My proposed fix would only solve the problem of draining water as it collects in the hatch channel from rain, etc. It would not solve your immediate problem of a waterlogged poptop caused by the buildup of that water in the hatch channel over time. To drain the water out of the poptop, as opposed to draining it out of the channel groove, I believe you may have to do as Dick suggests. Once it is drained, I think the only way to keep it from happening again is to do something like I've proposed. And yes, filling with epoxy is to protect the core of what you are drilling into. At least you should be able to tackle it in that nice florida weather. Good Luck. Scott
That's The Spot
Anthony, That seems to be the right spot. The lowest point on each side at the forward end of the top. I'm not sure that drilling another hole in the channel, even if connected to a drain would be the best solution. The chafe from the sliding hatch disturbs the caulking and this would disturb the fix as well. The best solution would be to use some epoxy with microballoons to fill the hole, then epoxy a bumper, rubber or wood block, to act as a stop to keep the front of the sliding hatch from hitting the end of the channel. This is what the original screw and rubber bumper was intended to do. Pitiful how such a seemingly insignificant part can cause problems just because no attention was paid to it in the design phase. Dick
Anthony, That seems to be the right spot. The lowest point on each side at the forward end of the top. I'm not sure that drilling another hole in the channel, even if connected to a drain would be the best solution. The chafe from the sliding hatch disturbs the caulking and this would disturb the fix as well. The best solution would be to use some epoxy with microballoons to fill the hole, then epoxy a bumper, rubber or wood block, to act as a stop to keep the front of the sliding hatch from hitting the end of the channel. This is what the original screw and rubber bumper was intended to do. Pitiful how such a seemingly insignificant part can cause problems just because no attention was paid to it in the design phase. Dick
Just took care of mine
I have just gotten over having a bucket in my cabin. Problem, there were holes where the sliding hatch had broken through the forward ends of the sliding track. The previous owners had tried to fix with every kind of silicone and sealant, all to no avail. I removed the hatch, wood strips, filled the holes with epoxy putty, then covered this with bondo fiberglass filler, tapering from top edge down to bottom of channel, then glassed over with 3 coats of thin strips of fibergalass tape and resin. Sanded all and replaced wood strips with aluminum. No leaks anymore total cost less than 30 bucks. As to the problem of the track retaining water, yes there is no way around it, but just lift the forward end of the pop top and hold it up for a few seconds to allow the water to run aft before lifting it up. Yes you may still get a few drops of water into the cabin when the wind blows into the track, however this is not much. In case any 25.5 owners are wondering about replacing bulkheads, or cabin soles, I have also done mine recently as well.
I have just gotten over having a bucket in my cabin. Problem, there were holes where the sliding hatch had broken through the forward ends of the sliding track. The previous owners had tried to fix with every kind of silicone and sealant, all to no avail. I removed the hatch, wood strips, filled the holes with epoxy putty, then covered this with bondo fiberglass filler, tapering from top edge down to bottom of channel, then glassed over with 3 coats of thin strips of fibergalass tape and resin. Sanded all and replaced wood strips with aluminum. No leaks anymore total cost less than 30 bucks. As to the problem of the track retaining water, yes there is no way around it, but just lift the forward end of the pop top and hold it up for a few seconds to allow the water to run aft before lifting it up. Yes you may still get a few drops of water into the cabin when the wind blows into the track, however this is not much. In case any 25.5 owners are wondering about replacing bulkheads, or cabin soles, I have also done mine recently as well.
Plan on using a cover over hatch
I noticed that water was collecting in the tracks on the 25.5 I bought this fall after I took the shrinkwrap off. There was no evidence of leakage inside and the top was heavy but seemed to not be overly so. I figured it felt like about 70 lbs of force to lift.(How heavy should it be??) Right now I am on using a small 6'X 8' tarp cover over the hatch and companionway. This is bungied to the toe rails and stantions. It covers the forward edge and slightly extends over the cockpit bulkhead. It's not pretty but at least its quick to remove and will keep water from continuously sitting in the track. Its blue, Its ugly, but blocking the water from getting there in the first place may help.
I noticed that water was collecting in the tracks on the 25.5 I bought this fall after I took the shrinkwrap off. There was no evidence of leakage inside and the top was heavy but seemed to not be overly so. I figured it felt like about 70 lbs of force to lift.(How heavy should it be??) Right now I am on using a small 6'X 8' tarp cover over the hatch and companionway. This is bungied to the toe rails and stantions. It covers the forward edge and slightly extends over the cockpit bulkhead. It's not pretty but at least its quick to remove and will keep water from continuously sitting in the track. Its blue, Its ugly, but blocking the water from getting there in the first place may help.
another annual chore
Scott, Anthony, Dick, Thanks for the ideas. I dont think I can live with the bucket in the cabin thing. I think for now I'll take the top off,drain the water out and see how much collects over a years time. (I'm sure the top was never been drained by the previous owners) It may turn out that draining the top will be just one of those annual boat chores. The boat came with a dodger which covers the hatch/top and attaches to the bimini. The dodger may help keep water off the hatch rails... will have to see. Ted
Scott, Anthony, Dick, Thanks for the ideas. I dont think I can live with the bucket in the cabin thing. I think for now I'll take the top off,drain the water out and see how much collects over a years time. (I'm sure the top was never been drained by the previous owners) It may turn out that draining the top will be just one of those annual boat chores. The boat came with a dodger which covers the hatch/top and attaches to the bimini. The dodger may help keep water off the hatch rails... will have to see. Ted
fill 'er up
i found a way to fix the waterlogging... fill it with resin! i had that same problem and the standing water had caused some internal delamination. i removed the top, inverted it onto some sawhorses, drilled two small holes at each end of the unit and stood it on end to drain for the next two days. using a funnel, i also flushed acetone through it as acetone is a drying agent and prepared the top for my next step... filling it with resin. sounds crazy, but I used a funnel and filled the unit internally with resin until it was completely full. it added about 16 pounds of weight but water problems are a thing of the past and the top is MUCH stronger as the delaminated areas are oncwe again reinforced..
i found a way to fix the waterlogging... fill it with resin! i had that same problem and the standing water had caused some internal delamination. i removed the top, inverted it onto some sawhorses, drilled two small holes at each end of the unit and stood it on end to drain for the next two days. using a funnel, i also flushed acetone through it as acetone is a drying agent and prepared the top for my next step... filling it with resin. sounds crazy, but I used a funnel and filled the unit internally with resin until it was completely full. it added about 16 pounds of weight but water problems are a thing of the past and the top is MUCH stronger as the delaminated areas are oncwe again reinforced..
fill 'er up
i found a way to fix the waterlogging... fill it with resin! i had that same problem and the standing water had caused some internal delamination. i removed the top, inverted it onto some sawhorses, drilled two small holes at each end of the unit and stood it on end to drain for the next two days. using a funnel, i also flushed acetone through it as acetone is a drying agent and prepared the top for my next step... filling it with resin. sounds crazy, but I used a funnel and filled the unit internally with resin until it was completely full. it added about 16 pounds of weight but water problems are a thing of the past and the top is MUCH stronger as the delaminated areas are oncwe again reinforced..
i found a way to fix the waterlogging... fill it with resin! i had that same problem and the standing water had caused some internal delamination. i removed the top, inverted it onto some sawhorses, drilled two small holes at each end of the unit and stood it on end to drain for the next two days. using a funnel, i also flushed acetone through it as acetone is a drying agent and prepared the top for my next step... filling it with resin. sounds crazy, but I used a funnel and filled the unit internally with resin until it was completely full. it added about 16 pounds of weight but water problems are a thing of the past and the top is MUCH stronger as the delaminated areas are oncwe again reinforced..
- Status