I just finished applying the third coat after sanding between coats with 220 grit paper. I was very careful about dust and allowing sufficient time between sanding. I'm less than thrilled with the gloss finish ("indoor" application). A friend told me to use a cloth moistened with paint thinner and wipe down the finish. I've searched the archives & expert forums and don't see this mentioned anywhere. I've considered sanding again (400 grit?) and applying a fourth coat. What, if anything, should be done after the fourth coat? Will the thinner make the finish more glossy? Any advice will be appreciated.
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what is it about the finish that you don't like?
is it not glossy enough? too many specks in the finish? If the wood was very dry to begin with, more coats may be needed. your process sounds correct. Sand and then finish. The wipe down with mineral spirits in between is a good idea. I use a tack cloth...it works great...$.99 at home depot!
is it not glossy enough? too many specks in the finish? If the wood was very dry to begin with, more coats may be needed. your process sounds correct. Sand and then finish. The wipe down with mineral spirits in between is a good idea. I use a tack cloth...it works great...$.99 at home depot!
More Thinner, more Coats
If you want a really smooth and hardy finish, you should have thinned the poly. You should use a lot of thinner with the first coats and less as you apply more. You should sand between each coat and use a tacky cloth thinned with the appropriate solevent to remove all loose sanding grit. If you follow this process and apply about 10 coats, you will have a wonderful finish that will last for years.
If you want a really smooth and hardy finish, you should have thinned the poly. You should use a lot of thinner with the first coats and less as you apply more. You should sand between each coat and use a tacky cloth thinned with the appropriate solevent to remove all loose sanding grit. If you follow this process and apply about 10 coats, you will have a wonderful finish that will last for years.
Moisture
Harry, Moisture is the biggest problem with gloss. If you finished when there was high moisture, it will have a cloudy or hazy appearance. Sometimes that haze goes away but that is a 50/50 deal. r.w.landau
Harry, Moisture is the biggest problem with gloss. If you finished when there was high moisture, it will have a cloudy or hazy appearance. Sometimes that haze goes away but that is a 50/50 deal. r.w.landau
Try This!
Harry, I am not sure what you are finishing, but I just did some finishing. I used 400 grit then compound(silicone free) and then I used Perfect It from the auto store. It is a finer type compund almost like jeweler's rouge. You should see the shine! Try a small spot or a test piece first. Mike D
Harry, I am not sure what you are finishing, but I just did some finishing. I used 400 grit then compound(silicone free) and then I used Perfect It from the auto store. It is a finer type compund almost like jeweler's rouge. You should see the shine! Try a small spot or a test piece first. Mike D
Cabin sole varnish
I would suggest that: 1. 400 or even 600 grit should be used before the top coat. 2. Use a small hand spray to apply the final coat if you are worried about brush marks. That is what I did with two-part Interlux on the wood parts of my Tinker inflatable. 3.I used minwax single part urethane when I did my cabin sole and it has lasted for 8 years. Thanks Jim W
I would suggest that: 1. 400 or even 600 grit should be used before the top coat. 2. Use a small hand spray to apply the final coat if you are worried about brush marks. That is what I did with two-part Interlux on the wood parts of my Tinker inflatable. 3.I used minwax single part urethane when I did my cabin sole and it has lasted for 8 years. Thanks Jim W
dont feel like the lone ranger
i worked very hard on the floor of our 34 and finally gave up. i used minwax poly high gloss. tried everything including calling the factory. i always got pinhead size air bubbles that would not go away. practiced many times on the bilge cover but it would not go away. to me it should have laid down with no blemishes. i used 99cent brushes to 15dollar brushes. maybe alittle less than high gloss wouldnt show as much. a palm sander did help with the manual labor however. expecting perfection isnt easy. craig
i worked very hard on the floor of our 34 and finally gave up. i used minwax poly high gloss. tried everything including calling the factory. i always got pinhead size air bubbles that would not go away. practiced many times on the bilge cover but it would not go away. to me it should have laid down with no blemishes. i used 99cent brushes to 15dollar brushes. maybe alittle less than high gloss wouldnt show as much. a palm sander did help with the manual labor however. expecting perfection isnt easy. craig
Additional Ideas....
As a previous owner of an all-wood boat, I can empathize with the task of getting that perfect high gloss on your brightwork. Here are some thoughts: 1. More coats. If the finish you're varnishing over was bad or non-existent, then up to 10 to 12 coats (12 coats are required for bare wood) will be needed. Even with a good base, experts recommend that you varnish a MINIMUM of 4 THIN coats so that you get a durable protective coating on your wood. 2. Thin with Penetrol for the first few coats. Maybe a capful (tablespoon?) for each pint of varnish would be a good start. It's an old-school solvent that's usually associated with thinning paint, but it did wonders for me. It thinned the varnish so there wouldn't be any bubbles & allowed the varnish to really seep into the wood for a lasting finish. It also removes the "pull" you'll get on your brush if the varnish is too thick. As was stated earlier, thin less as you add additional coats. I hope this helps. Don't forget that this is an art, not a science. It takes a lot of practice & some trial & error, but in the end it's always worth it. Good Luck! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
As a previous owner of an all-wood boat, I can empathize with the task of getting that perfect high gloss on your brightwork. Here are some thoughts: 1. More coats. If the finish you're varnishing over was bad or non-existent, then up to 10 to 12 coats (12 coats are required for bare wood) will be needed. Even with a good base, experts recommend that you varnish a MINIMUM of 4 THIN coats so that you get a durable protective coating on your wood. 2. Thin with Penetrol for the first few coats. Maybe a capful (tablespoon?) for each pint of varnish would be a good start. It's an old-school solvent that's usually associated with thinning paint, but it did wonders for me. It thinned the varnish so there wouldn't be any bubbles & allowed the varnish to really seep into the wood for a lasting finish. It also removes the "pull" you'll get on your brush if the varnish is too thick. As was stated earlier, thin less as you add additional coats. I hope this helps. Don't forget that this is an art, not a science. It takes a lot of practice & some trial & error, but in the end it's always worth it. Good Luck! Allen Schweitzer s/v Drambuie C-30 Hull# 632
Wipe Down Solvent Needs to be Compatible
If your problem is about the dust specs this can be caused by a long cure time caused by adding too much thinner, cold temperatures (longer time to dry), and/or dust in the air (maybe from the forced air furnace?). In the summer when it's hotter and no heater is running (fewer air currents) there should be less dust (unless one lives in a dry and dusty area). Another posibility is if you're using a "satin finish" product the additive that creates the satin finish will cause 'dust specs'. Still another possibility - air bubbles. With varnish, unlike typical paints, you are NOT supposed to shake the can. Maybe the product you used has characteristics similar to varnish? If your question has to do with the chemical aspects of the finish then that's another problem. Manufacturers of paint systems almost always specify a "wipe-down solvent" and it's generally a very good idea to follow their directions. There can easily be incompatibility problems between chemicals and when there are problems one can contact the manufacturer about what when wrong and to seek a solution. When mixing products it becomes a grab bag as to what went wrong and manufacturers don't want to waste their time talking about it so you're on your own. Without a few more details it's hard to add much.
If your problem is about the dust specs this can be caused by a long cure time caused by adding too much thinner, cold temperatures (longer time to dry), and/or dust in the air (maybe from the forced air furnace?). In the summer when it's hotter and no heater is running (fewer air currents) there should be less dust (unless one lives in a dry and dusty area). Another posibility is if you're using a "satin finish" product the additive that creates the satin finish will cause 'dust specs'. Still another possibility - air bubbles. With varnish, unlike typical paints, you are NOT supposed to shake the can. Maybe the product you used has characteristics similar to varnish? If your question has to do with the chemical aspects of the finish then that's another problem. Manufacturers of paint systems almost always specify a "wipe-down solvent" and it's generally a very good idea to follow their directions. There can easily be incompatibility problems between chemicals and when there are problems one can contact the manufacturer about what when wrong and to seek a solution. When mixing products it becomes a grab bag as to what went wrong and manufacturers don't want to waste their time talking about it so you're on your own. Without a few more details it's hard to add much.
Wet-Dry Paper
400 grit paper is OK but 600 is better. Use wet-Dry paper and use it wet and wash it down thoroughly with water after then wipe down with a light coat of appropriate solvent for the varnish. Then apply a thinned coat of varnish to just restore the gloss removed by sanding. Do all this in as dustfree and draft free environment as possible. The thinned varnish will dry very quickly. If the piece consists of flat surfaces use a sanding block of hardened rubber (Home Depot). Even use a block on curved surfaces if possible. Gloss will be effected by the surface being as even as possible and that will only occur if the surface is carefully sanded.
400 grit paper is OK but 600 is better. Use wet-Dry paper and use it wet and wash it down thoroughly with water after then wipe down with a light coat of appropriate solvent for the varnish. Then apply a thinned coat of varnish to just restore the gloss removed by sanding. Do all this in as dustfree and draft free environment as possible. The thinned varnish will dry very quickly. If the piece consists of flat surfaces use a sanding block of hardened rubber (Home Depot). Even use a block on curved surfaces if possible. Gloss will be effected by the surface being as even as possible and that will only occur if the surface is carefully sanded.
varnishing sole/cabin floor
putting new floor/sole in cabin. holly/teak. advice on varnishing/or other finish for long term. if problems in finish being slippery, advice, please, to prevent.
putting new floor/sole in cabin. holly/teak. advice on varnishing/or other finish for long term. if problems in finish being slippery, advice, please, to prevent.
Be careful !
In your inquiry you did say you were using "polyurethane" but did not say what you were painting, the brand, or reason for painting. I am a paint guy and deal with this stuff all the time. Be careful "grooming" with chemicals, post application. Sanding and polishing can be done, but, any good polyurethane finish should not "need" it for gloss, and on a boat color sanding, as it is called, can be just too big of a job. You can learn plenty about application by brush, roller, and the art of "tipping" from your paint manufacturer or even the advisor sections in the West catalog. Stay safe as urethanes are not healthy by any means. Good luck.
In your inquiry you did say you were using "polyurethane" but did not say what you were painting, the brand, or reason for painting. I am a paint guy and deal with this stuff all the time. Be careful "grooming" with chemicals, post application. Sanding and polishing can be done, but, any good polyurethane finish should not "need" it for gloss, and on a boat color sanding, as it is called, can be just too big of a job. You can learn plenty about application by brush, roller, and the art of "tipping" from your paint manufacturer or even the advisor sections in the West catalog. Stay safe as urethanes are not healthy by any means. Good luck.
Harry, I did two soles in poly
and maintain them that way. We do have something in common, tho. The first one I did was Varathane (sp) in a low-emission water-based formula. It looked lousy and was awful to apply. Unsatisfactory gloss, too. I stripped it off and went back with marine varnish. Later, I tried Helmsman spar urethane and found its hint of color, consistency and flow superior. I have done the sole of my 40.5 also. I roll it on with a small roller and tip it with a foam brush. Rick D.
and maintain them that way. We do have something in common, tho. The first one I did was Varathane (sp) in a low-emission water-based formula. It looked lousy and was awful to apply. Unsatisfactory gloss, too. I stripped it off and went back with marine varnish. Later, I tried Helmsman spar urethane and found its hint of color, consistency and flow superior. I have done the sole of my 40.5 also. I roll it on with a small roller and tip it with a foam brush. Rick D.
For Brian & Rick
I'd welcome comments from both of you about a) whether to go urethane or varnish when redoing our cabin sole and b) what must we do with the existing variable varnished surface (bad to OK) if we choose urethane? Must it all come off? I'm truly uncertain whether to just recoat with varnish - it's looked nice and has worn pretty well; gloss spar varnish, I'm guessing - or go to a lot of extra work. Isn't the main driver for urethane its wearability? Gosh, one wonders just how many years *more* it could give than the 20 that this varnish has. Anyway, any coaching would surely be welcomed. Jack WHOOSH, lying St. Pete, FL
I'd welcome comments from both of you about a) whether to go urethane or varnish when redoing our cabin sole and b) what must we do with the existing variable varnished surface (bad to OK) if we choose urethane? Must it all come off? I'm truly uncertain whether to just recoat with varnish - it's looked nice and has worn pretty well; gloss spar varnish, I'm guessing - or go to a lot of extra work. Isn't the main driver for urethane its wearability? Gosh, one wonders just how many years *more* it could give than the 20 that this varnish has. Anyway, any coaching would surely be welcomed. Jack WHOOSH, lying St. Pete, FL
Jack, Good Question
I think the Helmsman brand spar urethane may be harder and have a tad more gloss. But, its a degree or two, not huge. One advantage is that you can touch up and it dries faster. Another is fewer coats required. I think you can put it over an existing varnish surface in good condition, but check the can, available at most retail paint vendors like Home Depo. Having said that, as you point out, the varnish did a great job for a long time. I only tried this stuff on smaller jobs and gradually tried it on larger ones. Still, there is nothing the matter with a (good) varnish. So, its a personal preference call I think. Rick D.
I think the Helmsman brand spar urethane may be harder and have a tad more gloss. But, its a degree or two, not huge. One advantage is that you can touch up and it dries faster. Another is fewer coats required. I think you can put it over an existing varnish surface in good condition, but check the can, available at most retail paint vendors like Home Depo. Having said that, as you point out, the varnish did a great job for a long time. I only tried this stuff on smaller jobs and gradually tried it on larger ones. Still, there is nothing the matter with a (good) varnish. So, its a personal preference call I think. Rick D.
Surrender to the experts 
)
Jack, Glad to help. Is your cabin sole wood? Is it actually varnished? When you say "bad to good" is the bad like all gone, to the substrate? only in some areas? Is there staining where it is worn off? In order to do a class job you need to start with a very sound surface...you be the judge of that (be honest, no one but you will know). If it is a "down to the wood" restoration there is a real good book (a fat paper back really) avialible from Gougeon Brothers Inc. that details varius procedures for the restoration of wooden boat surfaces. There is also an artical in Wooden Boat magazine on dealing with stained wood. It seems that an epoxy surface followed by a good polyurethane is the best choice for the long haul. The epoxy is great for adhesion and protection of the wood, even offering structural reinforcment, and the polyurethane topcoat provides exceptional gloss and protection from UV damage. Check it out.
)Jack, Glad to help. Is your cabin sole wood? Is it actually varnished? When you say "bad to good" is the bad like all gone, to the substrate? only in some areas? Is there staining where it is worn off? In order to do a class job you need to start with a very sound surface...you be the judge of that (be honest, no one but you will know). If it is a "down to the wood" restoration there is a real good book (a fat paper back really) avialible from Gougeon Brothers Inc. that details varius procedures for the restoration of wooden boat surfaces. There is also an artical in Wooden Boat magazine on dealing with stained wood. It seems that an epoxy surface followed by a good polyurethane is the best choice for the long haul. The epoxy is great for adhesion and protection of the wood, even offering structural reinforcment, and the polyurethane topcoat provides exceptional gloss and protection from UV damage. Check it out.
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