A while back I requested some help with getting my Catalina 27 wing keel to point better and got some great advise. Thanks to those who responded. I am getting better with the sails and have come into another issue. I have found out that I can point better and sail faster with just my 150 genoa. As soon as I put up my main I slow down .5 - 1 a full knot and have to fall off the wind 5-10 degrees. It is my understanding that there is a way to set the sails so they complement each other, but after several configurations still better with headsail alone. Wind was about 13-16 steady knots during the test. Need some advise. Thanks Gary
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Speed with main up
Gary-- There are some sail trim experts on this forum and I am not one of them. However, if you are losing speed after setting the mainsail, there's definitely a problem. Is your main trimmed too tightly, choking off air flow (i.e., stalled)? It could also be too flat, or blown out, with too much draft? The sails might also be cut differently, i.e. a full main and flat jib, or vice versa, so that the jib alone works well, but adding the main with the opposite cut means one sail is going to be overtrimmed while the other is trying to move you forward. I'd venture to say that the 150 genoa I have on my 84 Catalina 27 provides about 60% of the driving force, and the rest is provided by the main. The two sails work in conjunction with each other, and work to accelerate the flow through the slot between the sails. Adding the main ought to be adding .5 or 1.0 knots to your speed, not subtracting it. I'd recommend taking an experienced sailor along for a ride, and some advice. Best would be someone with their own C 27, but any experienced sailor, particularly a racer, can help you spot trim problems or other issues that are slowing you down. With regard to pointing, keep in mind that pointing the absolute highest you can is not always best or fastest, as speed drops off the higher you point. The optimum angle is determined by your best "velocity made good," or VMG, toward the wind (or the windward mark if you are racing). Pointing too high can be as detrimental as pointing too low. Good luck. Perhaps someone else can jump in with ideas. Randy
Gary-- There are some sail trim experts on this forum and I am not one of them. However, if you are losing speed after setting the mainsail, there's definitely a problem. Is your main trimmed too tightly, choking off air flow (i.e., stalled)? It could also be too flat, or blown out, with too much draft? The sails might also be cut differently, i.e. a full main and flat jib, or vice versa, so that the jib alone works well, but adding the main with the opposite cut means one sail is going to be overtrimmed while the other is trying to move you forward. I'd venture to say that the 150 genoa I have on my 84 Catalina 27 provides about 60% of the driving force, and the rest is provided by the main. The two sails work in conjunction with each other, and work to accelerate the flow through the slot between the sails. Adding the main ought to be adding .5 or 1.0 knots to your speed, not subtracting it. I'd recommend taking an experienced sailor along for a ride, and some advice. Best would be someone with their own C 27, but any experienced sailor, particularly a racer, can help you spot trim problems or other issues that are slowing you down. With regard to pointing, keep in mind that pointing the absolute highest you can is not always best or fastest, as speed drops off the higher you point. The optimum angle is determined by your best "velocity made good," or VMG, toward the wind (or the windward mark if you are racing). Pointing too high can be as detrimental as pointing too low. Good luck. Perhaps someone else can jump in with ideas. Randy
When in doubt ... let it out.
There are plenty of good books and articles on sail trim, it is an art and science. My first recommendations is to get some tell tails for both the Jib and the Main if you don't already have them. Learning to sail by the tell tails is fairly easy, but not easy to describe in words. But I do know that the best advice is when in doubt of the set of your main, let it out. Let it out until the luff starts to bulge. Then bring it in until that barely stops.
There are plenty of good books and articles on sail trim, it is an art and science. My first recommendations is to get some tell tails for both the Jib and the Main if you don't already have them. Learning to sail by the tell tails is fairly easy, but not easy to describe in words. But I do know that the best advice is when in doubt of the set of your main, let it out. Let it out until the luff starts to bulge. Then bring it in until that barely stops.
Jib Only
Gary: It is difficult to determine the cause of your problem from one paragraph so instead of starting in the middle of a situation I'll give you some basics to look at. First of all the C27 is a masthead rig and the engine of your boat is the jib (on a fractional rig it is the mainsail). Secondly, the first sail trimmed on a masthead rig is the jib and then you trim the main. The end result of this trimming process, when done correctly, is the boat goes faster not slower!! ALL the sail trim controls for the jib and main ONLY adjust 4 elements and they are DRAFT POSITION, DRAFT DEPTH (BELLY), TWIST and ANGLE OF ATTACK. In order for sail trim to make any sense you have to understand those 4 elements. You then have to learn how each sail trim control for the main and jib effect those for elements and what happens when you push or pull them. For example, the mainsail trim controls that are used to adjust TWIST are the boom vang and mainsheet. If you want to adjust angle of attack you use the traveler first and then the mainsheet. The ONLT element the traveler adjust is angle of attack but most sailors think it adjust everything. The bottom line is that something is off in your situation. Otherwise everyone with a masthead rig would be sailing with the jib alone and obviously that is not the case. The problem most beginner sailors have is they jump on the boat and raise the main and roll out the jib and that is it. Sail trim is very easy to understand when it is presented in simple English and in a step by step and logical manner. What I suggest you do is pop on over to the sail trim forum on this site and ask your questions there. There are a lot of guys on that forum that really know their onions about sail trim and they are more than willing to help you.
Gary: It is difficult to determine the cause of your problem from one paragraph so instead of starting in the middle of a situation I'll give you some basics to look at. First of all the C27 is a masthead rig and the engine of your boat is the jib (on a fractional rig it is the mainsail). Secondly, the first sail trimmed on a masthead rig is the jib and then you trim the main. The end result of this trimming process, when done correctly, is the boat goes faster not slower!! ALL the sail trim controls for the jib and main ONLY adjust 4 elements and they are DRAFT POSITION, DRAFT DEPTH (BELLY), TWIST and ANGLE OF ATTACK. In order for sail trim to make any sense you have to understand those 4 elements. You then have to learn how each sail trim control for the main and jib effect those for elements and what happens when you push or pull them. For example, the mainsail trim controls that are used to adjust TWIST are the boom vang and mainsheet. If you want to adjust angle of attack you use the traveler first and then the mainsheet. The ONLT element the traveler adjust is angle of attack but most sailors think it adjust everything. The bottom line is that something is off in your situation. Otherwise everyone with a masthead rig would be sailing with the jib alone and obviously that is not the case. The problem most beginner sailors have is they jump on the boat and raise the main and roll out the jib and that is it. Sail trim is very easy to understand when it is presented in simple English and in a step by step and logical manner. What I suggest you do is pop on over to the sail trim forum on this site and ask your questions there. There are a lot of guys on that forum that really know their onions about sail trim and they are more than willing to help you.
Mainsail trim info
Gary, There is nothing majic about sail trim but it does require a bit of learning. There are a number of controls that allow you to change the four elements of sail trim. Too much to go into in a reply to post. However there is a fantastic book available from Sail Trim Products company. It is about 40 pages and simply written and easily understood. It clearly explains Draft, Draft position, Angle of attack and Twist. The experts will tell you thats all you need to understand but they forget to mention "slot dynamics" accelaration, which I think is you problem as mentioned about slowing main. It explains what controls affect which elements and how to coordinate movements to get optimum performance. It is available at: http://sailtrimproducts.com/. It cost about $20.00 I have been sailing for many years and thought I knew it all but picked up a couple of tips I didn't know form the book.
Gary, There is nothing majic about sail trim but it does require a bit of learning. There are a number of controls that allow you to change the four elements of sail trim. Too much to go into in a reply to post. However there is a fantastic book available from Sail Trim Products company. It is about 40 pages and simply written and easily understood. It clearly explains Draft, Draft position, Angle of attack and Twist. The experts will tell you thats all you need to understand but they forget to mention "slot dynamics" accelaration, which I think is you problem as mentioned about slowing main. It explains what controls affect which elements and how to coordinate movements to get optimum performance. It is available at: http://sailtrimproducts.com/. It cost about $20.00 I have been sailing for many years and thought I knew it all but picked up a couple of tips I didn't know form the book.
Sail Trim
Gary: I'm the guy who wrote the book that Tony F is referring to!! You can buy it on this site also. My opinion is that you have to master the basics of sail trim before you can move on to the finer points. It is the same with kicking a soccer ball, golf or shooting a basketball - if you don't have the basics down pat you'll never be any good at it. Additionally, like in life, there is a step by step process and sequence you have to go through to set your mainsail and jib. In other words, you can't start at step 5, go to step 2. then to step 1 and so on and hope to get it right. Again, pop on over to the Sail Trim Forum on this site and ask your questions there. You'll get a lot of great advise from guys who really know what they are doing. Incidently, they learned it the hard way, by trial and error, and you can profit from their experiences.
Gary: I'm the guy who wrote the book that Tony F is referring to!! You can buy it on this site also. My opinion is that you have to master the basics of sail trim before you can move on to the finer points. It is the same with kicking a soccer ball, golf or shooting a basketball - if you don't have the basics down pat you'll never be any good at it. Additionally, like in life, there is a step by step process and sequence you have to go through to set your mainsail and jib. In other words, you can't start at step 5, go to step 2. then to step 1 and so on and hope to get it right. Again, pop on over to the Sail Trim Forum on this site and ask your questions there. You'll get a lot of great advise from guys who really know what they are doing. Incidently, they learned it the hard way, by trial and error, and you can profit from their experiences.
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