Pointing into the wind.......

Sep 3, 2017
12
Catalina 30 MK III Lake Pepin, WI
First, I consider myself a novice sailor despite having owned four boats over the years. Last fall I replaced my Precision 21 with a 1995 Catalina 30 MKIII. I was only able to sail it a few times before pulling it out for the season. Over the winter I had new sails made since the old ones were pretty blown out and showing signs of wear. At the recommendation of the sailmaker, he built a smaller genoa (I believe it’s a 110% instead of the original 135%) and cut the main about 6 - 10 inches shorter on the bottom so it wouldn’t rub and wear out the dodger like the old one.
I was sailing yesterday in 10 - 11 mph winds and the boat was really heeling. It’s tendency was to “point” directly into the wind and it took some muscle to keep the rudder such the boat would stay on a tack of approx 40 degrees. At one point, the wheel was turned all the way windward just to remain on course. Eventually I let out the sails which helped a bit.
My question: is this normal or am I doing something wrong or does the boat’s rigging need tuning? I don’t recall the boat responded this way when I bought it last fall.
You all have been very helpful since I bought the boat — thanks for all your assistance. Smooth sailing!
 
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SG

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
Who was your sailmaker?

I'm going to assume that your sailmaker did not mess-up the cut of your main in the way he trimmed 6-10" out of it. (e.g, make it too full) i.e., Did he just reduce the hoist, or did he just take it out of the mid-section, or did he just cut it out of the foot along the boom, or did he take a triangle out of the foot from the tack to the clew, or did he really redesign the sail?

Assuming that it's not the sail, per se, the usual answer, is that
  • You need to flatten the sail by
    • Increasing the outhaul tension (pull the clew back toward the boom end); and,
    • After use your vang to pull the boom down (if you have one); and/or
    • Ease the traveller out so as to not have the boom so close to the centerline of the boat; and then sheet in the main to help flatten it some more -- then ease out the traveler a bit more.
    • Finally, after you've done this, make sure the luff has enough tension (maybe some more cunningham, if you have one).
  • I don't know if it's this way with your main, but mains are cut "flatter" today then they used to be for cruising boats decades ago. Let the tell tails let you know if you're getting good flow.
  • Easing the sail out a little, except in the lighter air is probably the easiest think to do.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
What you are describing is weather helm. Most all boats have it to some level. It is a desired trait in moderation. Preferably to lee helm where the boat wants to turn away/down wind.
Your description is one of excess.
Sail trim and rigging trim affects the level of weather helm. When the boat is in balance there should be a little weather helm. But the boat should be sailing almost on her own.

New sails usually require you to adjust your trim. I would ask the sail maker to visit the boat and help trim the boat to your new “his design” cut sails.
 
Jun 8, 2004
2,841
Catalina 320 Dana Point
Your description is the definition of "weather helm" or "overpowered", you should be able to sail in winds up to about 20 kts with a 110 without such "rounding up" of the boat.
I'm a little fuzzy on how or why a sailmaker would shorten the main by that much, but it sounds like the main is underpowered.
 

FDL S2

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Jun 29, 2014
469
S2 7.3 Fond du Lac
This is a dumb question, but... The boat wants to point into the wind - weather helm- but you had to turn the wheel all the way windward to keep it going where you wanted-isn't that lee helm?
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
If the boat wants “Point into the wind” then it is exhibiting weather helm.
 
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Nov 8, 2007
1,523
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
First, I recommend a sailing course. You will enjoy, and profit greatly from a good one. There are also some good books to help you learn sailing skills. Sailing for Dummies comes to mind.

Here is a procedure to get you sailing reasonably well into the wind.

With the engine on, raise the main only. Once it is up, motor slowly directly into the wind and note the boats heading. Say it’s 270, a west wind.

Put the traveler a little left of center, and snug the main sheet

Then come left to a course 60 degrees off the wind, 210 in this case.

Move the traveler slowly downwind (to the port side) until the telltales at the back of the main are streaming aft. Now your main is set to sail this course.

Now hoist/unfurl your 110 genny. Trim it as tight as you can while keeping it off the spreaders and the standing rigging. Steer slowly back into the wind until the inside telltales at the luff of the genny are streaming most of the time, ( they will be streaming all the time when you start) and the genny is not luffing.

Now, the main will be luffing. Move the traveler upwind (right) until the main fills. The main telltales should be streaming aft.

Now you are sailing close hauled. Sail around this course for a while, steering to keep the telltales on your genny streaming back 70-80% of the time. (They may flutter as the boat rides through the waves.) On this course, you should have mild weather helm.

Ease off the course 10 to 15 degrees downwind. Now pick and steer a course. Ease the genny sheet until the telltales are streaming 70-80% of the time once more. Move the traveler downwind until the main telltales are streaming aft. Once the traveler is fully downwind, you will need to ease the main sheet to get the telltales streaming aft.

If the boat has excessive weather helm during this maneuver, I recommend getting some help from a knowledgeable sailor. There may be problems with the setup of your sail, or your mast may not be properly raked. If your sailmaker is local, ask his advice.

Good luck!
 
Jul 6, 2013
221
Catalina 30TR, Atomic 4 2480 Milwaukee
Mike,
I think you’ll love your boat once you get a few kinks worked out.
Just by comparison, I have a tall rig with a furling jib, so quite a bit more sail area than you have.
10-11 knots with a full main and 110% jib would be very comfortable sailing. I wouldn’t have much heeling or weather helm to deal with. Above 15 knots, I would reef the main and maybe the jib.
So, giving credit to your sailmaker for a good design, I think the problem has to be in the sail trim. First, I would go through full tuning of the standing rigging, for a known starting point.
I have found the traveler on the C30 to be very effective in reducing heel and weather helm. As others have said, get the main flat, and use the traveler to adjust the angle to the wind. Sheet the jib in just to the point of luffing, then ease it out a little.
Regarding steering, there’s some confusion about whether you meant windward or leeward, but either way, going all the way to the stops puts the rudder perpendicular to the boat centerline. There’s a lot of braking going on with that. That would be 2 full turns of the wheel. One full turn makes a very tight turning radius. So, steer less and be patient for your big boat to swing around.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Drop the traveler down until the boat sails upright. Then use the mainsheet to get all the telltales flowing.... i.e set your twist. Trim the headsail to take out the rest of the weather helm.
 
Apr 18, 2012
45
Catalina 400 MKI 67 LaSalle,Mi
Also read up on how to adjust your head sail sheet blocks. It can make a big difference in how the boat sails in higher winds.
 
Sep 3, 2017
12
Catalina 30 MK III Lake Pepin, WI
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I was finally able to get back down to my boat this weekend and implement the various ideas that were offered. The winds weren’t very strong but regardless, the boat seemed to sail better. I’m excited to use the tips when the winds whip up again.
Smooth sailing,
Mike
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Mike: The C30 is a very forgiving boat but I was in your situation many years ago and it was very frustrating mainly because I had no idea what I was doing. The C30 has the following controls for the mainsail- traveler, mainsheet, halyard, outhaul, boom vang, cunningham (maybe) and leech cord. All these sail trim controls must work together and there are particular settings for each control for each point of sail and wind condition. If they don't work together it's like shifting a sports car into 2nd gear, flooring the accelerator and then pulling up the emergency brake!! The jib controls consist of the jib sheets, halyards, fairleads. They also have to work together and finally all the sail trim controls for the mainsail & jib must work together or the boat becomes unhappy and does things you don't want it to do, like point into the wind. My suggestion is for you to learn the function of all the controls and what elements they are adjusting. It's not complicated stuff and I could almost explain it to you over the phone - that's how simple it is. Once you complete that assignment sail trim becomes a snap. Without the understanding of what the controls are adjusting you're just guessing and probably working against yourself.
 
Jun 19, 2004
365
Island Packet IP 32 99 Forked River, NJ
If the wind was only 10 knots or so, I can't believe you were overpowered. I believe it has to be trim related. As Dave has mentioned, I'd look at the mast take too.