I am the new owner of a Catalina 380. I have raced on a J35 for the past 4 years and I am used to being able to point high. I participated in a "fun" race only to discover that my boat did not point as high into the wind as most others. What adjustments can I make to help improve the pointing ability of my boat or do all 380s not point very well?
Pointing ability
- Thread starter Bluewater Sailor
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Hi, and welcome to our little corner of the world. You have a great boat. I am, however, sure that when you bought it you recognized that you were changing worlds, perhaps not as drastic as from a rocket ship to a VW beetle, but you get the drift. When we had our C22 in the '80s, we used to race against a J24, but it was never really a race even with handicaps in PHRF (also fun Lake races).
The obvious things to look for are the condition of the sails. You don't say how old the boat is or what condition they are in.
That said, the C380 has a plethora of sail controls and one of the things that Catalina has always done right is to provide very good sail control hardware (Garhauer) and beefy (wide traveler, good sized blocks, etc.).
Next step are the jib controls. Most folks I know "swear by" their Garhauer jib fairlead adjustment systems. You don't say how big your jib is, but if it's over a stock working jib (110%), that will appreciably aid in adjusting the jib fairlead when beating and outboard tracks on the "gunnel" help when going downwind.
Also, based on a recent thread on the Sail Trim forum here, do you have a complete set of telltales on your main and jib?
Finally, "what" were you racing against?
Those are the basics. What do you have?
The obvious things to look for are the condition of the sails. You don't say how old the boat is or what condition they are in.
That said, the C380 has a plethora of sail controls and one of the things that Catalina has always done right is to provide very good sail control hardware (Garhauer) and beefy (wide traveler, good sized blocks, etc.).
Next step are the jib controls. Most folks I know "swear by" their Garhauer jib fairlead adjustment systems. You don't say how big your jib is, but if it's over a stock working jib (110%), that will appreciably aid in adjusting the jib fairlead when beating and outboard tracks on the "gunnel" help when going downwind.
Also, based on a recent thread on the Sail Trim forum here, do you have a complete set of telltales on your main and jib?
Finally, "what" were you racing against?
Those are the basics. What do you have?
Yes, I have entered a new world, however now I can experience the best of both and although I thought I might regret my decision, I am LOVING my boat (and so does my family). In answer to your questions... (I failed miserably in giving any details didn't I? Although I thought maybe I was just experiencing wishful thinking and would have to get used to not pointing high)
My boat is a 1997 and the sails are the same...they are in good condition for their age, and have been inspected by a sailmaker here who has said they are good for several seasons. the genoa is 150%. Sail controls are Garhauer like you mentioned. Love them!
I have complete telltales on the genoa, but unfortunately none on the main (which is on an inmast furler- trying to adjust to that. I've been told that I should "bag" my main more than I would on a battened main - anyone have any views on this?) I am a much better helmsman if I sail by feel.
As far as what I was racing against, it was a variety of boats...C&Cs, Cals, O'days, Cats, Catalinas, etc. The race was a fun series race for cruisers and new racers; nothing serious. The interesting thing was that I was assigned a PHRF rating of 132 which was the same as a C&C 35 here which is rigged to race. I've got a wing keel and 2 furled sails. I'm not sure how on earth I am supposed to compete against that...esp. when he outpoints me by at least a good 10 degrees. My boat seems to sail best at 55 degrees off the wind...anything closer and my telltales are dancing and the boat begins to stall. Someone please tell me she can do better than that?
My boat is a 1997 and the sails are the same...they are in good condition for their age, and have been inspected by a sailmaker here who has said they are good for several seasons. the genoa is 150%. Sail controls are Garhauer like you mentioned. Love them!
I have complete telltales on the genoa, but unfortunately none on the main (which is on an inmast furler- trying to adjust to that. I've been told that I should "bag" my main more than I would on a battened main - anyone have any views on this?) I am a much better helmsman if I sail by feel.
As far as what I was racing against, it was a variety of boats...C&Cs, Cals, O'days, Cats, Catalinas, etc. The race was a fun series race for cruisers and new racers; nothing serious. The interesting thing was that I was assigned a PHRF rating of 132 which was the same as a C&C 35 here which is rigged to race. I've got a wing keel and 2 furled sails. I'm not sure how on earth I am supposed to compete against that...esp. when he outpoints me by at least a good 10 degrees. My boat seems to sail best at 55 degrees off the wind...anything closer and my telltales are dancing and the boat begins to stall. Someone please tell me she can do better than that?
I agree about the sails, but this in not by any means serious racing...just a fun race for those of us who don't have racing boats and those racers who just want to go out for an extra. I do not enter my boat in any of the "real" races. I really wouldn't be that concerned except for if planning a trip, I'd like to be able to make better course.
Although my sails are older, the genoa does hold her shape quite well close-hauled...I don't think that's the issue...any other adjustments I can make to improve this?
Although my sails are older, the genoa does hold her shape quite well close-hauled...I don't think that's the issue...any other adjustments I can make to improve this?
...any other adjustments I can make to improve this?
Get them to correct your PHRF - that's simply not fair!
Get them to correct your PHRF - that's simply not fair!
Not sure You can get a better rating than that !!! ... I did a quick search of PHRF ratings and found this: http://www.sailingjoy.com/phrf/index/page:53
Congratulations. We are also new owners of a '98 380 with original sails, having had a C&C 29Mk II before with fantastic pointing ability. We haven't raced yet, but in casual sailing we see a few things. It took a lot of effort to get the main up tight and the outhaul back tight. Then, due to the cruising cut and the age, to point on a windy day we had the boom over the center line - so about 25 to 30 degrees, no genoa up and loosing some speed due to boom position. But it confirms in our mind that when we get a good main, it will point and drive. The genoa is another story. When we had it sheeted in tight, the top rubs on the upper shroud. Loosening it off, we were then quite a ways off from the lower spreader. We definitely need a new genoa to point - this one achieves 50 degrees. Could all be a good topic for the 380 org site. We looked at a 380 fro '97 that still had original sails but had them recut to take out those cruising bellies. Might be a short term solution while the budget recovers.
I think shoal or wing keels can point as high as deep fin keels. The difference is that you slide to leeward. But in terms of apparent wind angle when pointing - shouldn't be a difference. So, when racing the fin keel will require less tacking to make the windward mark versus a shorter keel, but that's not the definition of pointing.
100% correct. it is a common misconception that a fin keel will point better than a bulb wing / shoal draft keel (all other things being equal). they both point exactly the same, but the fin keel will use the extra surface area to convert side force and generate a little more forward speed and lift while the bulb wing / shoal draft will fore go that slight forward speed edge and slip to leeward a bit more.
If you look at the boats COG tracks on GPS the fin keel will have a better VMG on upwind legs, but if you compared the heading the helmsman steered for both boats, they would be identical.
In short a fin keel will make a upwind mark with fewer tacks and a little faster, but it technically isn't because they point any better, but because they don't get blown off course quite as much...
The J 35 is a totally different design then the Catalina 380. The J boat is designed for racing & performance with a deeper draft more agressive rudder & hull design, etc.
The C380 is a heavy cruiser, with emphasis on the heavy & cruiser. But the answer was already given when "Bluewater" stated that he has in mast main furling. This can only be achieved with vertically mounted battons to allow the sail to furl, which sacrificies key traits necessary in a good mainsail design - namely having full horizontally mounted battons installed to maintain the correct sail curvature. Its really not a fair comparison between the C380 & a J35. Although newer racing jib & main will always improve performance, but at a steep cost. Many cruisers use seperate racing sails for performance & racing only. Then use your original sails for cruising, as racing mylar type sails can't take the punishment of cruising duty. My 2 c worth.
The C380 is a heavy cruiser, with emphasis on the heavy & cruiser. But the answer was already given when "Bluewater" stated that he has in mast main furling. This can only be achieved with vertically mounted battons to allow the sail to furl, which sacrificies key traits necessary in a good mainsail design - namely having full horizontally mounted battons installed to maintain the correct sail curvature. Its really not a fair comparison between the C380 & a J35. Although newer racing jib & main will always improve performance, but at a steep cost. Many cruisers use seperate racing sails for performance & racing only. Then use your original sails for cruising, as racing mylar type sails can't take the punishment of cruising duty. My 2 c worth.
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