Pogo this, pogo that.....
- Thread starter Jackdaw
- Start date
Well the 243 and Melges 32 (no such thing as a 30) have similar performance profiles, but are totally different boats. Both are sub-30 foot pure racing day-boats, with absolutely no accommodation below. They feature sail-caves, not comfortable space for 6 to cross oceans. And staying on plane requires to concentration of a full racing crew. Now so on the Pogo, which only asks you hold your cocktail in one hand while you blast away at 15+ knots.
Thanks 
Actually there WAS a 30 - turned into a 32 after a few years. And yes, accomodations below are... spartan (you can tell by the fact that there aren't ANY pics of the interior of a Melges 32!). The Pogo sleeps 6? My Ontario 32 only sleeps 4 comfortably. But then, my (and my Lady's) idea of comfort may vary from yours...
I mentioned the 243 cuz it's kind of a wierdo: the 242 and 244 are both racer/cruisers (I know several folks who've cruised Desolation Sound extensively in a 242), but as you say the 243 is a dinghy.
And yes, they are pure racing sleds. Just wondering which would be faster, the Melges or the Pogo...
druid
Actually there WAS a 30 - turned into a 32 after a few years. And yes, accomodations below are... spartan (you can tell by the fact that there aren't ANY pics of the interior of a Melges 32!). The Pogo sleeps 6? My Ontario 32 only sleeps 4 comfortably. But then, my (and my Lady's) idea of comfort may vary from yours... I mentioned the 243 cuz it's kind of a wierdo: the 242 and 244 are both racer/cruisers (I know several folks who've cruised Desolation Sound extensively in a 242), but as you say the 243 is a dinghy.
And yes, they are pure racing sleds. Just wondering which would be faster, the Melges or the Pogo...
druid
Druid,
Ah yes the M30... I think they called it that for like 4 hulls before the do-over and renaming the 32. I've only seen one in my life. It's actually 32 feet long. Strange.
The pogo is huge downstairs. Your 32 would fit totally inside with room to spare. And very comfortable.
As they all plane, each could probably get into the 20s. The pogo could do it however while you prepared and ate a full hot dinner!
Ah yes the M30... I think they called it that for like 4 hulls before the do-over and renaming the 32. I've only seen one in my life. It's actually 32 feet long. Strange.
The pogo is huge downstairs. Your 32 would fit totally inside with room to spare. And very comfortable.
As they all plane, each could probably get into the 20s. The pogo could do it however while you prepared and ate a full hot dinner!
For some reason I thought the Pogo was a 30 - I see it's a 40, so yeah, 6 people easy. I knew a woman that crewed in an all-woman crew on a Santa Cruz 50 in the Trans-Pac: probably the ORIGINAL ultralight flat-bottom sleds. I hear they kinda pound upwind but ya gotta love them off the wind!
druid - ok, I'm admit it: I'm jealous!
druid - ok, I'm admit it: I'm jealous!
I think MY favourite go-fast is the J/109. Not as fast off the wind as the ultralight sleds, but punches upwind much better. Here's a vid of Astal Plane doing 16 knots without a spinnaker. This is my "stomping grounds" although I admit I've never been out in over 40 knots. Also note the boat towards the end (55 knots) sailing jib-only.
And just to go WAY off-topic (to a topic on another thread... ) here's another one in the same race - note at the end they're sailing upwind in 55 knots jib-only.
druid
And just to go WAY off-topic (to a topic on another thread...
) here's another one in the same race - note at the end they're sailing upwind in 55 knots jib-only.druid
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Nice find. That's a great video!I think MY favourite go-fast is the J/109. Not as fast off the wind as the ultralight sleds, but punches upwind much better. Here's a vid of Astal Plane doing 16 knots without a spinnaker. This is my "stomping grounds" although I admit I've never been out in over 40 knots. Also note the boat towards the end (55 knots) sailing jib-only.
And just to go WAY off-topic (to a topic on another thread...
druid
The 109 is not that fast a boat however.. Like most Js designed as an all-arounder. Way too heavy to be a planer. Rates within seconds of our First 36.7. And the 12.50 will tear it up upwind. But admittably with more noise.
In the vid 10 knots average in the jib run, falling off waves gives you the bigger numbers. Hell our 260 would be going faster.
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;-)For some reason I thought the Pogo was a 30 - I see it's a 40, so yeah, 6 people easy. I knew a woman that crewed in an all-woman crew on a Santa Cruz 50 in the Trans-Pac: probably the ORIGINAL ultralight flat-bottom sleds. I hear they kinda pound upwind but ya gotta love them off the wind!
druid - ok, I'm admit it: I'm jealous!
The the Pogo 30 is smaller, and really a couples's boat. Same performance parameters as the 12.50. Planes in 14 knots. Very very easy to sail, and sail fast.
When do you open you dealership? There are a lot of interesting French boats. Here is a blog devoted to interesting sailboats, lots of them are French http://interestingsailboats.blogspot.com
That's a great blog!
The French are in love with sailing at a cultural level. It's like baseball here. In the USA you can break the ice with a stranger by asking 'how about those Cubs'. You can talk for hours. In France they'll say 'What's up with Groupama'?? Same thing. Big sailors are national celebrities. Even mid-pack sailors are known.
What's also interesting is that there is like ONE lake in France. All other sailing is done on the ocean, and a wild one at that. Makes for great sailors, and great boats as well.
I've been passed by Astral Plane (like I was standing still!) - she's not THAT slow!Nice find. That's a great video!
The 109 is not that fast a boat however.. Like most Js designed as an all-arounder. Way too heavy to be a planer. Rates within seconds of our First 36.7. And the 12.50 will tear it up upwind. But admittably with more noise.
In the vid 10 knots average in the jib run, falling off waves gives you the bigger numbers. Hell our 260 would be going faster.
Staying "on step" is difficult in those waves, but I admit she's not a "sled" (ie has some hull shape other than "flat"). I like that she's more of an "all-rounder" - kinda the replacement for C&C's.How did you like ICON? Custom-made carbon fibre 45-ft'er out of Seattle. I love it that they were still flying the kite in 35+. Reminds me of the time I was single-handing my Cal 25 and saw a bunch of boats flying kites, so I thought "what the hell..." Much chaos, rope-burn, spinster ended up wrapped nicely around the forestay... then I realized it was blowing 25 or so and the guys with the kites were the Southern Straits fleet (ie nuts!).
druid
Here is some more info from an owner down in Aus. He has a thread over at SA about his Pogo 12.5. This is what he posted over at SN after I asked him about people's opinion on the "cold spartan interior" and to also give his thoughts on how she sails.
Hi CB,
Hmmm...where to start? Lets pick on the interior. I can understand how people might balk at the lack of headlining and the spartan feel. Aside from the electronics, you could almost hose out the interior. Personally I love it. I am 6"1", and you have headroom throughout the main cabin, and in the forrard and rear berths there is an area to get changed that is also standing headroom. The exposed thwarts I thought would cause a few stubbed toes for my wife and kids, but I am happy to report nobody has even mentioned them, and no stumbles to date. I have been pleasantly surprised at the level of well thought out detail, there is a host of little things that are not immediately obvious that really make her a pleasurable experience for live aboard comfort.
On hot days with all the hatches closed she can get a bit hot and stuffy below, open the hatches and the change is immediate. The berths are massive, all have inbuilt lee cloths which you need due to their size, and the standard berth matresses are super comfortable. We have had a maximum of 9 on board to date with 7 sleeping at once, and we didn't feel crowded at all. There is a fair degree of noise in the cabin when sheets are loaded up and being used.
Sailing...is just captivating. Loads of power from 8 knots and above. My options list included dual heads, and dual wheels instead of the tiller, so I need 14 knots TWS to start planing (standard boats are high 13's).
The big surprise for me was the windward performance, I had heard all sorts of horror stories! Pointing angles are surprising, if you want to she'll hold 37 deg TWA, but her optimum angles seem to be 45-50. With the staysail up instead of the headsail, she points like a demon, we were sailing comfortably at low 30's TWA.
As wind increases, the best method to date I have found is to ignore the tell tails and steer off the heel angle, About 20 degrees is optimal speed, you get a noticeable lift in speed and can feel her lean against the chine and accelerate in the puffs.
You can overpower the rudders by oversheeting the traveller, but to date we have not even come close to losing control . My 13 yo can steer her without any round up's or broaches, its easier to sail than my old 26'.
it is a wide groove for the helmsman, and there is a stable almost rocklike feel to that beam that makes it such a joy to sail.
If I could summarise, this is a keeper. Fun, fast, stable and most of all, a ton of fun to sail! Can't thank Structures enough, they have built everything I wanted and delivered even more than I expected.
Hope this helps!
SB
So yeah, between talking to Jackdaw over beers about his experiences and reading this, I absolutely want (need) to get a ride on one of these beauties.
Hi CB,
Hmmm...where to start? Lets pick on the interior. I can understand how people might balk at the lack of headlining and the spartan feel. Aside from the electronics, you could almost hose out the interior. Personally I love it. I am 6"1", and you have headroom throughout the main cabin, and in the forrard and rear berths there is an area to get changed that is also standing headroom. The exposed thwarts I thought would cause a few stubbed toes for my wife and kids, but I am happy to report nobody has even mentioned them, and no stumbles to date. I have been pleasantly surprised at the level of well thought out detail, there is a host of little things that are not immediately obvious that really make her a pleasurable experience for live aboard comfort.
On hot days with all the hatches closed she can get a bit hot and stuffy below, open the hatches and the change is immediate. The berths are massive, all have inbuilt lee cloths which you need due to their size, and the standard berth matresses are super comfortable. We have had a maximum of 9 on board to date with 7 sleeping at once, and we didn't feel crowded at all. There is a fair degree of noise in the cabin when sheets are loaded up and being used.
Sailing...is just captivating. Loads of power from 8 knots and above. My options list included dual heads, and dual wheels instead of the tiller, so I need 14 knots TWS to start planing (standard boats are high 13's).
The big surprise for me was the windward performance, I had heard all sorts of horror stories! Pointing angles are surprising, if you want to she'll hold 37 deg TWA, but her optimum angles seem to be 45-50. With the staysail up instead of the headsail, she points like a demon, we were sailing comfortably at low 30's TWA.
As wind increases, the best method to date I have found is to ignore the tell tails and steer off the heel angle, About 20 degrees is optimal speed, you get a noticeable lift in speed and can feel her lean against the chine and accelerate in the puffs.
You can overpower the rudders by oversheeting the traveller, but to date we have not even come close to losing control . My 13 yo can steer her without any round up's or broaches, its easier to sail than my old 26'.
it is a wide groove for the helmsman, and there is a stable almost rocklike feel to that beam that makes it such a joy to sail.
If I could summarise, this is a keeper. Fun, fast, stable and most of all, a ton of fun to sail! Can't thank Structures enough, they have built everything I wanted and delivered even more than I expected.
Hope this helps!
SB
So yeah, between talking to Jackdaw over beers about his experiences and reading this, I absolutely want (need) to get a ride on one of these beauties.
Fun Pogo story, a friend just took delivery of a Pogo 50 and sailed from Brittany to Greece (pix below). Said it was the most amazing enjoyable, comfortable sail he's every had. As it was a delivery/shakedown, they didn't push the boat. But:
1) Top sustained speed: 21.5 knots.
2) AVERAGE speed to sail 320nm across the bay of Biscay (1/2 upwind) 11.5 knots!
Amazing.
1) Top sustained speed: 21.5 knots.
2) AVERAGE speed to sail 320nm across the bay of Biscay (1/2 upwind) 11.5 knots!
Amazing.
I was turned on to POGO Structures a couple years back when I was researching boats with lifting keels. On of my 'must haves' is the ability to gunkhole because I'm too stingy to always pay dock or mooring fees, while the pleasure of solitude cannot be overstated.
I will give credit where credit is due, I really enjoy Jack Daw's posts, links, and experiences about the Pogo 12.5, makes appreciate the boat's numerous attributes beyond the swing keel.
I will give credit where credit is due, I really enjoy Jack Daw's posts, links, and experiences about the Pogo 12.5, makes appreciate the boat's numerous attributes beyond the swing keel.