PNW Cold Weather

[Full Circle 473]

What are you locals doing to protect your boats in this unusual weather? I was surprised to find the water in the Everett marina freezing the last couple of days. Onboard, I found that the faucets were frozen. I have the West Marine dryiers going full time. The driers did not raise the temperature inside the boat above freezing. In addition, I have now put three 100 watt lamps on board. These are on full time to heat the interior. Last night, after installing the lights, the temperature inside the boat was 34 degrees. All water systems were good. I don't like the idea of having an electric heater going full time (fire hazard). What are you doing to combat the cold weather and are there other things I should be looking at?

 

[BrianRobin]

Our coldest this winter so far has been -32celsius. We drained are systems,(engine ,sink and shower) and ran RV antifreeze through everything ,and as an extra precaution un hook the hose ends on the water heater. The engines closed system has antifreeze.

 

[Terry Cox]

In addition to three dryers, one for each cabin, I have one of these set on low https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--portable-cabin-heater--7867500?recordNum=1
while away from the boat to help prevent what just happened to you. Very safe and designed for the marine environment to help protect the inside components of the boat from freezing. Been doing this each winter almost since we purchased the boat in 2002.

As long as your boat's electrical system is in good condition, no worries. One good indicator is to make sure that the spades and spade sockets of your shore power cord are clear and clean with no sign of over heating, pitting, etc. The cabin heater set on low only draws 800 watts, but seems to be enough to keep the interior of the boat above freezing.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I don't like the idea of having an electric heater going full time (fire hazard).

I did, too, until I moved up here for the coldest and wettest winter in recent history. It's all my fault.

But the heater that Terry linked is the "go to" from folks I've talked to. So, I got one and it works just as Terry says.

Fire hazard? Aw, c'mon. If you worry about that it means your AC system isn't working right. It's like saying you won't put the heat on your house because...why?

 

[Full Circle 473]

AC system is working great. I am a bit paranoid because have heard of too many house and boat fires due to faulty space heaters. Sounds like I will be going to West Marine. I like the feature of the heater turning on automatically at 38 degrees. Other than the heater, are there any other issues or suggestions you might have?

 

[Stu Jackson]

are there any other issues or suggestions you might have?

Build confidence. Go to your boat often when you first set it up. Check wiring, especially behind the electrical panel. Understand your system from the dock pedestal to the outlets. Touch wires. Look for heat.

Most of the boat fires are because owners didn't bother. Faulty heaters are usually not the electrical types mentioned by Terry. For example, I had an electric heater, but it was made of plastic and didn't trust it. So, I got one like Terry's link, more popularly called Caframo heaters. A few different companies make them. They can't get knocked over unless you balance it precariously one something.

Try it, visit your boat often, get confidence.

Stay warm, too.

 

[Full Circle 473]

Thanks Stu. I have been down to the boat every day. (Still ice in the marina) Really love it this time of year (so quiet). Today I ran the engine, checked the water system, checked electrical, etc. The Admiral probably thinks I spend too much time there. Really appreciate the advice.

 

[Mark Maulden]

I dont do a whole lot..EVERY thru hull is closed. I relieve the potable water pressure by leaving both faucets open. I usually leave fresh water in the toilet but replaced it with salt water. I leave a Caframo air dryer on the floor. Less than 100 watts to just move air and prevent mildew. The ice in the marina is only a thin layer of freshwater that floats on top of salt water. (Rain and runoff) I just let the boat get cold and remember, you're floating in ~47 deg water..

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

It's like saying you won't put the heat on your house because...why?

You haven't seen my last natural gas bill, have you ?
That's why.

 

[Gene S]

I went down to the boat Thursday night b/c of an email about breakins. The WM heater was fine set to about 40deg. The thermometer said about 45 or so. I dont know where the heat comes from but the faucets weren't frozen. I thought I read that my hull is solid and sandwitched above the waterline.

 

[Terry Cox]

Visited the boat earlier today just to check on matters. Took some photos of our pleated shades for another article here. Checked shore power and heater set on low draws about five amps, which is just enough to keep the boat above freezing. With the three dryers going the total amp draw was just under seven amps; no worries.

Our small marine grade space heater that we use on the boat was made in Canada. Good product with built in safety features. Should last several years, easy to stow on board and handy to perk things up when necessary.

Water in the marina is brackish with all the run off. Still a layer of ice throughout the marina, but around the boat just plain water.

 

[Terry Cox]

Thanks Stu. I have been down to the boat every day. (Still ice in the marina) Really love it this time of year (so quiet). Today I ran the engine, checked the water system, checked electrical, etc. The Admiral probably thinks I spend too much time there. Really appreciate the advice.

You've probably seen this posting, but on the chance not, it is worth noting again here:

http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...ary-tale-or-shore-power-near-disaster.182831/

When we purchased Belle-Vie in 2002 the socket end of both shore power cords looked like the one in the picture. Silly me I kept using them without incident for a few years. Then I decided to purchase a newer one at a garage sale. That one worked fine for awhile until boat movement caused the cord to become disconnected from the boat and was burned in the process. That is when I installed a cord restrainer on the boat end.

A number of years later our side "A" shore power cord again looked like the one shown. Bought a new cord thinking that it was a bad cord. Ruined the new one after just a few uses. Turned out it was the plug spades on the boat's "A" side shore power connection. Over time they become pitted and just wear out from life in the marine environment. I installed a new boat plug and the problem has not returned. Maybe in time it will wear out just like the original, but it should be good for a few years.

Stu's point, as is mine, a quality space heater with built in safety features is well worth the investment to help ward off freezing temps inside the boat. I keep mine on the floor away from any flammable material and as long as your electrical system is in good order, a perfectly safe choice.

 

[Full Circle 473]

Thanks. I have ordered the WM heater on Amazon (less expensive than WM). Be here on Wednesday. What are you doing to keep down the condensation? I have 2 of the WM units, but it is still very wet inside. Water dripping on the woodwork from the top windows.

 

[Terry Cox]

You are most welcome. John, my boating buddy, keeps a dehumidifier running on his boat during these months and he says it makes a big difference on condensation, but then again he is a live aboard. It seems that having a dryer running in each of the three cabins along with the space heater, condensation is greatly reduced but not completely in our boat. Having a dry bilge seems to help, too.

There are some appliances that use a desiccant to reduce humidity levels inside boats. These need to be emptied periodically, or piped into a sink drain or bilge. The only time we have that much moisture dripping from hatches or port lights is when we are on board. Bodies expel a considerable amount of moisture.

Another boater that I cruise with uses a device similar to this:

https://www.amazon.com/Anself-Semic...d=1483910165&sr=8-13&keywords=desiccant+dryer

He says it is pretty effective, but again the moisture that it collects needs to be disposed of periodically.

 

[Mark Maulden]

I'm surprisd you're having dripping condensation issues when the relative Humidity has been around 20-25% for last few weeks with nobody on board..seems to me something inside is wet. Ventilation is also important. Is one of your dorade vents turned into the wind?

 

[steve stark]

Hi, folks...
Just following along with the discussion. I second the motion that the Caframo/WM low profile heater is a great little unit. We use it often on Starbright when docked. I do, however, wish to make an alternative suggestion to those who might be looking for a heater to leave unattended. We use a freestanding, oil-filled radiator commonly available at the big box stores. Over the years, I have learned where to dial in the thermostat, and which power level to select (900W/600W) to keep the cabin at our target freeze protection temps based on predicted outside conditions. I prefer this type of heater greatly over the Caframo forced-air convection heater for unattended use simply because it is highly fault tolerant. The resistive wires in the Caframo units can go very high temp and fracture if the fan experiences a fault - either locked rotor or bogging-down bearing. I have always worried that there could be a small bit of very hot ejecta in those cases. The oil-filled units, on the other hand, keep the elements completely enclosed in the oil and do not rely on moving air.

It is important, though, to properly mount the radiator type as they are typically tall and narrow, and are often standing on wheels. On Starbright, I put the wheels in rubber furniture cups, and support the unit at the top as well. Then, we run external fans to keep the warm air moving through the cabins and also keep the mildew from spawning.

Just an alternative to consider, there is always more than one way to skin the cat. I know I sleep a little better since Starbright is 190 miles from my home and winter visits are sometimes spaced out a little.

On another note.... Terry, I have read in the past that you have been using a Wallas 30dt installation. I am seriously considering picking one up on the Seattle boat show pricing, but would love to pick your brain on how you use the unit. Specifically, it seems that this unit is intended to be used in a "set and forget" fashion as it has a lengthy start-up and shut-down sequence. We intend to use the unit for evenings/mornings for the most part and thus cycle it a couple of times a day and I am curious about your use-models and experiences. Could we perhaps converse by PM or phone sometime?

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Steve, one of my buddy boaters uses the radiator type unit that you use. He has it going on his boat here while he winters over in Mexico in his palapa. Nice unit, but the drawbacks for me are size and ability to stow when not in use.

I installed a Wallas 40D forced air unit on our boat several years ago and really like it. During our cruises these winter months it will run all the time to keep the interior warm while on the hook. Seldom does it have to be at maximum output; setting six. Most of the time during the day with temps in the low thirties I have it set at about four. At night when we turn in I'll turn it down to two. Start up and shut down takes about five minutes each so I adjust the furnace use accordingly.

Last month just before Christmas we spent a few days in Eagle Harbor on the east side of Cypress Island. Motored up due to no wind, but I turned the furnace on about thirty minutes before arriving at anchor so that the boat interior is nice and warm. It remained on all while we there. To turn it on all you do is flip a small rocker switch to heat and the unit takes over. Ditto when you shut it down. They recommend that you run it at maximum heat for at least five minutes before shutting it down to eject carbon deposits.

An article that I wrote awhile ago about installing the unit is here: http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/mods.php?task=article&mid=45&aid=6007&mn=42

A 30D would have been too small for the volume of our boat. If you are mechanically inclined and have some basic tools the installation is a nice do-it-yourself project. A 30D probably just the right size for your boat.

Call me if you like at 425/513-9673 to discuss. Just leave a message if I'm not around at the time. Please let us know how your project goes. The archives have other articles from other boaters who have installed these units, too.

 

[jssailem]

Steve. The Wallas is a great unit. Terry has provided you a clear outline of the way it works. I installed my unit this past summer. More time spent deciding its location and routing of the ducts then the actual installation. It is a DYI possible job.
My boat is in Everett and I'll be there later this month should you want to look at the install.

 

[Terry Cox]

My boat is in Everett and I'll be there later this month should you want to look at the install.

Hi John, please give me a few days heads up on your drive to Everett. Maybe we can meet for a beer or two. I'd like to meet you. A good time with other boaters including myself is Skipper's Night every Wednesday at Scuttlebutts's for happy hour next to the Everett Marina office. Bob Barker (the real Bob Barker) from our flotilla is usually always there. He is an old scruffy brit.

 

[Mark Maulden]

And, I'm in Everett at times...I'll invite myself