The US Coast Guard, more and more involved in Homeland Security since 9/11, has floated a trial balloon for a plan to license recreational boaters. No, this would not be a license based on competency in boat operations, but one rather based on security. The Coast Guard claims it has problems determining who is operating a boat out there. It is not clear why the Coast Guard feels existing forms of identification, such as a valid state driver's license or Social Security card, would be insufficient. Have you ever been stopped by the Coast Guard while afloat? If you have, did they ask for identification and if so, what type did you provide? Was that acceptable? How would you feel about the need to obtain another form of identification associated with your boat? Is this a valid requirement to enhance Homeland Security or the basis for more bureaucracy? Tell us about your views concerning a boating ID card and then take the Quick Quiz on the homepage. (Discussion topic and quiz by Warren Milberg)
- Status
It s*cks, but
they've always had the right to do that. Looks like someone just got their copy of the BoatUS magazine. More security nonsense from the guys who brought you the Do Nothing But We're Making You Safer stupidity. Maybe time to go to the Politics forum.
they've always had the right to do that. Looks like someone just got their copy of the BoatUS magazine. More security nonsense from the guys who brought you the Do Nothing But We're Making You Safer stupidity. Maybe time to go to the Politics forum.
Duplication...
...if the objective is good ID, then simply determine what that is and make a reg requiring it for operation. To have a whole additional ID seems redundant on the face of it. I can certainly understand the exposure for breaches of security by recreational boats, but I am underwhelmed that another piece of ID would do much for making us more secure. In fact, I would think the USCG already has 'probable cause' to detain and investigate anyone who it considers to have insufficient identification right now. I guess the question I have is what changes with a new ID and how am I going to feel safer? Rick D.
...if the objective is good ID, then simply determine what that is and make a reg requiring it for operation. To have a whole additional ID seems redundant on the face of it. I can certainly understand the exposure for breaches of security by recreational boats, but I am underwhelmed that another piece of ID would do much for making us more secure. In fact, I would think the USCG already has 'probable cause' to detain and investigate anyone who it considers to have insufficient identification right now. I guess the question I have is what changes with a new ID and how am I going to feel safer? Rick D.
They can't do anything about illegal alliens...
but they keep coming up with ways of harrassing us citizens. I love it.
but they keep coming up with ways of harrassing us citizens. I love it.
What's wrong with what we already carry?
I think a picture ID would be what they'd want to overcharge us for, but a valid driver's license and current registration is all they need. If it's good enough for everybody else, it oughta be good enough for the USCG, particularly since it has nothing to do with seamanship. Mark in Modesto
I think a picture ID would be what they'd want to overcharge us for, but a valid driver's license and current registration is all they need. If it's good enough for everybody else, it oughta be good enough for the USCG, particularly since it has nothing to do with seamanship. Mark in Modesto
Stupid
This is typical of governments. They do all sorts of things they shouldn't be doing, like this, and don't do the things they should be doing, like securing the borders. Do they seriously think that Al Queda or someone is going to try to sneak into this country aboard my little boat when there are 2000 miles of US-Mexican and 4000 miles of US-Canadian border that are for all practical purposes wide open. Apparently there are way too many people in staff positions in DC with not enough to do. They could try sending some of them out the the field and help out the Coasties at the dirty end ot the stick. On the otherhand the local Coasties are probably better off without the "help' of the HQ types. They've always been able to stop and search my vessel and demand ID but now they want yet another special ID just for themselves. Homeland Security has screwed the air transportation system to a fair the well and now they want to do it to the personal boater. All governments are the same, they just can't resist the urge to control the citizens. Jefferson warned us about this and lo and behold he's right. Just more government nonsense no matter which party is in charge, the bureaucrats just can't leave us be.
This is typical of governments. They do all sorts of things they shouldn't be doing, like this, and don't do the things they should be doing, like securing the borders. Do they seriously think that Al Queda or someone is going to try to sneak into this country aboard my little boat when there are 2000 miles of US-Mexican and 4000 miles of US-Canadian border that are for all practical purposes wide open. Apparently there are way too many people in staff positions in DC with not enough to do. They could try sending some of them out the the field and help out the Coasties at the dirty end ot the stick. On the otherhand the local Coasties are probably better off without the "help' of the HQ types. They've always been able to stop and search my vessel and demand ID but now they want yet another special ID just for themselves. Homeland Security has screwed the air transportation system to a fair the well and now they want to do it to the personal boater. All governments are the same, they just can't resist the urge to control the citizens. Jefferson warned us about this and lo and behold he's right. Just more government nonsense no matter which party is in charge, the bureaucrats just can't leave us be.
papers
I remember watching old WWII movies and movies involving the commies. It seems to me that every time an SS slug or commie cop came up to a normal person they wanted papers or they would shoot....hmmmmmmmm????????.... Circular history???? I guess we have completed the loop. Trouble is most of the time, one piece of paper did the trick in those movies....guess we just aren't that efficient yet.
I remember watching old WWII movies and movies involving the commies. It seems to me that every time an SS slug or commie cop came up to a normal person they wanted papers or they would shoot....hmmmmmmmm????????.... Circular history???? I guess we have completed the loop. Trouble is most of the time, one piece of paper did the trick in those movies....guess we just aren't that efficient yet.
Stupid is as stupid does
Let's see---there is your boat's state registration, documentation paperwork, a drivers license, SSN, passport, birth certificate... Yep, we definitely do not have enough ways to verify that you are not a terrorist sneaking up the coasline. Sound's like someone is trying to justify their overrated & overpaid desk job.
Let's see---there is your boat's state registration, documentation paperwork, a drivers license, SSN, passport, birth certificate... Yep, we definitely do not have enough ways to verify that you are not a terrorist sneaking up the coasline. Sound's like someone is trying to justify their overrated & overpaid desk job.
Another ID Unnecessary
When I'm on my boat, I have a photo drivers license, a Coast Guard docucmentation paper, a boat insurance doc., a boat loan doc, a USCG license, a photo PADI dive card, an AMEX card, a Master Card, a Visa card, a CVS Care card, a Kroger Plus card, a BlockBuster card, a West Marine Advantage card, a Boaters World Captains card, a health insurance card, a dental insurance card, a Volkswagen Owners Club card, a hunting and fishing license each for Florida, Georgia and South Carolina, a photo Sam's Club card,and a Wachovia ATM card. I don't need an other card and they don't either. If the Coast Guard boarding officer can't figure out who I am ... our Country's security is in deep trouble! If they have to require that we have some kind of photo ID while operating our boat... require that we have a drivers license... everybody has one of those.
When I'm on my boat, I have a photo drivers license, a Coast Guard docucmentation paper, a boat insurance doc., a boat loan doc, a USCG license, a photo PADI dive card, an AMEX card, a Master Card, a Visa card, a CVS Care card, a Kroger Plus card, a BlockBuster card, a West Marine Advantage card, a Boaters World Captains card, a health insurance card, a dental insurance card, a Volkswagen Owners Club card, a hunting and fishing license each for Florida, Georgia and South Carolina, a photo Sam's Club card,and a Wachovia ATM card. I don't need an other card and they don't either. If the Coast Guard boarding officer can't figure out who I am ... our Country's security is in deep trouble! If they have to require that we have some kind of photo ID while operating our boat... require that we have a drivers license... everybody has one of those.
Boater ID
IMHO, such a program would be useless. It is already too easy to obtain ID in this country; Social Security cards,green cards, Driver's licenses, weapons permits, etc do nothing to prevent illegal aliens from obtaining jobs and welfare, drunks from driving while intoxicated or on a suspension, and convicted felons possess guns. If there is a genuine need to confirm the ID of a vessel operator, the CG should have access to the NCIC data base. Then their info could be as accurate as that of the local law enforcement. In today's IT age it would be relatively easy to add a laptop to a patrol boat in similar fashion as a patrol car. Any thing more would only add several layers of Admin foulups and inflated costs. Steve Kamp
IMHO, such a program would be useless. It is already too easy to obtain ID in this country; Social Security cards,green cards, Driver's licenses, weapons permits, etc do nothing to prevent illegal aliens from obtaining jobs and welfare, drunks from driving while intoxicated or on a suspension, and convicted felons possess guns. If there is a genuine need to confirm the ID of a vessel operator, the CG should have access to the NCIC data base. Then their info could be as accurate as that of the local law enforcement. In today's IT age it would be relatively easy to add a laptop to a patrol boat in similar fashion as a patrol car. Any thing more would only add several layers of Admin foulups and inflated costs. Steve Kamp
ALLREADY HAVE ONE
I Live in Ct. and the Department of Enviromental Protection makes anyone who operates a watercraft using a motor to take the safe boating course (6-8 hours ). Everyone passes and you get a boaters lisence. The personal watercraft lisence was an additional training session and that would apply to anyone who uses things like Jet Skies. The day I got my lisence they were awarding participants the two in one . Anyway I dragged myself to the course and actually enjoyed it. I learned allot and it was an enjoyable day. Anyway I thought that every state required something . I know that its done here not for security but because the accident rate on the water has been rising.Accross from my mooring is a place where subs are built and just up the river a slight bit is a Navy base . You get followed the whole lenght of the base and a private security boat will be close by if you get too close to the submarine building place..For the purposes of Identification a regular auto lisence used to be enough but oftentimes today people want two Id's , one with a picture.Its hard for me to say if requiring a boaters ID is asking too much. many vulnerable targets such as the ones I have mentioned as well as highway bridges and train bridges are accesable via waterways, however I hope if this new lisence does have to come into exsistance that just like my CT. safe boaters lisence , it will be good for life and never need to be renewed..Illegal entries into the US has also been a problem and anyone could register a boat and lend it or lease it to another for who knows what .The registration papers on board the boat would not give the coast guard any information as to the operator of the boat...If the Coast Guard feels they need this additional I D, I would be happy to get it for them, they could save my life ...remeber also there is a growing problem with "pirates " in places where people go cruising. .SMITROE
I Live in Ct. and the Department of Enviromental Protection makes anyone who operates a watercraft using a motor to take the safe boating course (6-8 hours ). Everyone passes and you get a boaters lisence. The personal watercraft lisence was an additional training session and that would apply to anyone who uses things like Jet Skies. The day I got my lisence they were awarding participants the two in one . Anyway I dragged myself to the course and actually enjoyed it. I learned allot and it was an enjoyable day. Anyway I thought that every state required something . I know that its done here not for security but because the accident rate on the water has been rising.Accross from my mooring is a place where subs are built and just up the river a slight bit is a Navy base . You get followed the whole lenght of the base and a private security boat will be close by if you get too close to the submarine building place..For the purposes of Identification a regular auto lisence used to be enough but oftentimes today people want two Id's , one with a picture.Its hard for me to say if requiring a boaters ID is asking too much. many vulnerable targets such as the ones I have mentioned as well as highway bridges and train bridges are accesable via waterways, however I hope if this new lisence does have to come into exsistance that just like my CT. safe boaters lisence , it will be good for life and never need to be renewed..Illegal entries into the US has also been a problem and anyone could register a boat and lend it or lease it to another for who knows what .The registration papers on board the boat would not give the coast guard any information as to the operator of the boat...If the Coast Guard feels they need this additional I D, I would be happy to get it for them, they could save my life ...remeber also there is a growing problem with "pirates " in places where people go cruising. .SMITROE
And How About a License To Operate Too
Not only do I not have a problem with a Coast Guard I.D., but I would suggest taking it one stem further by licenseing primary operator/owners. This would apply to all inboard/outboard operators and sail operators over 18 feet. I sail a 34 O'Day in the New England area every summer and I am convinced any idiot with a checkbook or charge card is considered qualified to be on the bay. This is certainly not true, it doesn't make any sense to think anyone should be able to operate a "vehicle" of such dangerous potential without some kind of certification system at the state or national level. If you doubt the validity of my suggestion, just monitor channel 16 any summer day in the Newport area. I don't know how the over tasked and over committed Coast Guard copes without throwing everyone on shore!
Not only do I not have a problem with a Coast Guard I.D., but I would suggest taking it one stem further by licenseing primary operator/owners. This would apply to all inboard/outboard operators and sail operators over 18 feet. I sail a 34 O'Day in the New England area every summer and I am convinced any idiot with a checkbook or charge card is considered qualified to be on the bay. This is certainly not true, it doesn't make any sense to think anyone should be able to operate a "vehicle" of such dangerous potential without some kind of certification system at the state or national level. If you doubt the validity of my suggestion, just monitor channel 16 any summer day in the Newport area. I don't know how the over tasked and over committed Coast Guard copes without throwing everyone on shore!
Thumbprint Kit from State Police
IM(NS)HO if another layer of ID were really needed, all "they" need to do is to get one of those "thumbprint" readers from the State Police who already use them when stopping "suspect" drivers. Any new form of ID, like all the others, would probably be forged faster than they could be rolled out. Another layer of buerocracy, probably another fee. Bob
IM(NS)HO if another layer of ID were really needed, all "they" need to do is to get one of those "thumbprint" readers from the State Police who already use them when stopping "suspect" drivers. Any new form of ID, like all the others, would probably be forged faster than they could be rolled out. Another layer of buerocracy, probably another fee. Bob
AMEM
Amem, anyone with a check book....or a credit card, can operate a boat. Licensing for operator ability and knowledge makes sense to me.
Amem, anyone with a check book....or a credit card, can operate a boat. Licensing for operator ability and knowledge makes sense to me.
Too Much Time On Thier Hands..
As usual,the "Higher Ups" have too much time on thier hands for "thinking".When I was in the Military we found that allowing "Higher Ups" the time to sit and think usally led to them coming up with some kind of "Brain Storm" idea that made no sense in the Practical World to anyone but them.This is where the "Upper Management" is with this new i.d. idea..GET THESE PEOPLE OUTTA THIER OFFICES AND INTO THE FIELD WORKING and the world will be a better place for us all.Coast Gaurd claims they're short handed..bet I can boost the number if people in the field by a large percentage..just put me in charge for a week..I promise to rotate all those desk bound fools to more useful positions and NO I.D. Cards for Americans.
As usual,the "Higher Ups" have too much time on thier hands for "thinking".When I was in the Military we found that allowing "Higher Ups" the time to sit and think usally led to them coming up with some kind of "Brain Storm" idea that made no sense in the Practical World to anyone but them.This is where the "Upper Management" is with this new i.d. idea..GET THESE PEOPLE OUTTA THIER OFFICES AND INTO THE FIELD WORKING and the world will be a better place for us all.Coast Gaurd claims they're short handed..bet I can boost the number if people in the field by a large percentage..just put me in charge for a week..I promise to rotate all those desk bound fools to more useful positions and NO I.D. Cards for Americans.
Boater's ID
New Jersey requires a photo on their motor vehicle driver's license which will also have a boat operator's license, CDL information, motorcycle, etc. if the holder has them. We do not need another form of ID along with the costs involved with it. My guess is there are other states that have the same type of information on their motor venicle operator's licenses.
New Jersey requires a photo on their motor vehicle driver's license which will also have a boat operator's license, CDL information, motorcycle, etc. if the holder has them. We do not need another form of ID along with the costs involved with it. My guess is there are other states that have the same type of information on their motor venicle operator's licenses.
ID
I thought it was pretty strange when I was at the toll booth on the Walt Whitman bridge headed to Philly for a cheesesteak and the toll taker asked me for my passport. Well, OK I'm exagerrating. But I would not be the least bit surprised if it happened. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
I thought it was pretty strange when I was at the toll booth on the Walt Whitman bridge headed to Philly for a cheesesteak and the toll taker asked me for my passport. Well, OK I'm exagerrating. But I would not be the least bit surprised if it happened. Jack Manning s/v Victim of Fate Atlantic City, NJ
Why is the CG making laws?
A few things. YES, anyone with a check book can get a boat, thats why you have one. Who would check the new IDs? I wonder if they would be water proof. The CG does not require probable cause to stop a vessel in us waters or a us flagged vessel anywhere else. And boating accidents have not been on the rise, it is the opposite. Boating accidents and fatalities are on the decline, and boat registrations and ownership are on the rise. If I remember correctly, a majority of boating deaths are on lakes and inland waters where the cg isnt. The cg has access to EPIC, el paso info center. Its the clearing house of law enforcement information. They always have. The ids dont save lives or even stop bullets. I would be ok with an id that inflates in case of an emergency.
A few things. YES, anyone with a check book can get a boat, thats why you have one. Who would check the new IDs? I wonder if they would be water proof. The CG does not require probable cause to stop a vessel in us waters or a us flagged vessel anywhere else. And boating accidents have not been on the rise, it is the opposite. Boating accidents and fatalities are on the decline, and boat registrations and ownership are on the rise. If I remember correctly, a majority of boating deaths are on lakes and inland waters where the cg isnt. The cg has access to EPIC, el paso info center. Its the clearing house of law enforcement information. They always have. The ids dont save lives or even stop bullets. I would be ok with an id that inflates in case of an emergency.
IMHO
There are worse ideas out there. It can be easy for terroriests to alter or make new Driver licenses, birth cirtificates, and s.s. cards. But a system that only the coast gaurd has in there systems that they can scan and verify might not be a bad idea. Ok now if your only a lake boating in the middle of the country, then it might not be valid, but for the coast line i thinks it has potental. IMHO
There are worse ideas out there. It can be easy for terroriests to alter or make new Driver licenses, birth cirtificates, and s.s. cards. But a system that only the coast gaurd has in there systems that they can scan and verify might not be a bad idea. Ok now if your only a lake boating in the middle of the country, then it might not be valid, but for the coast line i thinks it has potental. IMHO
Waste of time and money
Waste of time and money, we have so many forms of ID, Passports, Drivers licences, Credit cards, company Ids. I think it would be a better spend of time and money to have all of these different ID bases speak to one another. If someone does not have the IDs mentioned above , how were they able to afford/buy a boat. If they don't have an ID then THEY should be brought in for questioning as the only people now a days that don't have IDs don't belong on the water.
Waste of time and money, we have so many forms of ID, Passports, Drivers licences, Credit cards, company Ids. I think it would be a better spend of time and money to have all of these different ID bases speak to one another. If someone does not have the IDs mentioned above , how were they able to afford/buy a boat. If they don't have an ID then THEY should be brought in for questioning as the only people now a days that don't have IDs don't belong on the water.
- Status