Pilothouse in the PNW

[Tedd]

My wife and I are currently sailing a Mac 26S in the Vancouver, BC area, but we're considering moving up to a bigger boat in a few years. We like the idea of a pilothouse, with my wife being more drawn toward trawler-style boats like the Fisher while I gravitate toward more pure sailboats, like the Tanzer 10.5 Pilothouse. But lately I've been wondering about how practical a pilothouse really is in this area. It's obviously a huge advantage when you're motoring. But, when under sail, don't you end up going outside all the time to tend sheets and so on? Can you really sail from within the pilothouse? I suppose it depends on how well the boat is set up, but I'm interested in the experience of those who have sailed a pilothouse in the PNW--coastal cruising, not blue water.
I'm not looking for a discussion of the sailing characteristics of the various boats. There's more than enough opinion on that subject expressed elsewhere!

 

[Rick D]

Here is one that should be on your consideration list: Gulf 32. I almost purchased one new before my wife spied a Hunter Vision 32. Anyhow, this Garden-designed pilothouse was cleverly and practically designed in a package that was not too large. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/category/type/Gulf/32+Pilothouse

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Hope @jssailem pipes up here he has a Cal35 with pilot house type design.

Les

 

[Tedd]

Thanks, Rick! I've seen those in the listings from time to time but don't know much about them. I really like the lines. Based on the data from sailboatdata.com it seems like they're a bit on the heavy side--maybe leaning a bit more toward the motorsailor than a Tanzer? Know much about how they sail?

 

[jssailem]

Hi @Tedd . I own a Cal 35 Cruiser. It has a pilothouse look.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1586
It gives me a salon that is open and airy with a 360 view of the area. It does not have an internal helm. I have an autopilot that I use to helm the boat. I can be inside and monitor the performance and there are remote controls that permit adjustments of the autopilot from inside the boat.
I am a bit old school as I have the halyards rigged at the mast. I think there is value to moving about the boat in all conditions. I do it with a JackLine and safety harness. If I get too old to be able to control the boat then I’ll have look at a trawler. There were only 120 of the Cal35C made. I understand that there are 2 others in the Puget Sound. One was on the hard South of Seattle and the other was in Liberty Bay. They were for sale for about $29,000 USD. This was when I bought my boat in 2015.
My likes:

1. a good solid hull,
2. Originally had the Perkins 4107 installed.
3. Built in 1973-74.
4. Draft of 5ft is nice for exploring the anchorages of the Pacific NW.
5. Some have windows that have leaked. I think this is more from age than design.
6. Plywood was used as a filler in the deck.
7. The Cal Boats have a 7.2 hull speed.
8. Lots of room for fuel/water/storage.
9. Not the fanciest of design but typical of the era when built.

Here are the data links to the two boats you listed for comparison. Both are more like a trawler/pilothouse cabin then the Cal boat.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=7391
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=1713
Both look to be solid boats and capable of cruising the Salish Sea.

 

[Tedd]

John:
That Cal 35 looks really nice. Be sure to contact me if you ever decide to sell it!
Your set up with the autopilot controls inside seems like it would work fine for me. I just have a Mac 26S at the moment, so I'm used to going forward for everything.
Ageing is definitely a factor in my thinking. Right now I'm happy with a boat that requires lots of running around and physical work, but I'm thinking ahead to the days when that won't be as much fun. Retirement and more serious sailing are, I hope, going to come together for us. So my thinking right now is we keep what we have a few more years, and then get something that's still a proper sailboat but with a pilothouse. And then in a few more years maybe more of a motorsailor, like a Fisher. And then, finally, if even that is too physical (and the money hasn't run out) maybe a pure motor trawler.
Tedd

 

[Rick D]

Thanks, Rick! I've seen those in the listings from time to time but don't know much about them. I really like the lines. Based on the data from sailboatdata.com it seems like they're a bit on the heavy side--maybe leaning a bit more toward the motorsailor than a Tanzer? Know much about how they sail?

I checked with someone I knew when I was considering a new one. He said light air wasn't great, but he got a drifter that helped. See this thread, and especially the last two posts from someone who owns one and doesn't simply speculate: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/85346-gulf-pilothouse-32-how-does-sail.html

 

[Sailavie1]

If you want to look at a pilot house style that, in my mind, is state-of-the-art the German made Sirius is it.
https://www.sirius-werft.de/wpsirius/en/yachten/35ds/
These have features that are second to none. Though they may be hard to find on this side of the pond.

 

[Tedd]

Though they may be hard to find on this side of the pond.

Or in my price range! Still, a gorgeous boat, to be sure.
Tedd

 

[MitchM]

we looked at some PNW pilothouses including the vancouver 34 and pacific seacraft. we finally found our current nauticat 321 pilot house . it has both an inside pilot house helm and a cockpit helm. it's been a great boat for us in the miserable great lakes weather. there are a very small number of nauticat pilot houses for sale in the USA , it's a european boat made in finland . sloop or ketch rig, 32 feet to 55 feet. . there are more on offer in the west coast , at seattle 's marine service center , and only rarely are they on the east coast.

 

[jssailem]

I recently had the opportunity to walk on a Nauticat for sale in Olympia WA. Broker said he had some interest from back east. Up for sale 4 weeks with the broker. Boat looked to be in good repair. It was clean. Big Ford Lehman diesel. Lots of fuel. Guess it has a high burn rate. Liked the 2 sleeping quarters. Nice deck. Felt the inside steering position was pretty much like a fishing boat. Good visibility. Standing atop the engine.. This would be a solid cruiser in the NW. The outside position was behind the pilot house. Sailing felt like it was an after thought on the boat, based the way rigging is run. Self tacking jib... She is a cruiser not a racer. Think the price in the 90K range is unreal for an 80’s boat of that size. It is al about offers. The owners sound motivated and disappointed. Want a good home for their boat.

 

[Tedd]

Thanks guys. Yes, it seems there is a range from more sailing-oriented pilothouses (such as the Gulf 29) to motorsailors with the emphasis on motor. Right now I'm leaning toward the sailing-oriented end of the scale. Maybe a few years down the road I'll want something more motor-y.

 

[Kings Gambit]

In the past couple of years I've put a lot of "mental energy" into thinking about a pilot house sloop for the PNW. On my charter last summer to Gorge Harbour and Waiatt Bay I saw two of the Gulf 32s; one at each place. They both were in very nice condition and the owners loved them. A very practical and not overly expensive option. You don't have to go fast if you have time and/or do not have to go far.

 

[Tedd]

Kings:
I really like the look of the Gulf 32, but there's a big difference in sail area to displacement between the 32 and the 29. Sailboatdata has the 32 at 11.58 and the 29 at 15.58. I don't have a lot of experience but the boats I'm used to are in the high teens. The 32 seems like it might be closer to a motorsailor than I want. It's a beautiful boat though and, as you say, good value for the money.

 

[jssailem]

I would agree with you @Tedd the look of the Gulf is more motor than sail. Would be very serviceable in the PNW.

 

[Tedd]

Attached is a bubble chart showing SA/D, B/D, and D/L for various boats in the size and price range that I'm considering. The size of the bubble indicates D/L. Bubbles with a black outline are pilothouses, which is currently my preference due the expectation that we'll be doing year-round cruising in the Pacific northwest.
I keep coming back to the Tanzer 10.5 as having the best all-around combination of the features I'm looking for. The Gulf 29 also looks really good. The Gulf 32 and Fisher 25 seem like really nice boats but, with their low SA/D, a bit more 'motory' than I want. The C&C Redwing is an outlier but it's such a pretty boat I couldn't resist including it. The non-pilothouse boats (C&C 30, etc.) have really nice numbers and are certainly options, with a full cockpit cover, but I still lean toward the pilothouses. The Mac 26S is shown only for my reference, because that's the boat we currently have.
[Edited to add: I welcome any suggestions for boats I've missed that might meet my requirements. I'm just at the beginning of the process.]

 

[Tedd]

my wife spied a Hunter Vision 32

Rick:
I just checked out the Hunter 32 Vision. That is a really nice boat!
It comes in toward the low end of the range for ballast/displacement ratio. How stiff is it? After the Mac 26 my wife is keen to get something stiff!

 

[gettinthere]

Lucky guy

 

[Tedd]

Lucky guy

Guess I should have thought that one through before posting!

 

[gettinthere]

but seriously folks...why not a good enclosure on a 'regular' boat? I have a full enclosure on my Endeavour 42CC. I've left the Chesapeake bay in late Oct and had some pretty cold mornings but the full enclosure works quite well. If I needed extra warmth, I could install a diesel heater and let the heat rise up into the cockpit but that hasn't been necessary. I have all lines led into the cockpit so I can stay inside nice and warm. Often on a windy day, keeping the windward isinglass closed is just enough to keep the breeze and spray off and stay comfortable.