Pilot Berth Over-head Ceilings

[Bill Merrick]

What did Molich and other finishers use for the ceilings over the pilot berths and V-berths on the Challenger?
My Mistral originally had white painted peg board which I will be replacing. I would like to find a better product to consider.

Bill Merrick
S/V Carmina
Shilshole Bay Marina, WA

 

[TomY]

Hi Bill, my Challenger had the original pegboard (masonite) from 61. Most of it was hanging from warping and sagging over the years. Plus any that got wet was in even worse shape.

I used 1/8" birch door skin plywood. The 1/4" wouldn't fit inside the rabbits cut into the covering moulding (handhold under ports) as nicely.

At any rate, it's stronger than masonite pegboard. It too will damage with water but not as quickly. This is an incentive to keep after leaks. It's holding up very well so far except for one persistant leak(finally fixed) that stained around a fastener. (I used screws with finishing washers for easy removal)

The old pieces were perfect patterns to cut the birch pieces. I vanished all sides and put several coats on the faces of the new panels. I kept thngs economical by using 2 pieces (scrap) for the forward veeberth panels.
I believe I used 3 sheets @ about 25.00/ sheet several years ago. Not every yard will have the 1/8" but many do. You could also use okume or similar but I prefer the birch finish and color.

It's very bright and has a nice contrast (honey blonde color) to the mahogany trim.

 

[Bill Merrick]

Tom,

Thanks for the response. I have been thinking of paneling but concerned about looks, migration of water from leaks, durability, and ventilation. The prep you did with the paneling sound right and I would guess the birch paneling looks good. I also wanted to consider a batten option. I've heard of white cedar being used but I'm having trouble locating the right stock ( apparently there is a lumber strike in Canada that is limiting supply ) . Mahogany battens also might work but I'm having so many color problems between the mahogany on the boat and what is available in the yards that I've all but given up trying to match this. Battens should give better access if needed and I like that. Do you know af any other ceiling replacements, especially along the batten option?

Bill Merrick
S/V Carmina
Shilshole Bay Marina, WA

 

[Quetzalsailor]

Bill, Tom,

The LeComte NE 38s and possibly LeComte built Challengers have embossed Masonite-like hardboard. The NE 38 has plastic H-section battens at the few joints and tiny exposed round-head screws. Happily, mine is mostly in as-new condition and the small areas suffering watering are not badly compromised. There are several patterned fiberglass sheet products which resemble this embossed product. Have a look at your local Home Despot for theirs. It's sold for bathroom and kitchen walls in commercial use. I Googled and came up with several; here's one: http://www.wallprotectionsystems.com/frp_design_sol.php There are PVC equivalents which might not be proof against sagging over time. To my taste, the real negative of the fiberglass sheets is that they are too shiny and they look just like plastic. A coat of paint would fix that.

Doug

 

[TomY]

Tom,

Thanks for the response. I have been thinking of paneling but concerned about looks, migration of water from leaks, durability, and ventilation. The prep you did with the paneling sound right and I would guess the birch paneling looks good. I also wanted to consider a batten option. I've heard of white cedar being used but I'm having trouble locating the right stock ( apparently there is a lumber strike in Canada that is limiting supply ) . Mahogany battens also might work but I'm having so many color problems between the mahogany on the boat and what is available in the yards that I've all but given up trying to match this. Battens should give better access if needed and I like that. Do you know af any other ceiling replacements, especially along the batten option?

Bill Merrick
S/V Carmina
Shilshole Bay Marina, WA

HI Bill, my first thought would be mahogany as well. I can get a very nice grained mahogany locally here that finishes nicely. I believe it may actually be sappelle (mahogany), at least that's what I'm told. At any rate, I buy it for around 7.00 /bd.ft. It tends to be a little redder than the mahogany onboard, mostly due to age. But when the old mahogany ceiling is stripped to bare wood, it finishes surprisingly close to the sappelle.

A contrast like birch, cedar, or maybe even pine(?) might look good if it was given the right finish. Of course priming and painting with a nice oil enamel would look great too.

At any rate, if it were me, I would find some 4/4 stock (finished to 3/4" thickness), rip it to the width and then resaw it down the middle to get something in the area of a 5/16" strip. A bandsaw would be great for this, maybe a thickness planer too (a small shop could do it). That would make the sappelle about 3.50/ sq. ft. I think the thin battens would work because of the short spans between "deck beams" under the glass decks. It would be worth it to sister the little beams for easier ceiling fastening, they need the extra structure anyway. I would just put the same small chamfer on the edge that's on the hull ceiling battens.

Let us know what you decide to do Bill.

 

[Bill Merrick]

Tom,

Thanks for your response to my question about ceiling a few weeks ago. It really helped me a lot.

As I mentioned before, my boat was finsihed off by Field Aircraft Services. It may have been the first Alden boat they completed. The spec sheet for the boat called out for it the interior to be done in African mahogany. The "African mahogany" we get here is khaya, which in general, is what most people label as African mahogany. I've tried it on several places on the boat and the match is very poor. Your suggestion I look a sappelle ( or sapele ) got me on the hunt again for a matching wood.

As I searched thing out on the internet, I found that there really isn't anything that is true "African mahogany". The marketers has generally labeled Khaya as African mahogany but sapele, and others are also sold as African mahogany. I purchased some sapele and ripped it into battens for ceiling material. As you said, it cost about $7.00 a board foot but when ripped down to 5/16" battens, the cost is cut in half. The color of this wood matched my V berth better than the main cabin so I will use it there though the grain is quite different. It will look very smart. Cost is about $100 for the V-berth overhead ceilings.

In my search for the right looking sapele, I came across another wood that is ocasionally also sold as African mahogany. This is Makore. As it turns out, this is what my boat interior was finished off with. Makore has the distingtion of having heartwood that can be either as blond as spruce with golden grain when quarter sawn or a deep red similar to a true mahogany. I have the former in the galley and main cabin and the latter in the V-berth and trim pieces throughout the boat.

Luckily all of these woods have been readily available in Seattle. One of the things I find amazing is that I could never get anyone to identify the wood samples from the boat as Makore. I guess I was always asking the wrong guys.

I started on this quest to find an alternate to white painted peg board for the pilot berths ceilings. One of my big hang-ups was that I could not find any harder backed, "oil tempered" masonite type hardboard like you used to be able to get. Every place I went had only the stuff that seemed unpressed on the back side. Out of frustration, I resigned to the decision to put a temporary ceiling in the pilot berths using the "unpressed" pegboard. When I got to a new Lowe's in the area, I was astonished to find the hard backed material. ( I had probably checked 6 other stores and lumber supplies including at least two other Lowes.) So for $12.99 and a few hours of work, I put pegboard back in the pilot berths. Looks nice and light with great ventilation. Could be a winner though I will probably be looking at the light Makore or Port Orford cedar in the future.




Bill Merrick
S/V "Carmina"
Shilshole Bay Marina, Seattle WA

 

[Quetzalsailor]

The NE 38s, and the one Challenger that I saw which was a LeComte build-out, have 'African Cherry' interiors. 'African Cherry' is Makore and looks like a cross between Khaya, 'African Mahogany', and our North American Cherry. Khaya really does look like Hondouras Mahogany; it's a bit coarser but close enough for me to use on my Flying Dutchman deck while its hull is Hondouras Mahogany veneer. When you Google this stuff, you'll find that they're all different woods, different familys. You can find Makore solids, if you wish; seems now rarer than Khaya. I bought a plank of Makore and resawed it for use on the interior of the companionway boards. It's truly nasty stuff to breathe; probably the worst wood for irritating the nose and lungs that I've ever used! The interior of the new symphony hall for the Philadelphia Orchestra,Verizon Hall, is chipboard veneered in Makore, with Makore battens. The veneer is 'block mottled' which is quite different from the 'flat cut' that LeComte chose for the boats: suggests you have to pay attention to the cut. Sapele is from the same family as Luan and Meranti, southeast Asian rather than African; different stuff, not rot resistant, but certainly adequate for joinery.

Those marketers really screw things up. Luan, Philippine Mahogany, is no more Mahogany than Oak is; ditto the African Mahogany or the African Cherry!

 

[TomY]

And then, when you get the right species, age, sunlight expose(location in boat) and type of finish(es) can make a match even more difficult. That's one reason I like the contrasting birch. The original pegboard still works for me as well.


I've stripped alot of my boat but many areas (bulkheads) I just refinished. It even looks like the solid wood may have varied in hue and finish right from the start. Overall, I like the slightly aged look though and try not to oversand anything.