Hi Folks, I seem to have a leak on my 1979 Oday 23. I went out sailing today and had a dry bilge at the start. After sailing for a couple of hours on a beam reach, I accumulated about a pint of water in the bilge. I have noticed this before when I am sailing hard, with the rail down. However, I have not been able to find the source of the leak. It doesn't appear to be coming from above (e.g. hull/deck joint, deck hardware, etc.), nor does it seem to be coming from the ends of the boat. I peered into in as many places as possible with a flashlight and couldn't find evidence of a leak. I mopped out the bilge and we turned around for the beat home. We had to reef the main and got rounded up a couple of times, so we were sailing with rails down quite a bit of the time. When I got back to the dock, I found another pint of water in the bilge. I have checked all the obvious places like the centerboard tube, sink drains, bilge pump drain hose, etc. Thanks in advance for any ideas or suggestions.
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Kevin, Check your self bailing cockpit hose and your Gudgeons. Look for water marks. It could also be your gunwale molding. The caulking behind the gunwale molding is only good for about 10 years. Sometimes the cleaners we use on the deck and hull can eat out the caulking. Try having someone hose down your deck and go inside and see if you can spot any water. If you do, it's probably coming from the gunwale molding. My 222 has a fabric interior, and I could feel the dampness on it when I touched it. That's how I knew that it was coming from my gunwale molding. If you have to do any caulking, use a good grade of Polysulfide caulking like 3-M Marine Adhesive Sealant Fastcure 4000 UV. Don't use silicone. Smooth Sailing! Joe
I've got the same thing...
If it has recently rained hard, I can dry out the bilge completely then I find that a cup or so of water magically re-appears in the bilge for the next few days. I've been able to track it down to the stringers that run parallel to the keel. They have a foam liner in them and they will soak up a good amount of water and slowly let it back out. It usually takes two or three iterations of soaking up that last bit of water with a sponge before it quits doing it. Russ
If it has recently rained hard, I can dry out the bilge completely then I find that a cup or so of water magically re-appears in the bilge for the next few days. I've been able to track it down to the stringers that run parallel to the keel. They have a foam liner in them and they will soak up a good amount of water and slowly let it back out. It usually takes two or three iterations of soaking up that last bit of water with a sponge before it quits doing it. Russ
Same boat, same problem
Kevin, I have the same problem and yesterday, while underway in a stiff breeze I spent some time looking for potential sources. I have searched for this leak for a year and I am confident it is not a leak from the deck. During the preparation while the boat was on the trailer in front of my house without a cover it rained pretty hard and I used my power washed to clean all the oak leaves/droppings .... I did not find any water in the bilge after all this water. I agree with Joe. The outlet for the self bailing hose from the cockpit and the bottom gudgeon are under water most of the time while I am underway - at least when I have my weight looking over the stern and we are ploughing through 3 to 5 ft waves. Also while underway I took the opportunity to open the lazarette and stick my head as far down as I could and ..... look (this was not a particuallry good experience - upside down, boat bouncing and .... ughhh. Nothing was obviously leaking but the gudgeon bolts are rusty. If I can I will take this apart when I haul the boat this winter and re-caulk and if necessary replace the nuts and bolts. I have heard that one way to find a leak is to put some talcum powder on the area where you think it is leaking .... then after the sail look and see if you can see any tracks showing where the talc has been removed. This might be difficult with white on white but I am going to give it a shot. Pleasse post what you find since this is a common problem. James O'Day 23 SV Bognor Limey Bullock's Cove RI
Kevin, I have the same problem and yesterday, while underway in a stiff breeze I spent some time looking for potential sources. I have searched for this leak for a year and I am confident it is not a leak from the deck. During the preparation while the boat was on the trailer in front of my house without a cover it rained pretty hard and I used my power washed to clean all the oak leaves/droppings .... I did not find any water in the bilge after all this water. I agree with Joe. The outlet for the self bailing hose from the cockpit and the bottom gudgeon are under water most of the time while I am underway - at least when I have my weight looking over the stern and we are ploughing through 3 to 5 ft waves. Also while underway I took the opportunity to open the lazarette and stick my head as far down as I could and ..... look (this was not a particuallry good experience - upside down, boat bouncing and .... ughhh. Nothing was obviously leaking but the gudgeon bolts are rusty. If I can I will take this apart when I haul the boat this winter and re-caulk and if necessary replace the nuts and bolts. I have heard that one way to find a leak is to put some talcum powder on the area where you think it is leaking .... then after the sail look and see if you can see any tracks showing where the talc has been removed. This might be difficult with white on white but I am going to give it a shot. Pleasse post what you find since this is a common problem. James O'Day 23 SV Bognor Limey Bullock's Cove RI
I also have this problem, but it is most evident after a hard rain. Rain seems to bring water into the cabin, most noticeably in the V-berth, where after an especially hard rain, the carpeting on the sides of the berth will be damp and a small pool of water will form on the v-berth floor, usually on the starboard side. (I've removed the cushions from the v-berth because they keep getting damp.) A small amount of water will also be in the bilge. When I look at the inside of the hull (through the small holds in the v-berth floor), I can see no evidence of water flowing down into the bilge. But as I said, the carpeting and v-berth floor will be wet. Initially, I thought the water was coming in from some of the deck hardware, but now I'm suspecting the rub rail. Joe, is this what you mean by "gunwale molding"? And if so, do you expect that I will have to remove it and recaulk it? Thanks for the help. Bob
It's the same story
with our 23'. I never find any water after a good sail. Most often noticed after a hard rain I'll find visible water under the port side V berth cushion. After checking everything I believe the water is coming through the attachment points for the rubrail. I don't particulary want to remove the rubrail. It's the original so I don't think it will be reuseable after being removed. I'm not inclined to replace it right now. I just keep an eye on it.
with our 23'. I never find any water after a good sail. Most often noticed after a hard rain I'll find visible water under the port side V berth cushion. After checking everything I believe the water is coming through the attachment points for the rubrail. I don't particulary want to remove the rubrail. It's the original so I don't think it will be reuseable after being removed. I'm not inclined to replace it right now. I just keep an eye on it.
Bob, Yes. Your problem is behind the Rub rail, or gunwale molding, where the deck and hull come together, and you'll have to remove it. It's not a hard job to remove the gunwale molding on your boat. The screws that hold the molding on are behind the rubber. It's easier to do it on dry land though. Don't remove all of the moldings at once. I'm not sure how the moldings are put together on your boat, or whether you have the same type that is on my 222, but my moldings are made of Aluminum and it is slotted for a rubber that fits in the molding all the way around the boat. I doubt if your molding is one complete molding with no breaks in it. The rubber is continuous on my boat and it comes together at my stern. Two screws hold each side of the rubber at the stern. Just remove those screws. Check your molding on your boat and see if you can find where it butts up. On my boat, the molding butts up on the port side just before the bow. In fact, I think that my moldings were in three pieces. All I did was remove the rubber from the stern to the point near the Port bow where the moldings comes together . Then I removed the screws that hold the Aluminum molding, and removed it. I cleaned the area, caulked it, then re-installed that molding and inserted the rubber back in. Then I did the Starboard side the same way by starting at the Stern and working toward the bow. The water is coming in through the screw holes on your boat under that rub rail or gunwale molding. It's really not that bad of a job and you don't have to replace anything other than new caulking. Be careful of certain cleansers that have Oxalic Acid. One of my many boat books "Good Boat Keeping" has a whole lot of useful tips. They point out that supermarket cleansers, like Zud Cleanser has Oxalic Acid and will remove stains in fiberglass, and it will, but what the neglect to mention is that it will also eat out all your caulking on your deck. I found this out the hard way, so I want to pass this on to you. You'll never go wrong by using good old soap and water on your deck. As far as getting at my gudgeons and the self bailing hose to remove them and caulking them; I installed a 6" beckson deck plate on my inner transom. It's a lot safer than trying to get at them through the hatch on my cockpit seat. I must have looked funny the day I got stuck in my cockpit hatch with my feet sticking out, calling for help that never came. Talk about "Scary" predicaments! These boats shouldn't leak a drop. Good luck Bob, and let me know how you made out. Smooth Sailing! Joe
Rub Rails
Steve, Unless your rub rail is made of plastic, and it seems that I've seen some cheap plastic rub rails on a 1975 O'Day 25 that a friend of mine used to own, you can remove it and put it back with no problem. As I mentioned to Bob though; Just remove part of it at a time, caulk under it, and re-install it. Then do the next half of it. It's not that hard to do. All you need is a screw driver and the Polysulfide caulking. Joe
Steve, Unless your rub rail is made of plastic, and it seems that I've seen some cheap plastic rub rails on a 1975 O'Day 25 that a friend of mine used to own, you can remove it and put it back with no problem. As I mentioned to Bob though; Just remove part of it at a time, caulk under it, and re-install it. Then do the next half of it. It's not that hard to do. All you need is a screw driver and the Polysulfide caulking. Joe
Bob
Our 23' is a 1980 model. It has the white pvc cap and the black rubber (not so soft) insert. I'm not sure I would be able to remove the rubber without further damaging the cap as it is now somewhat prone to cracking due to it's age. There are some areas where the previous owner(s) inflicted some damage to the cap when they hit hard. The rubber insert has lost a great deal of it's flexibility. The small amount of leaking isn't worth the time, effort or potential cost right now. I not saying I wouldn't want it fixed I just prefer to enjoy the sailing now and working on the boat in the off season. The to-do list is shrinking so maybe this off season I'll tackle it.
Our 23' is a 1980 model. It has the white pvc cap and the black rubber (not so soft) insert. I'm not sure I would be able to remove the rubber without further damaging the cap as it is now somewhat prone to cracking due to it's age. There are some areas where the previous owner(s) inflicted some damage to the cap when they hit hard. The rubber insert has lost a great deal of it's flexibility. The small amount of leaking isn't worth the time, effort or potential cost right now. I not saying I wouldn't want it fixed I just prefer to enjoy the sailing now and working on the boat in the off season. The to-do list is shrinking so maybe this off season I'll tackle it.
Thanks for the Suggestions
Joe, Thanks for this detailed and helpful response (as always!). I won't be able to get to my boat until the weekend, but I think my rub rail is like Steve's: black rubber on top of white plastic molding (not aluminum like yours). I have a 1983 Oday 23. The rubber seems to be in good shape, but as I write this I am recalling a crack in the white molding right at the point of the bow, which I noticed when I was caulking the tow ring and adjusting my headstay. If I'm right about that, it would seem that the job of removing and recaulking the rub rail and gunwale molding will be a somewhat more complicated job than you describe. So like Steve, I'm hesitant because I may be creating a bigger job than I can handle at the moment. I'll look this weekend and see what I find. Steve, I understand your point about the tradeoff. But I'm not sure I can find the area that is leaking to try to caulk it without actually removing the rub rail and molding, as Joe describes. Also, I'm worried that continued leaking will compromise the deck if some of the water is finding its way to the core (which seems likely). I think I should have read this website before I bought this boat last year! I'm spending more time learning how to repair the boat than I am learning how to sail! Bob
Joe, Thanks for this detailed and helpful response (as always!). I won't be able to get to my boat until the weekend, but I think my rub rail is like Steve's: black rubber on top of white plastic molding (not aluminum like yours). I have a 1983 Oday 23. The rubber seems to be in good shape, but as I write this I am recalling a crack in the white molding right at the point of the bow, which I noticed when I was caulking the tow ring and adjusting my headstay. If I'm right about that, it would seem that the job of removing and recaulking the rub rail and gunwale molding will be a somewhat more complicated job than you describe. So like Steve, I'm hesitant because I may be creating a bigger job than I can handle at the moment. I'll look this weekend and see what I find. Steve, I understand your point about the tradeoff. But I'm not sure I can find the area that is leaking to try to caulk it without actually removing the rub rail and molding, as Joe describes. Also, I'm worried that continued leaking will compromise the deck if some of the water is finding its way to the core (which seems likely). I think I should have read this website before I bought this boat last year! I'm spending more time learning how to repair the boat than I am learning how to sail! Bob
Same here
but I've decided that the boat has lasted this long with much less attention than I have given it to date. Previous owners really neglected it. I tackled the obvious issues, rebedded deck hardware, stantions, etc. Replaced things I knew needed it like the halyards and tiller. Complete bottom job last year down to the glass. Added a bimini, lines led aft, new vhf and battery. Sent the sails to SailCare last year. Like I said, it's time to slow down and enjoy it. It's a better boat now than when I purchased it two years ago. I'll get to the other issues in due time, after all it is not a $40,000 boat. I gave $4000 for it with a trailer and will probably get that when I upgrade. Unless the water is coming in a rate I can measure or I feel like I'm walking on a sponge when I go forward it's on my list and will get done when the seasons over. If your leak is gushing I guess I would bite the bullet and fix it now. If not, go out and enjoy it.
but I've decided that the boat has lasted this long with much less attention than I have given it to date. Previous owners really neglected it. I tackled the obvious issues, rebedded deck hardware, stantions, etc. Replaced things I knew needed it like the halyards and tiller. Complete bottom job last year down to the glass. Added a bimini, lines led aft, new vhf and battery. Sent the sails to SailCare last year. Like I said, it's time to slow down and enjoy it. It's a better boat now than when I purchased it two years ago. I'll get to the other issues in due time, after all it is not a $40,000 boat. I gave $4000 for it with a trailer and will probably get that when I upgrade. Unless the water is coming in a rate I can measure or I feel like I'm walking on a sponge when I go forward it's on my list and will get done when the seasons over. If your leak is gushing I guess I would bite the bullet and fix it now. If not, go out and enjoy it.
Plastic rub rails
Bob, Even though the rub rail may be plastic, the O'Day 23s that were built after 1974 are great boats according to Rudy at D & R Marine. So it is worth having it done even if you don't want to tackle the job yourself. I'm not sure that I'd want to try to install a new Aluminum rub rail, because it has to be bent at the bow and also both ends near the transom. I'd probably take it to somebody who does them, and pay them to do it. Give Rudy Nickerson a call and ask him about it. I know that he carries rub rail, but maybe he can give you more info on how to get it installed. I'm not sure if my friend ever replaced his plastic rub rail with metal, or just took it off and re-installed it after caulking his O'Day 25. His O'Day 25 is still at our club but it has a new owner. Anyway, some of the modifications that I did to my O'Day 222 came as standard equipment on your 23, like the full stern rail and the winches on the combing. The 23s are still great boats. Good luck with that. Joe
Bob, Even though the rub rail may be plastic, the O'Day 23s that were built after 1974 are great boats according to Rudy at D & R Marine. So it is worth having it done even if you don't want to tackle the job yourself. I'm not sure that I'd want to try to install a new Aluminum rub rail, because it has to be bent at the bow and also both ends near the transom. I'd probably take it to somebody who does them, and pay them to do it. Give Rudy Nickerson a call and ask him about it. I know that he carries rub rail, but maybe he can give you more info on how to get it installed. I'm not sure if my friend ever replaced his plastic rub rail with metal, or just took it off and re-installed it after caulking his O'Day 25. His O'Day 25 is still at our club but it has a new owner. Anyway, some of the modifications that I did to my O'Day 222 came as standard equipment on your 23, like the full stern rail and the winches on the combing. The 23s are still great boats. Good luck with that. Joe
check the locker gaskets
Wow, I didn't expect so many quick responses, but it seems this is a common problem for boat owners. I spent the first couple of years I owned this boat trying to track down the mysterious "only leaks after a hard rain". A gentle rain wasn't a problem, but after a hard downpour I'd get a pint of water in the bilge. Using the process of elimination I eventually tried putting a foam gasket on the lid of the large locker on the port side of the cockpit. Much to my surprise, the next time we got a hard rain, the bilge was dry as a bone. One problem solved! Now I am back to the process of elimination and am doing the easy things first. I crawled into that locker tonight and checked all the thru hulls and tightened up the hose clamps. Nothing seemed amiss. My next move is to have someone sail the boat with the rails down while I ride in the bilge with my flashlight, watching for leaks. Fortunately I am small enough that I can crawl in (and out) of that cockpit locker without too much trouble. I'll keep on it and let folks know when I track it down. I too would rather avoid tackling that rubrail.
Wow, I didn't expect so many quick responses, but it seems this is a common problem for boat owners. I spent the first couple of years I owned this boat trying to track down the mysterious "only leaks after a hard rain". A gentle rain wasn't a problem, but after a hard downpour I'd get a pint of water in the bilge. Using the process of elimination I eventually tried putting a foam gasket on the lid of the large locker on the port side of the cockpit. Much to my surprise, the next time we got a hard rain, the bilge was dry as a bone. One problem solved! Now I am back to the process of elimination and am doing the easy things first. I crawled into that locker tonight and checked all the thru hulls and tightened up the hose clamps. Nothing seemed amiss. My next move is to have someone sail the boat with the rails down while I ride in the bilge with my flashlight, watching for leaks. Fortunately I am small enough that I can crawl in (and out) of that cockpit locker without too much trouble. I'll keep on it and let folks know when I track it down. I too would rather avoid tackling that rubrail.
Plastic Rub Rails
Joe, I agree that the repair job is worth it. I love the boat and plan to keep it for a while. It's really in pretty good shape, and we've already begun making some improvements. (The previous owner did precious little to the boat aside from annual maintenance.) I'm just unsure about how much repairing I can do myself since I'm new to sailboats. And I have had a lot of trouble finding good people around here who can (and will) work on sailboats. I'm still making connections in the local sailing community, but it's becoming clear that dependable sailboat repair people and riggers are pretty rare around here. Kevin, let us know what you find out. I can't even imagine squeezing my frame into that cockpit locker! Bob
Joe, I agree that the repair job is worth it. I love the boat and plan to keep it for a while. It's really in pretty good shape, and we've already begun making some improvements. (The previous owner did precious little to the boat aside from annual maintenance.) I'm just unsure about how much repairing I can do myself since I'm new to sailboats. And I have had a lot of trouble finding good people around here who can (and will) work on sailboats. I'm still making connections in the local sailing community, but it's becoming clear that dependable sailboat repair people and riggers are pretty rare around here. Kevin, let us know what you find out. I can't even imagine squeezing my frame into that cockpit locker! Bob
3 new leaks
Hi Bob, We got a good hard rain today and since everything was dried out previously it was an excellent chance to crawl around all the nooks and crannies of my boat with a flashlight (yes, I even crawled into the cockpit locker again). Here is what I found: the port side chain plate is leaking, some of my deck hardware is leaking on the port side (resulting in a drip into the cockpit locker)and three small screws that hold the front of the gas can locker on the starboard side of the cockpit are also leaking. Together these leaks resulted in about a cup of water in the bilge. I feel much better now that I have somewhere to start. Sometimes it feels like owning a sailboat is just an ongoing maintenance project. I probably won't get at it this week as I am hoping to go cruising this weekend. Our summers are so short, I should probably spend more time sailing and less time working on the boat.
Hi Bob, We got a good hard rain today and since everything was dried out previously it was an excellent chance to crawl around all the nooks and crannies of my boat with a flashlight (yes, I even crawled into the cockpit locker again). Here is what I found: the port side chain plate is leaking, some of my deck hardware is leaking on the port side (resulting in a drip into the cockpit locker)and three small screws that hold the front of the gas can locker on the starboard side of the cockpit are also leaking. Together these leaks resulted in about a cup of water in the bilge. I feel much better now that I have somewhere to start. Sometimes it feels like owning a sailboat is just an ongoing maintenance project. I probably won't get at it this week as I am hoping to go cruising this weekend. Our summers are so short, I should probably spend more time sailing and less time working on the boat.
Three New Leaks
Kevin, It's obviously a good thing that you've actually found the leaks. I'm envious! I suspect Joe is right that I have a leak in my gunwale molding, and I'm also pretty sure that there is a leak on my port chainplate as well. There are probably others, too. I just don't yet know where they all are! You're right: owning a sailboat is an ongoing maintenance project! Have fun cruising. We plan to sail this weekend, and the weather is looking cooperative. Bob
Kevin, It's obviously a good thing that you've actually found the leaks. I'm envious! I suspect Joe is right that I have a leak in my gunwale molding, and I'm also pretty sure that there is a leak on my port chainplate as well. There are probably others, too. I just don't yet know where they all are! You're right: owning a sailboat is an ongoing maintenance project! Have fun cruising. We plan to sail this weekend, and the weather is looking cooperative. Bob
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