Pearson Ensign a good first boat (given context in the post)?

[rgranger]

Gotcha. Thank you, makes sense!

Re: 240. The main sail looked quite new (virtually unused). When you say that I'd need a new main sail, are you referring to purchasing a different type of main sail? or just replacing the existing one?

Replacing.

When I got my H26, I had to reef in anything over 10 mph. She would heel hard and round up in anything over 12 ... then I got new sails, and added a traveler and I was loving it. But I did learn that the H26 (with the extra big main) liked to sail with the main let out more (on a reach) than other boats I've sailed. In the end, you sail flatter but the boat will hit hull speed easily. The 23.5 and the 240 are both very similar boats to the H26. There is also an H260.

The only real advantage to the water ballast boats is that you can have a larger cruising boat that can dump its ballast when it is on the trailer and make it easier to tow. So this may become something important to you later but based upon what you said you are trying to do with this first boat... they may not be what you want.

 

[jssailem]

You need to look at the design to understand the designers intended use of the boat.

1. Pearson-Ensign​

The Ensign was developed from the Alberg-designed Electra. The Electra design was a commission by Pearson Yachts in 1959 to produce a Midget Ocean Racing Club (MORC) racer. The resulting design was quite successful and about 350 were completed during its six-year production run. Pearson's dealers thought that customers would prefer a design with a bigger cockpit and less space below decks for use in one-design racing and day sailing. Alberg designed the Ensign using the same hull, but with the mast moved 6 in (15 cm) forward, a larger mainsail and smaller fore-triangle. ​

​

The design has a PHRF racing average handicap of 258 and a hull speed of 5.48 kn (10.15 km/h) ​

​

My thoughts - She will handle well in moderate to heavy winds. Her long keel will let her track well. Being a fractional rig her power in in the main sail She will have a tendency to heel early and I expect likely become solid at 20deg heel. This will be fine for the racing crew, but not all guests may feel comfortable. Reefing the Main early will help keep her feet under her. With a displacement of 3,000 lb (1,361 kg) and 1,200 lb (544 kg) of ballast she is likely to feel slow in light breezes. The long keel with mounted rudder will help her go in a straight line with a light hand on the tiller. She will not be agile in tight quarters.​

2. Catalina 22 and Hunter 22​

there are strong similarities in the designs of these 2 boats. They were built to be trailer-able sailboats. With this type of design they both will be very maneuverable in tight spaces.​

• Hunter 22 Centerboard This model has a length overall of 22.25 ft (6.8 m), a waterline length of 18.33 ft (5.6 m), displaces 3,200 lb (1,451 kg) and carries 1,300 lb (590 kg) of iron ballast. The boat has a draft of 5.00 ft (1.52 m) with the centerboard extended and 1.92 ft (0.59 m) with it retracted, allowing beaching or ground transportation on a trailer. The boat has a PHRF racing average handicap of 255 with a high of 251 and low of 270. It has a hull speed of 5.74 kn(10.63 km/h)
  • 
• The Catalina 22 comes in several variants dependent on year of build.
  • Catalina 22 introduced in 1969 - centerboard
  • Catalina 22 "New Design" in 1986
  • Catalina 22 Mark II This model was introduced in 1995 and produced until 2004
  • Catalina 22 Sport This model was introduced in 2004 and remains in production
  • Catalina swing keel/centerboard
  • 

 

[jon hansen]

the ensign is the prettiest girl at the dance. best dancer too.

now what are you going to pick?

me? there is no choice.

now for my kids i bought them a 69' cal 20. replaced all the sub deck plywood, bought new sails, and painted her, tweeked the trailer, great keel boat but no ensign on looks.

we have a fleet of ensigns that hit the starting line every thursday, just like they have for the last 50/60 years. the cal catches too much seaweed to race in downtown sturge.

pretty girls are extra work but worth it i think

fiberglass sailboats without wood accents are butt ugly! that's right, i said what everyone knows. sorry dave

 

[Anchored87]

@rgranger @jssailem @jon hansen and everyone else, thanks for all of your input. There’s a lot to think about and consider. As of now, I think I’m leaning towards the ensign, but I just need to figure out the mooring and bailing situation if I go that route. I’ll keep you all updated as I move through the process. Thanks again!

 

[Alan Gomes]

For the use and service you need, better find a well maintained later model Catalina 25, or something similar. A Cal 25-2 would be really good, too,

Or maybe an Ericson 26?

 

[jssailem]

Small Craft Advisors offered up this idea for a first boat. It may not hit all your wants, but it is an interesting pocket yacht.
Hunter 18.5
Simple, fun and forgiving—perfect for the sailing family

Hunter 18.5

Simple, fun and forgiving—perfect for the sailing family

open.substack.com

 

[rgranger]

I don't want to piss in anyone's pot. I have the sailboat bug bad and I have sympothy for anyone else who has this dissease. For example, here is a pic of my backyard just a few years ago..

so I will make this point one last time and then I will support what ever decision you make... I know I have made more than one emotional decision in my time...

I think leaving a boat that is not self bailing on a mooring .. is asking for real heart ache. The probability that you will have to float a $unk boat is high. And the probability of tarnishing this dream (for ever) is also high.

If you go with the Ensign, I'd recommend finding a place nearby that will let you keep it on a trailer. You can properly tarp it on the trailer to keep most of the rain out.

 

[Anchored87]

I don't want to piss in anyone's pot. I have the sailboat bug bad and I have sympothy for anyone else who has this dissease. For example, here is a pic of my backyard just a few years ago..

View attachment 218444

so I will make this point one last time and then I will support what ever decision you make... I know I have made more than one emotional decision in my time...

I think leaving a boat that is not self bailing on a mooring .. is asking for real heart ache. The probability that you will have to float a $unk boat is high. And the probability of tarnishing this dream (for ever) is also high.

If you go with the Ensign, I'd recommend finding a place nearby that will let you keep it on a trailer. You can properly tarp it on the trailer to keep most of the rain out.

Thanks. Point very well taken. I’m in the process of looking into slips as well as marinas that are set up to lift for every launch. If those are not available, I’ll likely opt for a Catalina 22 or that Hunter 240. As I mentioned earlier, this first boat is really just to get us sailing and learning. If we end up not loving certain aspects of the production boats, I’m ok with that for now as long as it doesn’t deter us from getting on the water. With that said, I’d prefer the ensign if I could make it work as I loved how it sailed. I also think there’s something nice and fulfilling about having a project to maintain her bright work in the off season.

 

[rgranger]

I also think there’s something nice and fulfilling about having a project to maintain her bright work in the off season.

That is definitly part of the sickness.

Here is a thread started three years ago by @TomY. He asked a very similar question ... and the Cape Dory Typhoon was the center of that discussion. I've seen a few out here in the Charleston harbor. They sail like a true yatch but are small enough to man-handle in and out of a slip or on and off of a trailer.

Is a Cape Dory Typhoon a good first sailboat for 2 families?

I thought so, knowing the families, so I went and took a look at one at our YMCA annual auction. Sorry, I have no pics of the one they bought, yet, but here's a pristine restored Typhoon: Ok, it wasn't as fine as this one but still in great condition, well equipped and cared for and for sale...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[shemandr]

The CD Typhoon is a good boat too. Very stable and forgiving. I think it is self bailing but I’m not sure. You can sleep in the cabin - tent style. The Ensign probably sails a bit better but the Typhoon is a real sailboat. I think it sails better than the CD 25.

 

[jon hansen]

Ensign 22 Sailboat Covers -- The Sailors Tailor

Manufacturer of Ensign 22 Sailboat Covers and 250+ other One Design Boat Covers and Accessories since 1972.

www.sailorstailor.com

keeping an ensign afloat has already been thought out.

 

[jon hansen]

growing up, dad had a 38' alden racer, ( U.S. ONE DESIGN), wood, no selfbailing cockpit, no electric bildge pump. it never sank, nor did any of the boats like her.
at our club were a large fleet of dragons, wood boats, no selfbailing cockpits. none sank.

a fiberglass ensign is super easy to maintain and operate. easy peezee boys.

 

[Rick486]

growing up, dad had a 38' alden racer, ( U.S. ONE DESIGN), wood, no selfbailing cockpit, no electric bildge pump. it never sank, nor did any of the boats like her.
at our club were a large fleet of dragons, wood boats, no selfbailing cockpits. none sank.

a fiberglass ensign is super easy to maintain and operate. easy peezee boys.

We have a Shields swamp and sink in RI Sound back in the day.....they successfully salvaged her....

 

[jon hansen]

.......................... you do have to pay attention to the details.

 

[Qomomoko]

Thanks for the list and the questions:

1. Very. I expect the majority of the summer sail's (with the family) to include a swim in the bay. Was thinking of getting a ladder that could go over the side of the ensign? Or would you recommend getting a boat specifically designed with an open transom / ladder? I looked at a Hunter 240 yesterday, which has a built in ladder on the transom, and really liked it but wasn't ready to pull the trigger. I took her for a test sail and she seemed much lighter compared to the ensign. It was a light day and we even had trouble swinging her bow through the wind on a tack (just the mainsail was used). So I was hesitant in that regard as well;
2. I'd say it's important-ish. The ensign had an easy enough rig for me to handle (albeit, actively) with the main and jib I think.

I'll look at some of the other boats you've mentioned but I think the Catalina 22 and the Hunter 240 are strong contenders if I'm not going to take the ensign. As @Scott T-Bird mentioned, the ensign is readily available right now so I'm trying to determine if these things are worth a full search or if the ensign will fit for these purposes (with some compromises).

I don't expect this first boat to be a forever boat. Perhaps 5 years or less. I'm aiming to learn, get the family used to sailing, and figuring out what we actually want/need.

Hello

My experience in Sailing is limited, only 2 years or so but it has all been on ENSIGNS!!
Every 2 weeks my friends Group of 8 we go sailing (but a max crew of 4); we honestly prefer 3.
Because of the tiller, more than 4 people and it is cumbersome; not enough space.
They heel on winds above 12 kts. At above 15 or max 18 I recommend reefing though it will be fun!
My pug only comes with me on cloudy cold days because it is a HOT cockpit; 1 week of the year lol
The wood gets hot and there is no shade.
Only 2 of the 8 go of in a swim on the ensign. IT IS NOT EASY TO GE TON even with a rope swim ladder.
If you guys are young and in shape, then yeah going for a swim in it is no biggie.
The ensigns I use are from the sailing club I belong too. 3 Pearson Engsigns and 1 Windward 24.
They bilge stays pretty dry as the the battery is hooked to a small solar panel
They are club boats and get sailed at least 1 x per week so are not abandoned for months.
The cabin, it is hot, mostly just for storage. I could not see anyone sleeping in there lol.

In the club, there are another 3 private Ensigns. I bet they are the most sailed of all the sailboats lol

-Solo sailing? yep but I recommend in winds below 10 knots.
- We prefer to go out with wind above 8 knots, at 6 knots only for solo sailing practice.
(EDIT)

Hope that helps.

 

[Siamese]

Nice boat, and pretty. But there are numerous better choices for the uses you have described.

And, why would you want all that wood? There's plenty to maintain on a boat without having to maintain wood. Aside from aesthetics, it serves no purpose. And consider that the worst possible finish for wood kept outdoors is a clear finish. There are 240 boats in my marina, and I can count on one hand the boats with properly maintained wood trim. Remember, when you've prepped the wood, and you're on your fifth coat of varnish, you might as well be breaking rocks. Actually, you'd be better off breaking rocks, because they stay broken. Varnish is temporary.

You can pound a square peg into a round hole with enough effort and a willingness to accept the result, but why not find yourself a round peg?

 

[Anchored87]

Thanks all. I’ve moved on from the Ensign for multiple reasons mentioned here.

Im now considering a ComPac 23 or a Catalina 25. I think those may be more amenable to a mooring and sailing with an infant.

cc @rgranger

 

[rgranger]

Thanks all. I’ve moved on from the Ensign for multiple reasons mentioned here.

Im now considering a ComPac 23 or a Catalina 25. I think those may be more amenable to a mooring and sailing with an infant.

cc @rgranger

The ComPac 23 is a very nice boat. I've never been on a Catalina 25 but I have been on a Catalina 250.... which is Catalina's water ballast analogy to the Hunter 260. The 250 was a very comfortable sailing boat.

In addition to the boats listed here at SBO, Another great place to search for sailboats is a website called "sailboatlistings.com"

Try Compac sailboats for sale by owner.