I'm close to buying a boat (used) for some long term cruising, possibly several months at a time. While much of it will be coastal cruising we'll probably be offshore from time to time. I understand the Hunter Passage models are built to different specifications than the Legend models and better suited for offshore. I'd be interested in some enlightment here if someone would offer it. I'd try on another BB (such as Cruising World) but by expereince from other posts seems like all you get is the old "Ford is better then Chevy" baloney. I know there is a compromise with any production boat whether it is Hunter, Catalina or Beneteau. I'm just looking to make the best decision I can based on facts. The Passage 42 is one we are seriously looking at. any feedback on the 42 would also be apprecated.
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To my knowledge
... the only difference in the Passage and Legend models is the location of the cockpit. Passages are all center cockpit; Legends are all aft cockpits. So far as I know, the construction methods are the same. The Passages might be equipped a bit better, though.
... the only difference in the Passage and Legend models is the location of the cockpit. Passages are all center cockpit; Legends are all aft cockpits. So far as I know, the construction methods are the same. The Passages might be equipped a bit better, though.
passage vs legend
i own a 1995 legend 40.5 and use it in the same way as you plan....i also understand that the legend and passage models have similiar construction....i feel it's a matter of personal preference for a center or aft cockpet model..... if your preference is for a passage 42, that is a very popular model for long- term liveaboard/cruisers....i'm sure you'd be satisfied with that model, although as you recognize all boats have strengths and weaknesses....check the archives and reviews for comments by passage 42 owners... if you are interested in the 40.5, i'll be happy to share detailed comments....the bottom line is it is a great boat and a tremendous value...bob s/v reliance....sailor1543@aol,com
i own a 1995 legend 40.5 and use it in the same way as you plan....i also understand that the legend and passage models have similiar construction....i feel it's a matter of personal preference for a center or aft cockpet model..... if your preference is for a passage 42, that is a very popular model for long- term liveaboard/cruisers....i'm sure you'd be satisfied with that model, although as you recognize all boats have strengths and weaknesses....check the archives and reviews for comments by passage 42 owners... if you are interested in the 40.5, i'll be happy to share detailed comments....the bottom line is it is a great boat and a tremendous value...bob s/v reliance....sailor1543@aol,com
P42--a decent cruiser
I have a 1990 P42 that I've taken from California to New Zealand and back on the coconut milk run during a two year voyage. Now refitting it for the same trip, but for longer (maybe five years or so). It performs reasonably well offshore. It heaves to well, and will handle rough weather with minimum discomfort. If you don't have a inner forestay, I'd recommend installing one and putting a storm staysail on it. We found that a major help in winds over 25 knots. The only problems we encountered (out of the ordinary) were with the poor anchoring system (which we've since overhauled and modified). The rest of the boat performed well, and we're satisfied to be taking her out again for at least another 25,000 miles.
I have a 1990 P42 that I've taken from California to New Zealand and back on the coconut milk run during a two year voyage. Now refitting it for the same trip, but for longer (maybe five years or so). It performs reasonably well offshore. It heaves to well, and will handle rough weather with minimum discomfort. If you don't have a inner forestay, I'd recommend installing one and putting a storm staysail on it. We found that a major help in winds over 25 knots. The only problems we encountered (out of the ordinary) were with the poor anchoring system (which we've since overhauled and modified). The rest of the boat performed well, and we're satisfied to be taking her out again for at least another 25,000 miles.
anchor modification
Paul, In your post you state that you've modified your anchor system on your 42. If you've cured the problem of chain balling up beneath the windlass, I would really be interested in what you did. Thanks, bill walton
Paul, In your post you state that you've modified your anchor system on your 42. If you've cured the problem of chain balling up beneath the windlass, I would really be interested in what you did. Thanks, bill walton
Anchor
PAUL, What is your change to the anchor system on your P42-----PLEASE Jim Trammell JTramm9698@aol.com
PAUL, What is your change to the anchor system on your P42-----PLEASE Jim Trammell JTramm9698@aol.com
Windlass modification
I wish I had some wisdom to offer on modifying the anchor system, but I don't. I still have that terrible problem of hand tailing the chain rode as it comes off the windlass. I have 350' of 5/16" proof coil and a 60 lb. CQR primary anchor. I had a stainless steel worker cut the end off the long left side of the bow roller and then flair back the new ends to match the shorter left side of the roller. I put the CQR into the roller and drilled a hole through both the roller and the anchor to secure it while under way. The Maxwell 700 was too underpowered for the rode and anchor, so I upgraded to a Maxwell 1200. The new Maxwell windlasses have different machining on the backings, and I didn't want to drill more holes in the boat, so I had my stainless worker modify the old backing to fit the new machining on the Maxwell 1200 (it has a larger shaft and different mounting bolt configuration). My windlass now has plenty of pull. I figured that the only way to fix the problem with hand-tailing the rode would be to get a straight drop. That would require deck mounting a new windlass further aft and creating a drop chute that would use PVC pipe that would drop into the bilge area toward the aft end of the forepeak bunk. Didn't like that. Otherwise, cut a hole in the anchor locker and have the windlass drop the chain straight down into the bilge area there, but that's where the forward water tank lives. Also no good. Don't want to get a new boat because it'll cut into the cruising kitty too much. So I'm living with hand-tailing the rode. A very dangerous situation in rough anchor pick-ups, but I see no alternative. One further modification I plan to make is to install a switch in the anchor locker for downward windlass direction. That will permit me to reverse the windlass direction when I double wrap the anchor rode while raising the anchor. Releasing the clutch in such a situation often leads to uncontrolled dropping. Trying to keep all my fingers intact. I would LOVE to hear if anybody has any ideas on solving the problems we all encounter on anchoring with the P42s. My email is paulcossman@hotmail.com.
I wish I had some wisdom to offer on modifying the anchor system, but I don't. I still have that terrible problem of hand tailing the chain rode as it comes off the windlass. I have 350' of 5/16" proof coil and a 60 lb. CQR primary anchor. I had a stainless steel worker cut the end off the long left side of the bow roller and then flair back the new ends to match the shorter left side of the roller. I put the CQR into the roller and drilled a hole through both the roller and the anchor to secure it while under way. The Maxwell 700 was too underpowered for the rode and anchor, so I upgraded to a Maxwell 1200. The new Maxwell windlasses have different machining on the backings, and I didn't want to drill more holes in the boat, so I had my stainless worker modify the old backing to fit the new machining on the Maxwell 1200 (it has a larger shaft and different mounting bolt configuration). My windlass now has plenty of pull. I figured that the only way to fix the problem with hand-tailing the rode would be to get a straight drop. That would require deck mounting a new windlass further aft and creating a drop chute that would use PVC pipe that would drop into the bilge area toward the aft end of the forepeak bunk. Didn't like that. Otherwise, cut a hole in the anchor locker and have the windlass drop the chain straight down into the bilge area there, but that's where the forward water tank lives. Also no good. Don't want to get a new boat because it'll cut into the cruising kitty too much. So I'm living with hand-tailing the rode. A very dangerous situation in rough anchor pick-ups, but I see no alternative. One further modification I plan to make is to install a switch in the anchor locker for downward windlass direction. That will permit me to reverse the windlass direction when I double wrap the anchor rode while raising the anchor. Releasing the clutch in such a situation often leads to uncontrolled dropping. Trying to keep all my fingers intact. I would LOVE to hear if anybody has any ideas on solving the problems we all encounter on anchoring with the P42s. My email is paulcossman@hotmail.com.
two problems
Paul, your last post said you are using Proof Cail chain. MOST modern windlass gypsies are designed either for BBB or High Test chain. This may very well be your problem. Check with the owners manual or call the windlass manufacturer's customer service number. I know this may sound wacky, but the stripper on many systems won't work with Proof Coil. A further problem may be that you've got way too much chain for that boat. Your post said that you carry 350' (not to mention a 60-pound anchor). Call hunter about that, because if the chain doesn't have room to drop, it won't. I'm using 200 feet of 5/16" BBB (Hunter recommended 150) and find this to be a perfect amount for my 410's anchor locker, which is set up pretty much like yours. Besides, at the 5-to-1 ratio for all-chain scope, you're carrying enough rode to anchor in 70 feet of water. Seems like overkill to me, having never once had to anchor in anything deeper than 40'. (But of course I don't anchor in Alaska as a general rule.)
Paul, your last post said you are using Proof Cail chain. MOST modern windlass gypsies are designed either for BBB or High Test chain. This may very well be your problem. Check with the owners manual or call the windlass manufacturer's customer service number. I know this may sound wacky, but the stripper on many systems won't work with Proof Coil. A further problem may be that you've got way too much chain for that boat. Your post said that you carry 350' (not to mention a 60-pound anchor). Call hunter about that, because if the chain doesn't have room to drop, it won't. I'm using 200 feet of 5/16" BBB (Hunter recommended 150) and find this to be a perfect amount for my 410's anchor locker, which is set up pretty much like yours. Besides, at the 5-to-1 ratio for all-chain scope, you're carrying enough rode to anchor in 70 feet of water. Seems like overkill to me, having never once had to anchor in anything deeper than 40'. (But of course I don't anchor in Alaska as a general rule.)
chain. locker, and the P42
Hi John, Up here in Seattle I'd say my average anchoring depth was 40', sometimes 50, and one day I actually day-anchored (for a concert off the Seattle waterfront) in 90! Desolation Sound can easily require 60' at high tide. You've just been spoiled by SF Bay, where in Sausalito you can simply let your wing keel do the anchoring for you.
This anchoring depth question would make a good quiz, you know? The issue Paul's talking about is perhaps the classic flaw in the P42, and one that I've never seen solved. The shape of the anchor locker and position of the windlass drops the chain onto a 'shelf' which does not have enough incline to move the chain down into the locker. I used 50' of chain and 300' of nylon rode and had to tail the chain, just as Paul describes. I do believe the 300' of chain would fit in the locker, though. That's an interesting point about the chain size. I don't recall now what mine was. That would certainly make a difference.
Hi John, Up here in Seattle I'd say my average anchoring depth was 40', sometimes 50, and one day I actually day-anchored (for a concert off the Seattle waterfront) in 90! Desolation Sound can easily require 60' at high tide. You've just been spoiled by SF Bay, where in Sausalito you can simply let your wing keel do the anchoring for you.
This anchoring depth question would make a good quiz, you know? The issue Paul's talking about is perhaps the classic flaw in the P42, and one that I've never seen solved. The shape of the anchor locker and position of the windlass drops the chain onto a 'shelf' which does not have enough incline to move the chain down into the locker. I used 50' of chain and 300' of nylon rode and had to tail the chain, just as Paul describes. I do believe the 300' of chain would fit in the locker, though. That's an interesting point about the chain size. I don't recall now what mine was. That would certainly make a difference.P42 windlass chain-tailing problem
Jim, Thanks for your thoughts. My old Maxwell 700 Windlass had a 5/16" proof coil cathead which I purchased specifically for that chain. When I installed my new Maxwell 1200 windlass, I made it a point to again obtain the specific Maxwell cathead for 5/16" proof coil chain. The cathead, unfortunately, is not the problem. I know that 350' of chain is a lot. When I anchored in the atolls of the South Pacific, I found that I often anchored in 85'. I like to have adequate scope, which for me is 4:1 when using full chain rode. (I've seen too many boats drag onto coral reefs). I do not use nylon since coral chews nylon rode to pieces in no time at all. I am again heading to the South Pacific this fall, and therefore need all the chain. I know this is a lot of weight, so I have reinforced the anchor locker with additional fiberglassing. I also usually keep only about 15 gallons of water in the forward water tank--using it for my watermaker water stowage---so as to keep the bow weight down. For longer crossings, I stow the rode and anchor in the bilge. I made a little teak platform that sits on the ledge of the bilge just under the center settee in the salon, and it fits nicely in there. This moves the weight aft, and also permits me to set up my sea anchor and rode in the anchor locker for immediate deployment. The problem lies not in the weight of the chain, or the type of cathead. Unfortunately it is a design flaw (that Hunter has corrected with later boats). Chain cannot fall at an angle of more than about 10 or 15 degrees before it bunches up. Even 20' of chain will require hand tailing. I wish I knew how to solve that problem. If you have other ideas, please let me know. I appreciate all help.
Jim, Thanks for your thoughts. My old Maxwell 700 Windlass had a 5/16" proof coil cathead which I purchased specifically for that chain. When I installed my new Maxwell 1200 windlass, I made it a point to again obtain the specific Maxwell cathead for 5/16" proof coil chain. The cathead, unfortunately, is not the problem. I know that 350' of chain is a lot. When I anchored in the atolls of the South Pacific, I found that I often anchored in 85'. I like to have adequate scope, which for me is 4:1 when using full chain rode. (I've seen too many boats drag onto coral reefs). I do not use nylon since coral chews nylon rode to pieces in no time at all. I am again heading to the South Pacific this fall, and therefore need all the chain. I know this is a lot of weight, so I have reinforced the anchor locker with additional fiberglassing. I also usually keep only about 15 gallons of water in the forward water tank--using it for my watermaker water stowage---so as to keep the bow weight down. For longer crossings, I stow the rode and anchor in the bilge. I made a little teak platform that sits on the ledge of the bilge just under the center settee in the salon, and it fits nicely in there. This moves the weight aft, and also permits me to set up my sea anchor and rode in the anchor locker for immediate deployment. The problem lies not in the weight of the chain, or the type of cathead. Unfortunately it is a design flaw (that Hunter has corrected with later boats). Chain cannot fall at an angle of more than about 10 or 15 degrees before it bunches up. Even 20' of chain will require hand tailing. I wish I knew how to solve that problem. If you have other ideas, please let me know. I appreciate all help.
P42 anchorage rode dilemma
I just talked with a friend and fellow 42 owner who sails solo most of the time. He put forth the following description of what he has done. It works down here because the water is shallow enough. He caries 300 ft of chain rode like Paul. He has built a shelf across half of the locker. He keepsabout 225 feet of the rode on the shelf, letting about 75 feet coil in the bottom of the well. the anchor is attached to the short end. he tells me that almost all of the time, the chain gets enough velocity to self tail the 75 feet. In the Keys, 75 feet can give one 10:1 in many places.
I just talked with a friend and fellow 42 owner who sails solo most of the time. He put forth the following description of what he has done. It works down here because the water is shallow enough. He caries 300 ft of chain rode like Paul. He has built a shelf across half of the locker. He keepsabout 225 feet of the rode on the shelf, letting about 75 feet coil in the bottom of the well. the anchor is attached to the short end. he tells me that almost all of the time, the chain gets enough velocity to self tail the 75 feet. In the Keys, 75 feet can give one 10:1 in many places.
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