Passage 42 keel joint crack

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Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
Hello everyone,

Two years ago I posted about a crack in the keel joint of a Passage 42 I was considering buying... https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...2-with-small-crack-at-keel-hull-joint.181579/

Well, we bought it and have been enjoying the boat, but this year it was time to paint the bottom. Frankly I'd forgotten the crack even existed, but after it had been sitting in the yard a few days, I noticed some water had come out from the crack and the surface appeared appeared to be loose and peeling back around it. Just using my fingers I pulled off some stuff that look like about 1/8" layer of fairing compound and bottom paint that had delaminated or something...?

I attached a picture of what it looks like where I pulled it off... This pic is the port side of the aft end of the keel joint. In the pic it's kinda hard to tell how deep the hole is, but it's deeper than the paint and into a layer of fairing.

Underneath it looks/feels solid to me... So I was thinking I'd just fill it in with some thickened epoxy (or maybe schmear some 5200 in it) and then paint right over it...? Terrible idea? Is it even necessary?

Thanks,
Daniel
 

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Don S/V ILLusion

Don S/V ILLusion

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Sep 25, 2008
7,495
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
It appears cosmetic but I'd check each keel bolt for the specified torque. If you start seeing brown water (rust), dig deeper into the problem.
 
Terry Cox

Terry Cox

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Dec 25, 2000
5,945
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Hi Daniel, similar situation here. It appears from your original pictures that the keel stub joint has been compromised, likely from some sort of a hit. Sea water is seeping in, thus the water coming out while on the hard. Understanding how Hunter constructed these boats, it is unlikely that crack resulted from normal operation.

The correct way to fix it is to lift the boat off the keel, clean and fair the joint, re-bed with 3M-5200. Also, have the yard doing the repair add washers to the keel bolts in order to raise the keel nuts up into fresher threads just in case the hit damaged the original bolt threads. That is how we had our keel stub joint repaired in 2004.

After the boat was placed back on the keel and bolts torqued, the joint was sealed with two coats of barrier paint, followed by two coats of hard bottom paint, then two coats of ablative. The joint remains solid to this day after sailing thousands of miles all over PNW waters.
 
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KD3PC

KD3PC

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Sep 25, 2008
1,069
boatless rainbow Callao, VA
Daniel,

I am suggesting that the process presented by Terry (Above) is the best advice and as he has done - gets another decade or two from the boat, without touching the keel. You also have the comfort that things are as good as they can be.
 
W

Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
Hmm. I'm hesitant to arrive to the conclusion that the keel needs to be removed/replaced because the crack doesn't seem to go deeper than the surface and there are no signs of anything further forward. Unlike the "Catalina smile", this is on the aft end of the keel and the rest of the joint looks fine, at least to my untrained eye.

Maybe I should grind it back a little to make sure it doesn't go deeper? I should probably do that anyway before applying any fairing/filler since the exposed part got wet.

The water definitely didn't have any signs of rust and as far as I can tell it was just trapped beneath the delaminated outer layer and not deeper into the joint. The starboard side, where a crack was slightly visible two years ago, now shows no sign of a crack at all even though all that I did was apply 2 coats of bottom paint over it.

Maybe I'll have someone at the yard take a look at it...
 
splax

splax

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Nov 12, 2012
694
Hunter 34 Portsmouth
Hello,
Looking at the attached picture, it appeared the area in question is on the aft, port part of the keel about a foot below the hull. My first impression is the "damage" is cosmetic, a case of water intrusion working its way below fairing materials that failed to adhere well enough. If the water was not rust colored, there is no reason to suspect the water has gotten to the keel itself, which would encourage a more proactive treatment barrier coating the affected part of the keel. I recommend removing damaged materials and the area sanded with 80 grit up to 2" around to allow good adhesion of West system epoxy with filler. Apply generously, sand to fair the repair, paint.
 
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W

Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
Terry Cox said:
Doubt you would have any sign of rust regardless, since the keel is solid lead and the keel bolts are SS.
Click to expand
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.. However, in that Catalina thread Stu posted, the lead keel had steel lifting points cast into it that were rusting and causing rusty water to come out. I don't know if Hunter did the same thing or not...

Terry Cox said:
A sage move.
Click to expand
Yep, this morning I went by the yard and talked to their head of service. He was sure it was cosmetic, no signs that it was structural, and said they would grind it back a bit and put some epoxy filler in it before painting the bottom. Sounds good to me. :)
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,111
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
It would be good to have the yard torque the keel bolts before the repair starts.. It looks cosmetic, but in order to get that crack, there had to be movement.. torqueing the keel bolts will mitigate that..
 
W

Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
kloudie1 said:
It would be good to have the yard torque the keel bolts before the repair starts.. It looks cosmetic, but in order to get that crack, there had to be movement.. torqueing the keel bolts will mitigate that..
Click to expand
I'm not sure where the first bolt is from the aft end of the keel but I think the movement may be slight hull flex aft of the last set of bolts. It is very narrow at the aft end, if there are single bolts (vs pairs) further aft, I'm not sure how to get to them. Looking in the bilge all I remember seeing was pairs of nuts, but I may just not remember it correctly.

Maybe someone else with a Passage 42 knows the keel bolt layout? I'm not sure how far forward from the end of the keel the first bolts are...

Does torquing the bolts involve loosening the nuts and then retightening them? Or just applying the specified torque to ensure they are tight?
 
kloudie1

kloudie1

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Nov 6, 2006
10,111
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
don't loosen.. start applying torque with the boat resting on the keel.. If they tighten any, smile.. chances are you won't have to deal with the crack again.. if they don't move, smile..
 
dehler25

dehler25

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Sep 10, 2012
228
Hunter 450 Gulfport, Florida
Where water has been inside the keel stub evidenced by the fact that it leaked s l o w l y out it is likely that the water is not exchanged well and would have a very low oxygen content thus creating the environment for stainless corrosion. Simply resealing and tightening would make it look nice, but if the keel bolts especially the aft one is compromised it is possible to leave the keel in an exotic location. I had the same problem and corrosion had begun although questionably moderate it seemed appropriate to remove the aft keel bolt, excavated around the stub, screwed on a coupling and replaced the bolt to length. Oversized washers installed. That keel is sealed and strong as new.
 
Terry Cox

Terry Cox

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Dec 25, 2000
5,945
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Wanderwind said:
Maybe someone else with a Passage 42 knows the keel bolt layout? I'm not sure how far forward from the end of the keel the first bolts are...
Click to expand
Hi Daniel, the most aft single keel bolt is located a bit behind the aft cabin shower sump. You will see it when you remove the hatch from the sole at the bottom of the companionway step, under the platform the holds the refrigeration equipment.

The most forward keel bolt is located in the forward bilge well forward of the compression post. The rest are between the most aft and most forward keel bolts located in the main (center settee) and intermediate (just in front of the aft shower sump) bilge wells.

I do not remember seeing any kind of keel iron strap that might have been used in lifting or moving. Hope this helps.
 
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Terry Cox

Terry Cox

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Dec 25, 2000
5,945
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Wanderwind said:
He was sure it was cosmetic, no signs that it was structural, and said they would grind it back a bit and put some epoxy filler in it before painting the bottom. Sounds good to me.
Click to expand
Hi Daniel, please let us know whether they discover anything new when they finish grinding and before they apply new epoxy. It seemed to me that the stub would be all FRP and the keel all lead. It appears from your original photos the crack is where they mate.
 
W

Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
Writing back because you guys asked me to. :) Nothing really interesting to report, they ground it back a bit and filled it with thickened epoxy. Service manager is very familiar with Hunter sailboats and was sure it was superficial and nothing to worry about. So, I guess that's that.
 
Terry Cox

Terry Cox

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Dec 25, 2000
5,945
Hunter Passage 42 Shelter Bay, WA
Thanks for the update, Daniel. Sounds as though the part they ground back was the stub FRP and not the keel.
 
W

Wanderwind

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Jul 7, 2014
90
Hunter Passage 42 Jacksonville
Yeah, frankly, I wish I would have gotten a chance to see it before they'd filled and painted it. There were no signs of the crack reappearing when the boat was in the slings.
 
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eianm

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Jul 7, 2010
523
Hunter 42 Sydney
I have had a small crack- about 4>6 inches long at the joint on the rear trailing edge since I bought the boat 10 years ago- each time it is slipped and bottom job done they clean it- fill it and repaint, but it has never advanced or changed in any way- my slip way guy said it is nothing to worry about
 
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