Passage 42, 1997: windlass not working

[Mag97]

My Lewmar windlass stopped working. There is nothing obvious on the outside blocking movement. The activation of switches (up and down) just makes a click sound at the windlass control box. The boat is connected to shorepower, and I resetted the braker/isolator. Any advice?
thanks
Fernando

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Fernando, time to break out your volt meter. We had that happen a couple of times many years ago, taking some trouble shooting steps to isolate the problem. First, the power cable to the windlass on our boat is mounted directly on the lower house bank battery. The switch solenoid for the windlass is mounted inside the engine room just to the right of the door. The main circuit breaker for the windlass is mounted on the engine room power panel.

After you turn on the windlass switch on the main power panel, use your volt meter to verify that you have power on both sides of the windlass circuit breaker and solenoid. If not, something may have caused the breaker to pop. Ours did when an overload occurred. Very hard to reset. I had to place my thumb on the button and press very hard with my palm to get it to reset with a firm loud click.

After that it is a matter of verifying that you have power to the foot switch in the anchor well. If so, verify that you have power to the motor by accessing it by removing the access panel in the V berth. If all that checks out, the motor could be shot. The original Maxwell on our 1991 boat still works like a champ, and I've used it a lot over the years.

Another step to verify whether the motor is shot, directly connect a battery source to the windlass power terminals to see whether the motor spins. If it does, then there is a problem somewhere else in the circuit.

Please let us know what you find as the culprit.

 

[Mag97]

many thanks Terry, I will follow advices. I will start by connecting directly a battery to the motor. I have a hunch that the problem is in the control box based on the clicking that I hear when activate the switch.
I had a solo trip from hell to Catalina Island (30 miles from LA), in which I messed up the Yanmar engine of the boat. I did not realize that the oil filter was leaking until it was too late and now I have to rebuild the engine. I am still at the denial phase and figuring out how to spend more than $10K in something out of my mind. I am trying to relax by fixing a few other things in the boat.
Fernando

 

[Terry Cox]

Ouch! So sorry to hear that news. Do you have the Genset on the upper platform like we have? If so it will have to come out first, a major pain.

 

[RitSim]

My windlass has a reversing relay so the switches don't handle the high current. 1) Check power at the motor terminals when the switches are energized. Using a battery at the motor terminals to verify the motor rotates correctly is a good idea, but be sure to disconnect the cables from the normal power source before applying the battery voltage directly. Plus cable on motor terminal 1 and Minus on terminal 2 gets one rotation direction. Plus cable on motor terminal 2 and Minus on terminal 1 reverses the rotation.

I searched Google for a 100 amp /12 volt reversing relay. Just took a guess as to the correct size

 

[Ron20324]

I am trying to relax by fixing a few other things in the boat.

Gin & Tonic, Rum & Coke, Bourbon & Whisky. Did I miss any?

 

[Kings Gambit]

My Sprint 1000 once showed the same behavior (click) that persisted intermittently for several years. I eventually recognized the problem as degraded boat wiring feeding the windlass its power. I cut away the boat wiring near the windlass and back about two ft into the boat, replaced it with new, and reconnected via a terminal block to the windlass with that new wiring attached to the wiring from the battery. I did this 8 to 10 yr ago and that problem has not reoccurred. I concluded that moisture had evidently been getting into the boat wring near the windlass (i.e., at the splice/connection) and was working its way back toward the battery, etc

 

[Mag97]

Ouch! So sorry to hear that news. Do you have the Genset on the upper platform like we have? If so it will have to come out first, a major pain.

yes, I have a generator. The mechanic will try to get the Yanmar without removing the generator but may need to deassemble the rightmost part of the wooden house. Not sure what is the lesser pain.

 

[Mag97]

Gin & Tonic, Rum & Coke, Bourbon & Whisky. Did I miss any?

vodka, tequila, pisco

 

[Ken13559]

Some years back I too have clicking sounding of but windlass not working. The motor was shot. Replaced with 3rd party motor.

Ken Y

 

[Mag97]

I did the battery test by connecting the battery terminals directly to the motor, and reversed polairity back and forth: it didn't do anything to the motor (no noise, nothing). I assume that the motor is broken. I have the idea that the lack of use may have helped to overload, and something got stuck inside. Is it fixable if try to open and grease inside? If not, can anyone recommend a third party motor. many thanks. Fernando

 

[Mag97]

here is a picture of the assembly

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Most unusual. Most later model Hunters allow the motor and relay to be mounted inside the forward berth where it's dry which IMO makes them virtually bomb proof. We do a LOT of anchoring and have not seen any problems in 10 years. Many other motors are mounted right in the anchor locker which surprises me that they continue to operate for even a few weeks with 100% humidity and high temperatures in lower latitudes.

Below is an as built drawing of my installation. Try taking a look at the voltage at D1 and D2 to ensure power is getting through to these terminals when the relay is closed. This is the easiest way of checking the wiring to the motor. ALSO CHECK FOR ANY VOLTAGE AT A2. If there is, this shows that the ground is broken.

This may take a bit to follow where the power is going when you look at the wiring but it's also the easiest way to check without running heavy spare cables between your battery and motor. All contacts are exposed and ready for testing.

Maybe another question to ask here is: what size is your Lewmar windlass ? Maybe it's too small and you've burned it out prematurely. Yes, there is an over-temperature switch in the motor but this may not even be wired into the circuit (see motor thermal cut out in the drawing). Remember this is not a factory install, but may have been installed by God knows who ?

I know I'm repeating myself here, but I find it extremely unlikely that the motor has failed when I look at the numerous hours my Lewmar V1windlass has been in operation over the years.

 

[Mag97]

Ralph, many thanks for the information. I connected the battery directly on the motor to discard any possible influence of the complicated wiring on the function of the motor. The fact that the motor does not run with direct connection, I do not see how a failure in the wiring can affect. Hopefully I am wrong and do not have to replace the motor. Many things fail just for not using them and the motor has 20 years. I am trying to figure a practical way to open the motor and see what happens. By the way, the aft motor also stopped working a couple of months ago and just needed some lubrication.... I just need to spend more time sailing and using the boat.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

The fact that the motor does not run with direct connection, I do not see how a failure in the wiring can affect

First question would be: did you prove out the ground wire to the motor ? The ground is every bit as important as the power supply.

The second question is: what model is this Lewmar windlass ? V1, V2 .......... V6 ?

Many things fail just for not using them

Maybe if they're out in the elements but this motor is in a dry place. The jury's still out on this one.

I am trying to figure a practical way to open the motor and see what happens.

If it's anything like the Lewmar V1, the casing looks like a sealed tin can. I think you would have some serious damage if you opened it.

By the way, the aft motor also stopped working a couple of months ago and just needed some lubrication

This aft motor is connected to what ?

 

[Mag97]

just learned that the windlass of my Hunter was made by some type of partnership between two european companies that disappeared. Simpson Lawrence, and Leroy Somer, which products were poor quality and may explain the failure. I am trying to get a third party motor replacement. Any advice?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

just learned that the windlass of my Hunter was made by some type of partnership between two european companies that disappeared.

Well, that shoots down all my Lewmar theories. Back to the drawing board.

You will need a brand name and model of the windlass before looking for a 3rd party motor. Perhaps @Maine Sail can offer some suggestions for a replacement motor.

 

[Mag97]

Thanks Ralph, my motor does not have a ground connection (please check picture). Only two red cables connect to it, and I was simply assuming that the control box makes the motor spin by reversing polarity. In my battery test, I connected the battery directly to the two motor terminals, and nothing happened. That is how I concluded the motor was shot...
SL Spares in UK says to have a Sprint Atlantic motor (AP700-12v) compatible with my Leroy Somer MBT82M 12 VDC 4704-5949; only difference is the electric connection (not sure what is means). So far, this may be the way to go in order to keep the rest of the system. Any advice?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Thanks Ralph, my motor does not have a ground connection (please check picture)

DAMN. Thought you might be on to something new and interesting . No, the ground wire is in the upper LH corner. As previously mentioned, the ground is every bit as important as the red power supply leads.

Time to come to a full stop here and take careful inventory of what you do have. Ensure the three (3) lugs are tight and in the correct location. Ensure the windlass control power and motor power are both on. Proceed with this test.

1. Press either the UP or DOWN button of the windlass and hold for the duration of this test.
2. Dial your multi meter to DC voltage. AC will not work.
3. Run the leads of your multi meter from the forward RED wire terminal (in the photo) to the BLACK wire terminal (ground).
4. State the voltage.
5. Run the leads of your multi meter from the rear RED wire (in the photo) to the BLACK wire terminal (ground).
6. State the voltage.

Once we have these values you can proceed.

 

[Mag97]

many thanks. I am attaching another pict from a different angle showing the two (2) red wires, no black wire or terminal that I can identify??? The motor has only 2 terminals that I can see?? The blue and black wires on the background come from the up/down switches