Parts I can't buy

Jan 1, 2006
7,488
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Okay, this has totally degraded now...... :badbad:

End of thread I'd suggest!
No, please not. I think we have a lot to learn about 3D printing. What you say makes a lot sense. Please don't go away. Sailboats have a lot of small market parts or parts made my manufacturers long ago gone out of business. We have a tendency to drift to the humorous or frivolous side of things but I think you can open eyes to a new way of doing things. Maybe you could post some simple primers about 3D printing. Let us see the possibilities.
 
Sep 12, 2018
20
Beneteau Oceanis 445 Salt Spring Island on my dock
Please don't go away. Let us see the possibilities.
Haha, don't worry, I'm not going anywhere! I love opening peoples eyes to the wonders of this new technology. One thing though, a lot of engineers who specialize in 3D printing feel a real mistake was made when it was called 'printing'. It over simplifies it and gives people the impression it's about as difficult as a paper printer. Devices like 'CNC routers', 'particle accelerators', 'glass kilns', 'blast furnaces', 'metal lathes' all sound rather imposing - and rightly so because they take years of experience to fully master. 3D printing is just as difficult as any of those. A lot of the 3D printer companies jumped in years ago, with the dream of consumer 3D printing, and recently have realized that just isn't practical and have since refocused to making industrial printers for engineers now. What the 3D printer HAS done though is totally revolutionize the design to manufacture cycle in engineering prototyping. Years have turned into months.

It's like somebody buying a pottery kiln and thinking they're going to instantly become a world class potter. The firing schedules for pottery (and glass work, which my wife does) are incredibly complex as are all the other aspects of the sciences. Thickness, temperature, expansion, annealing, all complex topics. Why do we think that 3D printing would be any different? A technology thousands of years newer than pottery or glass.

Another great use for 3D printing is in this whole world of obsolete parts. But, making parts for 3D printing is quite different than the injection moulded parts that are being replaced. So, that all has to be taken into account. For example, you don't just make a glass bowl exactly the same way you'd make a ceramic bowl. Different materials, different properties, different techniques.

But, rather than that being a problem, it's actually a huge benefit. When we re-design an old part that was originally injection moulded, we substantially change it - removing the elements that were only causing weakness. There's usually a reason why these old parts were breaking, and 9/10 times it's because of a silly injection moulding constraint that can be removed with the 3D print design. So, understanding the function of the part and the limitations that were there because of injection moulding are all a big part of re-designing these new, stronger, better 3D printed parts.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,680
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I'm waiting for it to morph into a 3-D anchor-printing thread.

All kidding aside, I'm sure we're going to see more and 3-D parts. I was once given a 3-D printed prototype to test; it held up for many years--it is still in use--but the production version they sent broke within weeks. Wrong plastic.

No it won't be for everything, but I suspect it will be for a LOT more things than you think as the tech matures. Probably a lot of low-volume OEM stuff.
 
Sep 12, 2018
20
Beneteau Oceanis 445 Salt Spring Island on my dock
Exactly, the last injection mould I designed cost $17,000. Hardly cost effective for something you're only going to make a few of - like our remote controls.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,488
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
My work involves a lot of casted parts which is very a difficult process to achieve accurate results. In fact the results are just a compromise by definition. I think it's probably analogous to injection molding - which I don't know anything about. Milled parts are far better. They fit far more accurately. Now there is this 3D printing technology, which probably will step up the quality of fit of the parts we make. I don't really understand how 3D printing works. I assume that materials are laid down in a grid pattern such as milling occurs. What I don't understand is how the materials transform from the printer to a product with a specific shape and material characteristic. If there are layers, how do they bind to one another? Some materials don't seem conducive to that. That's question # 1.
 
Sep 12, 2018
20
Beneteau Oceanis 445 Salt Spring Island on my dock
Many different types of 3D printing. But, they all progress layer by layer. FDM, Fused Deposition Modeling, uses a plastic extruder with a spooled plastic filament feed, like a glue gun, to lay down layer upon layer of plastic 'noodles' usually about .4mm diameter one upon the other. One layer is laid down, then another is laid down on top, melting into the previous layer slightly. On and on till the top. The insides are usually a honeycomb of plastic (defined by the printing program), however, for strength, most of our parts are solid inside.

Next method we use - SLS - Selective Laser Sintering. Same idea, but a very thin layer of powdered plastic is laid down. Then a laser traces out the shape of the layer and melts the plastic only where you want solidity. Another thin layer of powder, on and on. At the end, your parts are inside a 'snowdrift' of plastic powder which must be sifted to get them. The parts are then blown with an air gun to clean them. We use this method to make the tiny nylon gears inside planetary gear drives for the Autohelm 4000 and ST4000 wheel pilots. Very accurate and detailed parts are possible. Parts are solid - no honeycombing inside as it would just be filled with powder if you did that. If you try to print a hollow object, you have to make sure you have a vent hole to get the powder out.

Next method we use - DMP - Direct Metal Printing. Same as SLS only uses any type of powdered metal - gold, titanium, aluminum, you name it. In our case - stainless steel 316L. Laser melts it just the same. Part tolerances are in the 5 thou range - so super accurate. We use this method to make the eccentric cam assembly for the Autohelm 4000 - all in one piece! The original part is milled as a cam and a shaft and pinned together - and the pins always shear. But, with 3D printing, we just make it as one solid object - no pins - no breakage.

Many other methods, most quite similar. Can print in almost any material you can imagine - clay, food, glass, you name it.
 
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Oct 26, 2010
2,114
Hunter 40.5 Beaufort, SC
I was in Huntsville at a private (off duty) NASA facility tour with my niece (who IS a rocket scientist at NASA) an she showed me a huge 3D printing machine they were using to make parts. I figure if its good enough for NASA its good enough for me. Thanks for the primer on 3D printing. It very enlightening. I was wondering how they got "metal" parts from a "printer" but your explanation makes since. You are right, they probably shouldn't have coined the name "3D printer" as the understates the complexity of the process.

Once I scrape together a few coins I will probably buy one of your autopilot remotes! I'd like to be able to make fine course adjustments from other places on my boat than just at the helm, like when I'm raising the main and trying to keep it into the wind and the battens from haning up on my lazyjacks
 
May 20, 2016
3,015
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Metal 3-d usually involves a laser that fuses select areas on the top of a bed of metal particles, the bed is dropped and more metal is spread over the top. When the part is pulled it is often sent to be sintered - fired in a oven to shrink and harden the piece.

Several types of plastic are done in the same way with UV or lasers. It helps when the part can’t support itself when done in the more traditional method.

Les
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,680
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
There are also processes like forging that will be difficult (impossible? Perhaps not, by a different approach) to duplicate. I don't think I'd want a printed climbing carabiner!

But most things can simply be beefed up a little bit.
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,768
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
Depends on the printer and material, here is a really strong printed chain link. With the right materials you could probably print a very strong carabiner.

You can get carbon fiber reinforced PEEK filament that is incredibly strong. Of course, it also costs about 10x ABS filament, requires 400°C extruder temperature, and will wear out nozzles really quick so not great for every day printing.
 
Jan 25, 2011
2,436
S2 11.0A Anacortes, WA
Can you do an Edson red throttle lever? It would have a set screw through it. No longer available through Edson
 

dLj

.
Mar 23, 2017
4,296
Belliure 41 Back in the Chesapeake
All technologies have advantages and disadvantages. 3D printed parts are no different. Very true statement that there is a lot of engineering that goes into a 3D printed part, just as there is in all technologies.

That being said, a huge advantage of 3D printed parts is the ability to produce prototypes very quickly. So you can make test parts, test them and then alter your design reflecting the results of the testing. This gives a significant advantage in product development over most other technologies. Of course this is for production parts.

3D printing is also very competitive in one-off parts where you know the design requirements but will only need one, or very few parts made. That has been the main focus in this thread.

dj
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,897
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
I fire up my 3d cad then print it out on my 3d printer. Sometimes I hire my 17 yo to do it.