Parts for old Wilcox Crittenden Head

[SouthernCross21572]

I have a '79 Hunter 37 cutter with what appears to be an original head. It is a Wilcox Crittenden head, but I have not been able to match it up to anything they currently sell - which is why I think its an original.

I need to do some maintenance work on it - seals etc - the bowl "backs up" after you pump out and I think the innards are on their last legs.

Anyone have the same head and if so, where do I order repair kits from - cant seem to find any.

Thanks in advance

Brian Ross
Southern Cross
Port Clinton

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Is it worth repairing?

If your toilet is a W-C Skipper, it is...the Skipper is a bronze "throne" designed and built to last at least 100 years. Which is why Thetford-Norcold discontinued it even before they killed the entire W-C line. Rebuild kits are about the only parts still available. You'll pay about $!00 for one...which, considering that the toilet sold for over $800 in the '80s is actually a bargain! You can get one directly from W-C.

But if your toilet is a Headmate, it's time for a new toilet. The Headmate is a cheapie comact with an average lifespan of only about 10 years...after 30 years, yours has to be so worn that new seals etc won't do it much good. It was also discontinued at the end of last year. No other parts except rebuild kits are still available.

So your next question should be "which toilet to replace it?" You can still find W-C Headmates at retailers...but nothing in the same class as your Headmate that's made today will last anywhere near as long as anything made 30 years ago. To get a toilet that's likely to give you reliable trouble-free service for more than a couple of years will cost you about $100 more than any of the compact toilets.

You said that among other problems, the bowl backs up. That may mean a blocked holding tank vent. Be sure it's clear before you use the toilet or try to pump the tank out.

 

[SouthernCross21572]

Thanks for the info. Blocked tank vent is not the issue - thats one of the things I checked Looks to me like the seals are allowing fluids to back up into the bowl. Not an expert on heads, but the picture below is what my head looks like. Looks like I may need to replace it with something newer...

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

That's a Skipper!

Defiinitely worth saving! If it needs more than what's in the kit, it's even worth having a bronze part machined somewhere. Here it is on the Thetford site: http://www.thetford.com/HOME/Products/PermanentToilets/TecmaSkipper/tabid/104/Default.aspx (doesn't show the pump handle in the photo). Click on "parts"...the box on the right side of the page, not the one at the top of the page. That'll take you to the exploded drawing and parts list (everything but the rebuild kit...hmmmm)...and a phone number to order 'em. Buy two of everything 'cuz Thetford tells me they don't plan to continue supporting any of the W-C toilets longer than a few years.

 

[coleman]

I have a 1980 H37c, this is a -photo of a similar head- I found online. Looks very much like the one I have, foot pedal and sort of flimsy double hinged pump handle.

It does not look like the much more elaborate Skipper, is this the old style W-C Head Mate you're referring to?

 

[Paul F]

You might just replace the joker valve and take care of the return problem. Joker valves are fairly universal and easy to replace. Worth a try unless you have more problems, in that case a new unit is about the same price as a rebuild kit.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Paul...Coleman...

Coleman, your link doesn't work. However, there's nothing flimsy about the Skipper, nor is the handle hinged. So I doubt if what you found online is the same toilet. Nor is it likely to be an old Headmate either...it's always had the same type of piston/cylinder "bicycle pump" it has today...that ALL compact manual toilets have. Try again to get a photo up...I'll try to ID it for you.

Paul, did you read my first reply? If you had, you know how far off base you are in saying that a new "unit" for the Skipper is about the same price as a rebuild kit as well as the rest of your advice.

 

[coleman]

Funny, link worked for me a few hours ago... Here it is again, posted a different way...

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_TMQ9PKK5_AhRvc18BIfAA

I am not sure what it is, it looks more like what is in Southern Cross's linked image so that's why I posted. The the offset pump, the low base bowl, the raw water inlet control pedal, etc. Doesn't look like the Skipper at all and it may be what is typically on a '79 H37C as well as my own '80 model. I am almost certain the one in this photo is what I have, at least...

 

[coleman]

I don't know for sure, but this is more what like I have in my '80. Would this seem period correct for a '79-'80 H37C?

http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/PermanentToilets/ImperialParts/tabid/524/Default.aspx

Edit: I found a photo of my own boat's head. It's not a skipper. Is it an Imperial? It is bronze.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Unless you're absolutely certain that it's a W-C toilet...

I'm thinking that what you may have under all that corrosion is... Groco--either a Model EB (discontinued about 10 years ago) or a Model K, still in production. Both are in the same class and price range as the W-C Skipper. I don't THINK it's an Imperial.

Check out these photos and see what you think. The EB is shown with the electric motor added, so you'll have to guess what's behind it...neither show the pump handle ( which I don't think is original on yours). All the specs for the Model K are on the Groco website here: http://www.groco.net/07-sanitation/07-KH-heads.htm. I'd have to scan and email the ones for the EB.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I think I've finally got it,Coleman... it's a W-C "Junior"

A W-C "Junior #51"...discontinued so long ago Thetford doesn't even have any mention of it on their website any more. I found it in a catalog from the late 80s or early '90s. I had to scan a VERY small photo...see what you think: If I'm right, I have an exploded drawing and parts list for it that I can scan and send to you.

 

[coleman]

Yeah, I thought so. The Junior is just the small-bowl version of the Imperial, as far as I can tell from the parts lists.

Thetford still has a relatively complete parts listing for the Junior.
Thetford also still has a relatively complete parts listing for the Imperial, which I posted earlier.

So that should be the information and diagram necessary for a rebuild. Hope I can find what I need.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Something you may have overlooked...

More than half the parts on the exploded drawings aren't on the parts lists...which means those parts are no longer available. And I'm not sure all the parts on the lists are even still available. In April their national sales mgr told me that the discontinued toilets still have some parts available, but more in kits than individually. So hopefully you won't need something you can get any more.

But judging by the layers of green vertigris and corrosion on it, it's gonna be a while before you know what parts it'll need! One thing about a "project boat"...it'll be years before you'll ever be able to say you don't have anything to do! I know 'cuz I've been there!

 

[SouthernCross21572]

Absolutely certain its a Wilcox Crittenden. The head is exactly the one in the pictures from Coleman. So - based on that is it a Junior or an Imperial? Both exploded parts diagrams look pretty much the same.

I know heads are a smelly discussion point, but thanks to all for their help in getting this identified. The head works pretty well for the most part and the wife likes the fact its not plastic. A little TLC is all it needs. And yes, we will buy 2 of everything...

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Something I'd almost forgotten...

There were TWO "Juniors"....the original, and then the people who owned W-C between North & Judd and Thetford introduced a "Skipper Junior." They aren't the same toilet...the original "Junior" was a smaller version of the Imperial, not the Skipper..

So there's only one thing for y'all to do: call Jocko--a crazy Austrailian named Jock Allpress who's been with W-C for a zillion years and knows more about their toilets than I'll ever learn. He'll be able to sort out which toilet you have and what parts are still available in a heartbeat.

His direct phone is 401 225 4529...email is jallpress@thetford.com.

 

[jhender]

Wilcox-Crittenden

In 1996, I obtained a repair kit from Chester at High Seas Service Center, 65 Flanders Rd., East Hampton, CT 06424; Phone 860-267-4359. I was told at the time that he repaired them for the company and ran this parts business on the side. Don't know if they're still there.

 

[coleman]

Wilcox Crittenden Imperial/Junior kit 1599 -- it's for sale most everywhere, it seems... Looks like this should do the trick, $80-$110. Even West Marine has it listed as "In-Stock"