I like my boat and my independence, but I think I might like to move up a notch or two (especially after that last discusssion about size). I have some friends that brought up the possibility of buying a boat together to help share the cost. Sounds good on paper but other issues come into play. Such as time, scheduling, labor, repairs, maintenance and decision making and probably things I wouldn't think of until too late. I also have questions about the number of partners. Is more better in case one defaults and can't make payment? I'd like to know what issues are a concern and how you have handled it. Thanks for your time and interest.
- Status
I know many people who have tried...
...and none succeeded for any great length of time. Their biggest reasons for splitting up was repairs and expenditure of funds. Why does it have to be replaced right now? Why can't it wait? Why do we have to spend the money now? I don't think it needs to be done right now so I am not signing off on it, etc... Good luck in your decision. But I've seen far too many friendships dissolve over this situation. Cheers, Bob
...and none succeeded for any great length of time. Their biggest reasons for splitting up was repairs and expenditure of funds. Why does it have to be replaced right now? Why can't it wait? Why do we have to spend the money now? I don't think it needs to be done right now so I am not signing off on it, etc... Good luck in your decision. But I've seen far too many friendships dissolve over this situation. Cheers, Bob
Ditto on the EXTREME difficulties
Several of my friends have tried it. None of these efforts worked for one reason or other. Sad part is that people that were very good friends are now on non-speaking terms with one another. My advice would be buy no bigger than you can afford if you want to enjoy it. But do it alone. Good luck
Several of my friends have tried it. None of these efforts worked for one reason or other. Sad part is that people that were very good friends are now on non-speaking terms with one another. My advice would be buy no bigger than you can afford if you want to enjoy it. But do it alone. Good luck
A partnership of equals. NOT.
Having said that I probably would not have the boat I do without the partnerships we started out with. The first thing to keep in mind is that your partnership will most likely never be a partnership of equals. This is not necessarily a bad thing as your differences can make you stronger as a whole. Someone might be handy with tools, woodworking and have no kids and plenty of time to work on the boat while another might have many young kids ad very little free time. Someone might like to race while another might prefer just cruising or day sailing. Beware of people who like to bring their kids fishing unless fishing is your thing. We started out with 3 partners. We are about to boot the guy who has all the kids and no time and has put little or no $'s or time into the boat for a couple of years. Boats cost money every year just owning them. If one of you is accountant minded (none of us seems to be) you can set up a yearly budget that everyone shares in. The labor that various partners put in should also be accounted for unless everyone has some kind of specialty work that levels the playing field. I think that 3 is a good number but I have heard of 4 or more. Another item that was suggested to me was to set up a schedule over the winter such that all the weeks of the season are assigned out equally to each partner and distribute the 3 day weekends around equally. This is not a hard and fast schedule but a guidline. If you want to use the boat in mid week and it is assigned to your partner you call him and find out if he is using the boat or not. If not, you go for a sail and maybe he/she goes with you as well. If they are out on a weeks cruise somewhere you are out of luck until they get back. I would also advise you to at least go on a daysail with each of your prospective partners and give each a turn at the helm to see what they actually know. The partner we are going to boot had owned 2 other wooden sailboats prior to our partnership. We later learned that he could not tell where the wind was coming from nor did he know how to sail. He liked working on wooden boats and sleeping on them (presumably to get away from the wife and kids) but both of his boats had sunk at one time or another. Some people may just be bad candidates for a partnership as they are too rigid and need to have things their way all the time. A laid back attitude will be appreciated much more than a hyper Mr. Know-it-all. It takes some time to see how the routines work out (as in who does what) but in the end I think it can be highly rewarding and you might actually grow more attached to your partners if you spend time with them afloat.
Having said that I probably would not have the boat I do without the partnerships we started out with. The first thing to keep in mind is that your partnership will most likely never be a partnership of equals. This is not necessarily a bad thing as your differences can make you stronger as a whole. Someone might be handy with tools, woodworking and have no kids and plenty of time to work on the boat while another might have many young kids ad very little free time. Someone might like to race while another might prefer just cruising or day sailing. Beware of people who like to bring their kids fishing unless fishing is your thing. We started out with 3 partners. We are about to boot the guy who has all the kids and no time and has put little or no $'s or time into the boat for a couple of years. Boats cost money every year just owning them. If one of you is accountant minded (none of us seems to be) you can set up a yearly budget that everyone shares in. The labor that various partners put in should also be accounted for unless everyone has some kind of specialty work that levels the playing field. I think that 3 is a good number but I have heard of 4 or more. Another item that was suggested to me was to set up a schedule over the winter such that all the weeks of the season are assigned out equally to each partner and distribute the 3 day weekends around equally. This is not a hard and fast schedule but a guidline. If you want to use the boat in mid week and it is assigned to your partner you call him and find out if he is using the boat or not. If not, you go for a sail and maybe he/she goes with you as well. If they are out on a weeks cruise somewhere you are out of luck until they get back. I would also advise you to at least go on a daysail with each of your prospective partners and give each a turn at the helm to see what they actually know. The partner we are going to boot had owned 2 other wooden sailboats prior to our partnership. We later learned that he could not tell where the wind was coming from nor did he know how to sail. He liked working on wooden boats and sleeping on them (presumably to get away from the wife and kids) but both of his boats had sunk at one time or another. Some people may just be bad candidates for a partnership as they are too rigid and need to have things their way all the time. A laid back attitude will be appreciated much more than a hyper Mr. Know-it-all. It takes some time to see how the routines work out (as in who does what) but in the end I think it can be highly rewarding and you might actually grow more attached to your partners if you spend time with them afloat.
1985 ofday anniversary 26 ftr
I too have seen many a partnership and a friendship or 2 fall apart as a result of owning and sharing a boat together. My older brother who got me started on sailing owned a Pearson Ensign with 2 others and that didn't take but a year or 2 to fall apart. I too own my boat with a partner and we have been getting along fine so far,although she did not use the boat once last year. When it came time to haul it for the winter I picked up the costs,unstepping the mast ,hauling ,removal of mooring and any winterizing we decided to pay for. I call these monies USER FEES and since she did not use the boat at all I decided to absorb the costs this year.We do have an unusual arrangement but for today it works. If and when she wants out we will either sell or I will buy her out. We do keep the boat at her house so that fee is nice not to have to pay, I also hear that in a yard you will almost always find someone has pilfered your boat of some minor stuff. So I like keeping it at her place. One reason I believe we made it so far is we do not keep track of our time spent working or playing on the boat. I definitely use it more than her and do more of the manual work than she does but it really doesn't matter to me.This winter I am talking about purchasing a new mainsail and we will split that cost or just add it to the pile of receipts. SO for today I like my deal
I too have seen many a partnership and a friendship or 2 fall apart as a result of owning and sharing a boat together. My older brother who got me started on sailing owned a Pearson Ensign with 2 others and that didn't take but a year or 2 to fall apart. I too own my boat with a partner and we have been getting along fine so far,although she did not use the boat once last year. When it came time to haul it for the winter I picked up the costs,unstepping the mast ,hauling ,removal of mooring and any winterizing we decided to pay for. I call these monies USER FEES and since she did not use the boat at all I decided to absorb the costs this year.We do have an unusual arrangement but for today it works. If and when she wants out we will either sell or I will buy her out. We do keep the boat at her house so that fee is nice not to have to pay, I also hear that in a yard you will almost always find someone has pilfered your boat of some minor stuff. So I like keeping it at her place. One reason I believe we made it so far is we do not keep track of our time spent working or playing on the boat. I definitely use it more than her and do more of the manual work than she does but it really doesn't matter to me.This winter I am talking about purchasing a new mainsail and we will split that cost or just add it to the pile of receipts. SO for today I like my deal
Thanks for the encouragement
Jeff, thanks for the encouragement. Sound like you have it worked out prety much like my brother-in-law and I do on out hobie 18. Alot of the arrangement has been unspoken but he still whines once in a while. He pays the storage fees and I have taken care of repairs and maintenance. I had to make a ledger sheet with all of the monies spent on both out parts and it came out in his favor a couple of hundred dollars. He stopped whining for a while. I do all of the labor but I don't count that as I enjoy working on the boat. We have a great time together when we're on the boat and laugh our asses off the whole time. This venture would be a little different though in that the others know little about sailing. They really enjoy when we go out however and work hard to get the boat ready without complaining. We are all psychologist and work together which could be problamatic. We are all pretty much laid back. I just wonder if a written contract is a good idea.
Jeff, thanks for the encouragement. Sound like you have it worked out prety much like my brother-in-law and I do on out hobie 18. Alot of the arrangement has been unspoken but he still whines once in a while. He pays the storage fees and I have taken care of repairs and maintenance. I had to make a ledger sheet with all of the monies spent on both out parts and it came out in his favor a couple of hundred dollars. He stopped whining for a while. I do all of the labor but I don't count that as I enjoy working on the boat. We have a great time together when we're on the boat and laugh our asses off the whole time. This venture would be a little different though in that the others know little about sailing. They really enjoy when we go out however and work hard to get the boat ready without complaining. We are all psychologist and work together which could be problamatic. We are all pretty much laid back. I just wonder if a written contract is a good idea.
It can work, but...
There are considerations you might not think of going in, that later loom large. For example, it's easier for each partner to put in X dollars at the start of the year for a maintenance fund than to ask for assessments during the year. That way any surplus can be divided up or plowed back in next year. A biggie: What are the conditions for leaving the partnership? What if one guy wants out after 6 months or a year (he'll always have a good reason - bought another boat, kid in college, car was totalled, job change) - how will you handle it? It is best to work this out ahead of time, because when it comes up, you don't want to create bad feelings, but if he goes, everyone's expenses go up. If it's a two-partner deal, then the remaining owner's costs just doubled. Ask me how I know. Many people don't take good care of things they share, because they see it as more of a leasing situation. You need a very clear understanding of what the maintenance standards and schedule will be ahead of time, so that you will not be arguing over it later. Lots to think about...
There are considerations you might not think of going in, that later loom large. For example, it's easier for each partner to put in X dollars at the start of the year for a maintenance fund than to ask for assessments during the year. That way any surplus can be divided up or plowed back in next year. A biggie: What are the conditions for leaving the partnership? What if one guy wants out after 6 months or a year (he'll always have a good reason - bought another boat, kid in college, car was totalled, job change) - how will you handle it? It is best to work this out ahead of time, because when it comes up, you don't want to create bad feelings, but if he goes, everyone's expenses go up. If it's a two-partner deal, then the remaining owner's costs just doubled. Ask me how I know. Many people don't take good care of things they share, because they see it as more of a leasing situation. You need a very clear understanding of what the maintenance standards and schedule will be ahead of time, so that you will not be arguing over it later. Lots to think about...
I dont like partners....that said..
1. Make sure that they are financially stable and have more $ than you 2. Make sure that their relationship with their spouse (or whatever) is stable, long lasting, and you don't forsee a break up 3. Make sure the kids in that relationship are going to get in the way 4. Set a formula for shared costs...will it be based on usage or % 5. Set a formula for getting out of the deal...how will you determine the price of the sell out? If your partners have no $ to buy you out do you sell the boat? 6. What is going to happen when people are late on their payments...will you set up an account with 4-6 months of overhead so if it starts to get low there is plenty of time to sell the boat, kick the partner out....or whatever before you start having to make payments by yourself. 7. Make sure they are responsible people and have your same goals and vallues as it pertains to the boat 8. If your partner is a friend....are you willing to risk that friendship over $$$. 9. Make sure your partners wife is good looking...sorry thats another thread. 10.If your not sure...don't do it....think with your brain not emotions....be content with your little boat. 11.I rather have 2 well off responsible partners than 10 irresponsible partners who are living paycheck to paycheck. abe
1. Make sure that they are financially stable and have more $ than you 2. Make sure that their relationship with their spouse (or whatever) is stable, long lasting, and you don't forsee a break up 3. Make sure the kids in that relationship are going to get in the way 4. Set a formula for shared costs...will it be based on usage or % 5. Set a formula for getting out of the deal...how will you determine the price of the sell out? If your partners have no $ to buy you out do you sell the boat? 6. What is going to happen when people are late on their payments...will you set up an account with 4-6 months of overhead so if it starts to get low there is plenty of time to sell the boat, kick the partner out....or whatever before you start having to make payments by yourself. 7. Make sure they are responsible people and have your same goals and vallues as it pertains to the boat 8. If your partner is a friend....are you willing to risk that friendship over $$$. 9. Make sure your partners wife is good looking...sorry thats another thread. 10.If your not sure...don't do it....think with your brain not emotions....be content with your little boat. 11.I rather have 2 well off responsible partners than 10 irresponsible partners who are living paycheck to paycheck. abe
3-legged stool
Nothing is "equal", which 3 'friends' discovered mid-way through year #1. 66% were satisfied with beer can racing on Wednesday (although the boat was set up for the big leagues) and lots of beer cans on the weekend...if we could even agree on who was scheduled. Fortunately, an end to the agony occurred towards the end of year #2 when we blew out the race #1 head-sail and one Admiral (who throws nickles around as if they were man-hole covers; cheap doesn't do her justice) said "enough, we aren't paying dime one!" So, our friendship destroying & un-equal 3-legged stool toppled and we're still slogging our way through the stool and hard feeling left behind. But, hey, maybe you'll be the fortunate one. Good luck!
Nothing is "equal", which 3 'friends' discovered mid-way through year #1. 66% were satisfied with beer can racing on Wednesday (although the boat was set up for the big leagues) and lots of beer cans on the weekend...if we could even agree on who was scheduled. Fortunately, an end to the agony occurred towards the end of year #2 when we blew out the race #1 head-sail and one Admiral (who throws nickles around as if they were man-hole covers; cheap doesn't do her justice) said "enough, we aren't paying dime one!" So, our friendship destroying & un-equal 3-legged stool toppled and we're still slogging our way through the stool and hard feeling left behind. But, hey, maybe you'll be the fortunate one. Good luck!
Two happiest days...
The old adage about the two happiest days of a boat owners life could apply-the 2 happiest days of a partnership are the day it's formed and the day its dissolved. You married? If you are, think of your wife as your partner-you're already in the berth with her! If you're not, good luck on the partnership thing! You might look into "fractional sailing". Probably a better deal. Then you will know either sailng is great and get your very own boat or get out on the next train out of town.
The old adage about the two happiest days of a boat owners life could apply-the 2 happiest days of a partnership are the day it's formed and the day its dissolved. You married? If you are, think of your wife as your partner-you're already in the berth with her! If you're not, good luck on the partnership thing! You might look into "fractional sailing". Probably a better deal. Then you will know either sailng is great and get your very own boat or get out on the next train out of town.
I should add that in our partnership
the initial investment was quite low at $4K, split among 3 people, so buying out an unwanted partner or a partner who wants to get out is not a big deal. As you all know, keeping a boat requires a yearly expenditure that can vary quite a lot depending on what club membership dues, slip or mooring fees are. So after a year (I figure we spend at least $1K/year on recurring costs like membership(s) plus whatever stuff we buy for maintenance (hull paint is around $100/gallon) purposes so the nut adds up quickly. So two after now influx of cash from partner #3 he is effectively way behind to the tune of his initial investment. We will see how that spoonful of sugar goes down though. If you are talking about buying a bigger and more expensive boat and having partners I would be very careful about how you set up the partnership and who you partner with as the initial investment could be substantial (> $10K - real money). There has been a lot of talk of friendships being ruined from getting into partnerships and the complications that can arise when things fall apart. You can get a lawyer to draw up a standard partnership agreement (or make up your own). I would not advise you to go into a partnership with a lawyer though (unless you happen to be a lawyer as well, then you should partner up with someone in the mob). When we were moored off Kings Point our first season the friendly older launch operator asked about our setup. When we told him that there were 3 of us who were owners he said something to the effect that he had been in a partnership with 2 other friends for over 15 years and that it had worked out well. That was reassuring. We have owned our boat together collectively for 4 years now and although there is often talk of getting a bigger boat I have no desire to deal with more boat and more fees. The costs go up exponentially with the size of the boat and the bigger the boat the more time it spends tied up. Ever notice that? Some days over the summer when we are out on our little 27 footer there are no other boats out at all. I feel sorry for the boats. I think about their owners slogging away at their jobs with wives and kids at home unable to sneak away and get to their boats. I happen to be un-employed at the moment and have no kids so my lifestyle is quite different from your average working Joe/Josephine with a mortgage to pay, college tuitions to think about and a rapacious need for a monthly cash flow. Things will change for me too eventually. I believe it was J.P. Morgan who, when asked how much his huge motor yacht cost him said: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
the initial investment was quite low at $4K, split among 3 people, so buying out an unwanted partner or a partner who wants to get out is not a big deal. As you all know, keeping a boat requires a yearly expenditure that can vary quite a lot depending on what club membership dues, slip or mooring fees are. So after a year (I figure we spend at least $1K/year on recurring costs like membership(s) plus whatever stuff we buy for maintenance (hull paint is around $100/gallon) purposes so the nut adds up quickly. So two after now influx of cash from partner #3 he is effectively way behind to the tune of his initial investment. We will see how that spoonful of sugar goes down though. If you are talking about buying a bigger and more expensive boat and having partners I would be very careful about how you set up the partnership and who you partner with as the initial investment could be substantial (> $10K - real money). There has been a lot of talk of friendships being ruined from getting into partnerships and the complications that can arise when things fall apart. You can get a lawyer to draw up a standard partnership agreement (or make up your own). I would not advise you to go into a partnership with a lawyer though (unless you happen to be a lawyer as well, then you should partner up with someone in the mob). When we were moored off Kings Point our first season the friendly older launch operator asked about our setup. When we told him that there were 3 of us who were owners he said something to the effect that he had been in a partnership with 2 other friends for over 15 years and that it had worked out well. That was reassuring. We have owned our boat together collectively for 4 years now and although there is often talk of getting a bigger boat I have no desire to deal with more boat and more fees. The costs go up exponentially with the size of the boat and the bigger the boat the more time it spends tied up. Ever notice that? Some days over the summer when we are out on our little 27 footer there are no other boats out at all. I feel sorry for the boats. I think about their owners slogging away at their jobs with wives and kids at home unable to sneak away and get to their boats. I happen to be un-employed at the moment and have no kids so my lifestyle is quite different from your average working Joe/Josephine with a mortgage to pay, college tuitions to think about and a rapacious need for a monthly cash flow. Things will change for me too eventually. I believe it was J.P. Morgan who, when asked how much his huge motor yacht cost him said: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
Partners
I have been sailing for about 30 years and have always been in a partnership. Earlier partnerships were on an O'Day 23, Catalina 27, and O'Day 322. Current partnership is on a H356. We have always had four equal partners and our current and preceeding partnership agreement specified how partners could leave and how costs and use were to be shared. The 23 and 27 were not big enough investments to have any formal agreements. Over the years, and over the four boats I have been involved in, partners have gone and been replaced without problems. In each of our partnerships the founding members were friends and if one left he would help find a replacement. As it turns out, the remaining partners usually found a replacement for the departing partner. In our current partnership we have incorporated as an LLC which owns the boat. We tend to sail together a lot and since three of us are retired the boat gets a fair bit of weekday use. Bottom line is that I am sailing a boat that I could not justify owning alone and sharing it with three good friends.
I have been sailing for about 30 years and have always been in a partnership. Earlier partnerships were on an O'Day 23, Catalina 27, and O'Day 322. Current partnership is on a H356. We have always had four equal partners and our current and preceeding partnership agreement specified how partners could leave and how costs and use were to be shared. The 23 and 27 were not big enough investments to have any formal agreements. Over the years, and over the four boats I have been involved in, partners have gone and been replaced without problems. In each of our partnerships the founding members were friends and if one left he would help find a replacement. As it turns out, the remaining partners usually found a replacement for the departing partner. In our current partnership we have incorporated as an LLC which owns the boat. We tend to sail together a lot and since three of us are retired the boat gets a fair bit of weekday use. Bottom line is that I am sailing a boat that I could not justify owning alone and sharing it with three good friends.
Look into Sailtime
Partnerships are not for me, I like the freedom of single ownership. There is a fairly new company out there called Sailtime. They apply proven "timeshare" type strategies to boat ownership. They manage the schedule, the maintainance and all of the other details. I'm sure this comes at a price. The up-side is that they buy brand new Hunters (33 ft range),limit the number of partners to 6 or 7, give you a monthly invoice and can tell you all of the costs up front. The contract covers pretty much all of the situations you may encounter. Like I said, it's not for me but it might be worth looking into. It seems to be gaining in popularity so they must be doing something right. There are Sailtime franchises all over the country. Check out the link below. Tom s/v Orion's Child www.sailtime.com
Partnerships are not for me, I like the freedom of single ownership. There is a fairly new company out there called Sailtime. They apply proven "timeshare" type strategies to boat ownership. They manage the schedule, the maintainance and all of the other details. I'm sure this comes at a price. The up-side is that they buy brand new Hunters (33 ft range),limit the number of partners to 6 or 7, give you a monthly invoice and can tell you all of the costs up front. The contract covers pretty much all of the situations you may encounter. Like I said, it's not for me but it might be worth looking into. It seems to be gaining in popularity so they must be doing something right. There are Sailtime franchises all over the country. Check out the link below. Tom s/v Orion's Child www.sailtime.com
Make it Legal
I have been in two partnerships owning airplanes. They both worked well and both were legal contracts. Technically the partnership was a corporation and we bought "shares". The contract stated a price per hour of flying which covered fuel and a little extra. All fixed costs and repairs were shared equally. Shares could be bought and sold with the approval of the other shareholders. We did have a deadbeat that got behind on his payments but we got the money when he finally sold his share. He had to pay up before we would agree to the sale. But overall I really liked shared ownership. Like any human endeavor the end results depends upon the humans involved. A contract gives some protection but the main protection depends upon chooseing partners carefully.
I have been in two partnerships owning airplanes. They both worked well and both were legal contracts. Technically the partnership was a corporation and we bought "shares". The contract stated a price per hour of flying which covered fuel and a little extra. All fixed costs and repairs were shared equally. Shares could be bought and sold with the approval of the other shareholders. We did have a deadbeat that got behind on his payments but we got the money when he finally sold his share. He had to pay up before we would agree to the sale. But overall I really liked shared ownership. Like any human endeavor the end results depends upon the humans involved. A contract gives some protection but the main protection depends upon chooseing partners carefully.
Lease Arrangement
I have thought about doing this too. While I absolutely love my boat and time on her the costs are not inconsiderable. It is worth it but I am always interested in finding a way to save some money. I thought about a boat owning partnership but rejected it for the same reasons. Disputes over maintenance, upgrades, buying someone out, etc. Another idea I am still toying with is a lease type arrangement. I still own the boat outright and am responsible for all upkeep and maintenance. I would instead look for people who want to sail it and for that they pay a portion of the yearly mooring/storage fees. I would love to save on these as I get no real return on them. Upgrades to the boat contribute something to the boats value but the storage etc does not. There is no way I can be out on her as often as I would like so if I can find people who would like to pay for the privelege of using her on some reasonable basis we all win. My boat gets used, I save on the yearly costs, I still retain ownership and all decisions on boat work are mine alone. It seems this would simplify the whole arrangement a lot. I have people pay the "lease" at the beginning of the season which gives them rights to use the boat on some schedule. If they don't want in next year that's fine. I figure if I could find 2 or 3 people willing to do this it would work. Would definitely meet first and bring out on a test sail first to observe them. Maybe look at some type of bond or insurance in case of damage. Thoughts?
I have thought about doing this too. While I absolutely love my boat and time on her the costs are not inconsiderable. It is worth it but I am always interested in finding a way to save some money. I thought about a boat owning partnership but rejected it for the same reasons. Disputes over maintenance, upgrades, buying someone out, etc. Another idea I am still toying with is a lease type arrangement. I still own the boat outright and am responsible for all upkeep and maintenance. I would instead look for people who want to sail it and for that they pay a portion of the yearly mooring/storage fees. I would love to save on these as I get no real return on them. Upgrades to the boat contribute something to the boats value but the storage etc does not. There is no way I can be out on her as often as I would like so if I can find people who would like to pay for the privelege of using her on some reasonable basis we all win. My boat gets used, I save on the yearly costs, I still retain ownership and all decisions on boat work are mine alone. It seems this would simplify the whole arrangement a lot. I have people pay the "lease" at the beginning of the season which gives them rights to use the boat on some schedule. If they don't want in next year that's fine. I figure if I could find 2 or 3 people willing to do this it would work. Would definitely meet first and bring out on a test sail first to observe them. Maybe look at some type of bond or insurance in case of damage. Thoughts?
Sailing Club
About 13 years ago, the Admiral and I came across a boat dealer who had a clever marketing scheme that he called the Sailing Club: for $1000, he gave you use of a Catalina 22 for about seven scheduled days. You would give him a list of your preferred dates for the scheduled sails, and he would take all of the other "time sharers'" lists and make up a master schedule. You could also arrange to use the boat on any day it wasn't scheduled to be used by someone else for a nominal fee (I think it was $15). Included in your fee was as many lessons as he/you felt necessary. If you bought a boat from him during the season, the full $1000 was credited towards your purchase. Just show up at the dock, the sailcovers would be off, the jib hanked on, the outboard gassed up, and you were ready to go. At the end of the day, just dock the boat. The staff took care of the rest. Sweet. We wound up not buying that summer (turns out the Admiral was pregnant with crew), but it was a great deal. You might want to see if any dealer near you has a similar offer.
About 13 years ago, the Admiral and I came across a boat dealer who had a clever marketing scheme that he called the Sailing Club: for $1000, he gave you use of a Catalina 22 for about seven scheduled days. You would give him a list of your preferred dates for the scheduled sails, and he would take all of the other "time sharers'" lists and make up a master schedule. You could also arrange to use the boat on any day it wasn't scheduled to be used by someone else for a nominal fee (I think it was $15). Included in your fee was as many lessons as he/you felt necessary. If you bought a boat from him during the season, the full $1000 was credited towards your purchase. Just show up at the dock, the sailcovers would be off, the jib hanked on, the outboard gassed up, and you were ready to go. At the end of the day, just dock the boat. The staff took care of the rest. Sweet. We wound up not buying that summer (turns out the Admiral was pregnant with crew), but it was a great deal. You might want to see if any dealer near you has a similar offer.
Liability
The problem with renting out your own boat is liability. Maybe a strong waiver would give some protection. But they fall and get hurt. You are liable because of non skid or whatever. They ram the Island Packet that was just bought for $600,000 poking a big hole in the side. They have no boat insurance does your insurance cover "business" use?? They have friends over and get drunk. Their drunk friend falls overboard and drowns. The friend's wife sues you the owner because you have deeper pockets...You should have made sure that he was wearing a PFD while on your boat. With a corporation or limited partnership you have a lot of financial protection in that all you can lose is your share of the endeavor. But if you are the owner they can take your house, the shirt off of your back and your future wages!!!!! I guess you could form a corporation with you being the sole owner.
The problem with renting out your own boat is liability. Maybe a strong waiver would give some protection. But they fall and get hurt. You are liable because of non skid or whatever. They ram the Island Packet that was just bought for $600,000 poking a big hole in the side. They have no boat insurance does your insurance cover "business" use?? They have friends over and get drunk. Their drunk friend falls overboard and drowns. The friend's wife sues you the owner because you have deeper pockets...You should have made sure that he was wearing a PFD while on your boat. With a corporation or limited partnership you have a lot of financial protection in that all you can lose is your share of the endeavor. But if you are the owner they can take your house, the shirt off of your back and your future wages!!!!! I guess you could form a corporation with you being the sole owner.
True
The Liability would be something to consider but could be managed. One way or the other there is paperwork to worry about to protect yourself. The only relatively safe way is just pay for everything yourself and only you use your boat. Either of these ventures opens up a level of risk. I realized also the renting has other options. I could have people pay a flat fee for the whole season including x number of days. I could also have people pay a "membership" fee at the beginning of the season and then pay a per day fee for just the days they want to use it. A lower rate for weekdays than weekends. Whether a partnershp or renting I would want to make darn sure anyone knows how to operate the boat in a way the protects my boat, other boats and those on them. Maybe require ASA certification.
The Liability would be something to consider but could be managed. One way or the other there is paperwork to worry about to protect yourself. The only relatively safe way is just pay for everything yourself and only you use your boat. Either of these ventures opens up a level of risk. I realized also the renting has other options. I could have people pay a flat fee for the whole season including x number of days. I could also have people pay a "membership" fee at the beginning of the season and then pay a per day fee for just the days they want to use it. A lower rate for weekdays than weekends. Whether a partnershp or renting I would want to make darn sure anyone knows how to operate the boat in a way the protects my boat, other boats and those on them. Maybe require ASA certification.
My Experience
I've had two different partners on two different boats in the past 8 years or so. It's worked out great, for the most part. The key is to know your partner extremely well. This means know his sailing preferences (racing, daysailing, overnighting, etc) and his pocketbook and spending preferences (when will he agree that the old rags need to be replaced?). AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure his admiral is on the same page. While you and he may be the best sailing buddies and see eye-to-eye on everything on every boat decision imaginable, bear in mind that even though it's a 50/50 partnership, he may not have control of his 50%! You may have more partners than you think.
I've had two different partners on two different boats in the past 8 years or so. It's worked out great, for the most part. The key is to know your partner extremely well. This means know his sailing preferences (racing, daysailing, overnighting, etc) and his pocketbook and spending preferences (when will he agree that the old rags need to be replaced?). AND, MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure his admiral is on the same page. While you and he may be the best sailing buddies and see eye-to-eye on everything on every boat decision imaginable, bear in mind that even though it's a 50/50 partnership, he may not have control of his 50%! You may have more partners than you think.
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