Paint

[Flamingo1]

I'm getting ready to paint Ole Butterscotch and I've looked at West Marine, Amazon and marine stores for the paint and was leaning toward Interlux.

A friend of mine has a contact with a paint supply company and that contact suggested:

Urethane White - 1 Gallon
Urethane catalyst - 1 quart
Poly Epoxy Primer Gray - 2 gallons
Poly Epoxy Primer catalyst - 1 gallon.

I would be getting the above at a discount as opposed to paying full price for the Interlux and, other than making a small sale, there's no incentive for this gentleman to deceive me. But, I'm a rookie/noob and, as a result, I'm just not sure which way to go. Will this lay on using the roll/tip method just like Interlux? Any special issues that I need to consider?

 

[CloudDiver]

That's way too much paint dude... For epoxy barrier coat you need 2 gallons total volume that will do the hull, rudder, and keel. It only took me 2 quarts to put 3 coats on the hull above the waterline, Roll and Tip method, but if you are also doing the cabin, decks, and cockpit white also the a gallon total should do it.

 

[Flamingo1]

That's way too much paint dude... For epoxy barrier coat you need 2 gallons total volume that will do the hull, rudder, and keel. It only took me 2 quarts to put 3 coats on the hull above the waterline, Roll and Tip method, but if you are also doing the cabin, decks, and cockpit white also the a gallon total should do it.

That's the kind of feedback I am looking for. I wasn't planning to do the cabin, decks and cockpit - just the waterline up - but perhaps that wasn't communicated clearly. The keel and hull below the waterline also need to be painted - so perhaps I should go ahead and do that at the same time. It's significantly more prep time, but it probably should be done but I don't really want to do the bottom in white. Perhaps a quart of white to put 3 coats on the hull above the waterline and another quart for the keel and hull below waterline?

I was going to do the decks and cockpit later. Most of the paint on decks and cockpit is still in pretty good shape but there are some areas with spider cracks. I was going to take the time to grind those out, patch and then paint - but that's a boatload of work AND it would require removal of all of the deck hardware. Not sure that I am up to that just yet. The non-skid is a mess - it looks like it was applied with a mop by a P.O. So, I am inclined to leave the deck/cockpit alone for the moment until I figure out how much I want to restore and how much I want to sail.

 

[CloudDiver]

We gotta figure out what you have... You say spider cracks on deck and cockpit. Paint does not spider crack, Gelcoat does that. Do you have a C-22 or a Mac 21?
For paint, I would forget the 2 part urethanes your friend is offering to sell you unless you plan to spray, but you did say roll and tip. Go with Interlux Interprotect Epoxy Barrier Coat, 2 gal will do the entire bottom, rudder, and keel. 1 Gallon of Interlux PreKote Primer prime everything, sides above waterline and the deck, cabin, cockpit, etc. Whatever color you decide for the hull above the waterline, use single part Brightsides, you only need 2 quarts. The best prices online for Interlux paints is the SBO store (this website).
You didn't say if you are using anti-foul paint on the bottom or dry sailing the boat?

 

[Flamingo1]

At the moment, I have both a Mac Venture 21 and a Catalina 22 - but I'm going to be selling the Mac.

I keep the Catalina 22 in dry storage at Lake Pleasant just north of Phoenix. See pic - you can see why I would like to get some paint on the hull.

 

[CloudDiver]

Ok, for the cabin, cockpit, and decks... If you want to save yourself lots of time and money don't paint them, just repair the gelcoat cracks with Spectrum Gelcoat Paste, then wet sand all the white gelcoat with 400 and then 600 grit and polish it with fine rubbing compound, wax and it will look sparkly new. All the old nasty nonskid the PO put on, sand it as flat as you can reasonably but don't worry about taking all of it off completely... roll over a new coat of Kiwi Grip non-skid with the proper roller and it will look great.
If you will ALWAYS dry sail the boat and do not intend to use anti-foul paint then you can paint the bottom with the Brightsides color of your choice, you'll have to add at least a quart to cover the bottom and keel, so I'd say you can't go wrong with getting a gallon total of your choice of color. You'll save yourself TONS of time and pain if you forget about the boot-stripe and just paint the whole hull at once. Later, if you do want a boot stripe, I'd suggest just using a 3 inch wide vinyl tape... same thing with the sheer stripe but its only a 3/4" inch stripe. the amount of time and cost of painters tape is worth the money you'd spend on the vinyl tape later.

 

[Flamingo1]

Ok, for the cabin, cockpit, and decks... If you want to save yourself lots of time and money don't paint them, just repair the gelcoat cracks with Spectrum Gelcoat Paste, then wet sand all the white gelcoat with 400 and then 600 grit and polish it with fine rubbing compound, wax and it will look sparkly new. All the old nasty nonskid the PO put on, sand it as flat as you can reasonably but don't worry about taking all of it off completely... roll over a new coat of Kiwi Grip non-skid with the proper roller and it will look great.
If you will ALWAYS dry sail the boat and do not intend to use anti-foul paint then you can paint the bottom with the Brightsides color of your choice, you'll have to add at least a quart to cover the bottom and keel, so I'd say you can't go wrong with getting a gallon total of your choice of color. You'll save yourself TONS of time and pain if you forget about the boot-stripe and just paint the whole hull at once. Later, if you do want a boot stripe, I'd suggest just using a 3 inch wide vinyl tape... same thing with the sheer stripe but its only a 3/4" inch stripe. the amount of time and cost of painters tape is worth the money you'd spend on the vinyl tape later.

Thank you very much for the tips. I'm going to try repairing the gelcoat cracks as you suggested. The decks/cockpit have a chalky residue. Do we address that by waxing as you suggested?

 

[CloudDiver]

The chalky residue is called oxidation, it will come off by wet sanding with 400 grit, and then 600 grit. If you need to get more aggressive you can start with 320 grit. DO NOT go down to 220 or 120, that is taking too much off. After the 600 grit wet it will have a dull shine... then use rubbing compound on a wool bonnet, then wax.

 

[allen-deckard]

I've had good luck doing the same as cloud diver suggested except not using the buffing and continuing up with my sander stepping up 800, 1500, 2000 then 3000 grit paper never been that great buffing getting even cut I seem to have a lot more control with the paper myself.

 

[CloudDiver]

Capt Don uses Poli-glow to restore and maintain his gel-coat. I haven't used it myself but I trust his judgment. It is a good alternative but a somewhat expensive line of products. When refurbishing a white sailboat deck/cabin/cockpit, I would suggest (at least for the first major go at it) to invest the sweat equity into repairing gelcoat cracks and crazing first and then wet-sanding by hand followed by compounding/waxing. The investment in supplies is low, but labor is high. If you are stuck in doors for the winter, why not? The results will astound you, should last more than a season or two, and then you can follow up in later years with Poli-glow for up-keep.
http://www.poliglow-int.com/

 

[Flamingo1]

Capt Don uses Poli-glow to restore and maintain his gel-coat. I haven't used it myself but I trust his judgment. It is a good alternative but a somewhat expensive line of products. When refurbishing a white sailboat deck/cabin/cockpit, I would suggest (at least for the first major go at it) to invest the sweat equity into repairing gelcoat cracks and crazing first and then wet-sanding by hand followed by compounding/waxing. The investment in supplies is low, but labor is high. If you are stuck in doors for the winter, why not? The results will astound you, should last more than a season or two, and then you can follow up in later years with Poli-glow for up-keep.
http://www.poliglow-int.com/

I'm in Phoenix - so I'm not stuck in doors all winter! I assume that you don't hibernate for winter either over in San Diego.
I actually have a free weekend this weekend, so I may see if I can pick up some Spectrum Gelcoat Paste and set about doing a bit of filling and repairing. It is supposed to be in the 70s this weekend. (I apologize to those folks living in the snowy areas).

 

[Gene Neill]

I've had good luck doing the same as cloud diver suggested except not using the buffing and continuing up with my sander stepping up 800, 1500, 2000 then 3000 grit paper never been that great buffing getting even cut I seem to have a lot more control with the paper myself.

Same here. I can get better shine with sandpaper than with buffing (although I'm still trying).

 

[CloudDiver]

LOL, I forgot about looking at your location... I lived in Phoenix from winter 2012 to summer 2013. The biggest thing you have to worry about is it being TOO hot!
I'm not sure of any place you can buy Spectrum Gel Paste, best thing to do is order it off the website. It may be white but it's still 'color matched' for your year Catalina.
I found the best way to work thickened Gel Paste (particularly on spider cracks/crazing) is to use a dremel tool with an engraving bit. You want to 'cut out' the crack exactly along the line, this prevents wasting gelcoat paste. Go all the way down until you touch the laminate but you don't have to grind deep into it.
The $5 pack of plastic mixing sticks made by West Systems are the best little spatulas for this job, they have those at West Marine. Acetone is a must for cleaning and dewing before you you apply the gel paste.

I'm in Phoenix - so I'm not stuck in doors all winter! I assume that you don't hibernate for winter either over in San Diego.
I actually have a free weekend this weekend, so I may see if I can pick up some Spectrum Gelcoat Paste and set about doing a bit of filling and repairing. It is supposed to be in the 70s this weekend. (I apologize to those folks living in the snowy areas).

 

[Flamingo1]

My paint has arrived. It is supposed to be sunny and 70 for the next two days and I am anxious to get started. I may be delusional, but I am hoping to get the prep work completed tomorrow including filling a couple of minor nicks and scratches - and I would like to have at least the first coat of primer on by end of business on Sunday.

 

[Flamingo1]

I made some progress this weekend including light sanding from waterline to rail with 120 grit before moving to 220 grit. I removed (almost all of) the hardware from the stern. I patched some crazing at the bottom of the stern using epoxy (as suggested by the local sailboat shop) and used fiberglass patching on a couple of scratches on the sides and one gouge on the bow. The patching came out great. I have a bit of sanding to do on the epoxied area, but I'm letting it cure before hitting that.
Issue - I cannot find any access to the gudgeons or to the lower ladder support brackets. I tried the access areas beneath the lockers and cannot get to the bolts. I may end up taping them off and painting around them, but I think the finish would be superior if I could remove them. In the starboard locker I found the dreaded foam. I believe I would be able to access the ladder support brackets if not for the foam. as for the gudgeons, I don't see any way to access them at all.

The boat is a 1972 full keel - any suggestions??

 

[CloudDiver]

You have what appears to be the upgraded rudder gudgeons, I can tell by the plastic spacer that is in them. The pintles should be 1/2" diameter vs. the old 3/8". The top gudgeon should have no backing nuts, the screws should just turn out. On the inside of the transom a bronze plate is in there that is drilled and tapped with threads then glued in place at the factory. The bottom gudgeon should have thru-bolts with washers and nuts. You can get to that from the port side locker, just look down to the lower middle of the transom. For the ladder mounts, same thing on the starboard side.
In my resto thread you can see where I cut a large access hole in the cockpit liner to get to the upper gudgeon backing plate. I decided to remove mine because I wanted thru-bolts with nuts, I also upgraded the bolt size to 5/16". The hole gets covered with a standard round plastic inspection cover.

 

[Flamingo1]

The top gudgeon has slotted screws holding it in and the bottom gudgeon does indeed appear to have bolts - so everything you stated appears to be 100% accurate. There is an access panel in the bottom of my starboard locker and, when you lift that up, all you see is foam.

From what you stated above, I feel more comfortable taking out the screws for the top gudgeon. My concern was being able to put it back together if there were nuts on the other side. But if there is a plate glued to the transom, that should alleviate that issue. Bottom gudgeon may still get taped off. I will give it another shot to see if I can access it in any way from the port locker - but the bottom ladder bracket is on the starboard side and I don't see any way to access that unless I am prepared to start cutting out the foam.

Do you recommend removing the foam? It isn't necessary - correct?

 

[CloudDiver]

The foam issue came up in another thread... Some people suggested the extra buoyancy foam was a P.O. modification for racing, others said it was actually once a factory option on the older boats. Either way, the only way to get at the backing nuts is to remove it... I guess you just have to ask yourself if its worth it to go through all of that or just paint around the hardware?

 

[Flamingo1]

Never any easy answers...

 

[Flamingo1]

Painted. Sanded. Put on second coat.

I can barely raise my arms. Probably too breezy tomorrow as forecast is for 20 mph winds. Will put third coat on on Sunday - I hope. Once finished, is there anything that I need to do to final coat? I assume I do not sand last coat.