Owning vs. Sharing in MI?

JimInPB · Jul 30, 2018

A sailing school sounds like a good start.

A sailing club might also be a good option. Often, owners of medium to large size boats are looking for crew at no cost. Sailing clubs are often a good place to find people like that. Crewing on those boats is a great way to build time & see if you like it.

Chartering a fully crewed boat for a vacation may be a good next step before buying a big boat. Chances are that the professional crew will let you take the wheel as often as you want & you will have their skills to fall back on if you don't do as well as you had hoped. It's also likely that you will pick up a lot of useful tricks from seeing the way that the pro crew operates.

A 27' Catalina can be trailered, but it's not easy & you would need a heavy duty truck to pull it. It's about a 7,000# boat. A 2,500# Catalina 22 is a genuine trailer sailor that many prefer to start with. A C22 is not terrible as a spartan weekend explorer, but I certainly would not recommend it for a Delos class adventure. Something like the C22 might be worth considering as a stepping stone before you take the plunge & buy a bigger hole in the water into which money gets poured faster. A C22 at a fair price can usually be sold in a reasonable amount of time. They have a pretty steady following.

This is a good place to look up basic data on most sailboats that are out there -
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=814
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=200

Scott T-Bird · Jul 30, 2018

dmdiehl64 said:
Traverse City is about a 2hr drive but the Great Lakes Sailing School has a program that looks intriguing. I could see the benefit in doing that for a year at a significant cost advantage to buying outright ($1,300 for 10 full days).

For what it's worth, boat at the top of my list at the moment is a 1983 Catalina 27 (w/ trailer although certainly not a "trailer sailer"), restored to beautiful condition.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

The Catalina 27 will be an excellent first boat for sailing on the Great Lakes. I would not recommend a trailer-sailer for Great Lakes sailing, but that is just one sailor's opinion.

I don't know how anybody can sail in Grand Traverse Bay and then decide that sailing is not for them … it just doesn't register in my brain! But, with respect to the Sailing School and getting 10 full days for $1,300, I don't know how you can go wrong. I think I would jump at that opportunity. For one thing, with 10 days under your belt, I think you will learn a lot about the boat you might be most interested in. What boats do they have for you to sail?

Alansails · Jul 30, 2018

We started sailing by crewing with others on board Catalina 22's, than bought one sailed it for 9 yrs, than a Catalina 25 TR which we sailed for 10 years including a few years on Lake Erie, (you pick your weather window) than we went to our 310.
Crewing with others is a great,inexpensive way to learn good things and Bad things and you will know the difference!
We were always up front that we did not know alot but were excited to go and race. Find a club or marina and be bold ask if anyone is looking for crew to race or just go out! you will be surprised as to how many will take you up!
Have Fun and Welcome!

DayDreamer41 · Jul 30, 2018

There are a couple of yacht clubs on Saginaw bay who have a regular race schedule Bay City YC and Huron YC in Caseville for starts. Bay City YC has a form you can fill out to apply to crew on a boat, or better yet you can go down to any of the clubs and ask around, sailors are most always friendly and willing to point you in the right direction. I would say that going to the other side of the state would be an unnecessary drive.
I am up in Port Huron and occasionally race and would be more than happy to take you and your wife out for a sail, while the boat we have isn't in your size range you will certainly get a feel for the joy of sailing.

http://www.baycityyachtclub.com/

Tally Ho · Aug 2, 2018

I did a 3-day class at Michigan City Sailboats before I bought my first boat, worthwhile class, and at the end, I could charter a boat from them.

I chartered a few times that summer, but bought my first boat ( a Hunter 280) that winter and have not looked back since (10 years ago).

You only live once and time is short....so,if it is some,thing you want to do and can afford it, go for it.

As @Scott T-Bird said, beautiful sailing grounds up there...hard to believe you wouldn’t love it.

Greg

Will Gilmore · Aug 2, 2018

Welcome to our, now yours too, forum, Dmdiehl64.
I hope you become a longtime member of both the SBO forum and sailing.
There are lots of approaches that are reasonable ways to get into sailing and onboard a sailboat. You sound like you've already taken a good one. The competent DIYer can pickup a small used trailerable that would meet your immediate needs for under $2000, but research and caution is stressed. This forum is a great place to post questions about used boats you are interested in. Sailing schools are great for information and contact resources as well as how to's. Just going out and shopping for used boats can give you a lot of information, especially if you can get the owner to take you on a test sail. If you join a yacht club, they often host seminars, events and will have a swap board or Web forum. The nice thing about yacht clubs is their reciprocal relationships with other clubs. Your membership in one club can get you guest status in other clubs across the country. This includes boat borrowing from their fleet. Not all of them have the same organisation, so ask about it when you look into membership. They will have a list of clubs with a reciprocal association. This may seem like a more expensive way to do it, and it is for some, but in the end, you may save $$ and time and stress.
Listen to your wife's opinions, it sounds like you already do. Very sensible. You are on the right track.
Let us know a little more about who you are. Do you have time and resources to work on a fixer-upper, can you afford a new boat, do you prefer camping or hotels, how big is your truck?

Welcome, it's good to have you join us.

- Will (Dragonfly)

jssailem · Aug 3, 2018

@dmdiehl64 Welcome to the forum. We are a gathering of sailors. Sailors all have opinions. Of course mine is the best opinion and I am not shy. But I have been told by a few that my thoughts are scrambled by the beer they have shared with me.
So with the preliminaries out of the way.

I think I understand your challenge. How do you experience sailing with out buying a big boat that your wife may or may not like?

First you are in a great location to go sailing. Michigan has many lakes including the Great Lakes. There are many opportunities to join clubs, take lessons, and crew on other boats. All of these will be informative and build your knowledge of what to do on a sail boat. I did that as a teenager and young adult when money was tight and I wanted to sail.
My first boat purchase was a 15 ft Montgomery. It was trailer-able. Had a cabin big enough to sleep to close friends. I had a box that contained all my camping stuff for cooking. It was like a boat tent that I could live in for a week. It had 3 sails, a main, a jib, and a asymmetrical spinnaker. All of the skills to fly these sails are the same skills I use on my now 35 foot boat.

What I am getting at is owning a small boat that you day sail, take to different places, learn to sail, make mistakes, and recover is an easy way to get into this glorious experience.

Montgomery's are no longer made new, there is a used market for the boats, and there is the Sage that is built on the same principals. The West-Potter is also in the same class of pocket yacht 15-22 ft. There are many boats that have low entry cost and afford day sailing adventures. You can sail it like you would ride a bike. Pick your spots. Pull to shore and get a motel, or camp out. The sailing experience will be visceral in a small boat.

And if your wife tells you it is not her cup of tea, you are not heavily invested. You can either sail the boat solo or sell it and recoup some of the investment you made. Bonus... you have had some fun.

Most important. Get out on the water.
Fair Winds.

FDL S2 · Aug 3, 2018

$1300 for 10 charters sounds like a decent deal while you figure out if it's for you.
I would suggest a smaller boat to start like jssailem suggests.
Small boats connect you with the water and wind in a way a larger boat doesn't-especially as a beginner. The fundamentals are the same, but your proximity to the water and the immediate response to your trim and tiller adjustments in a smaller boat will teach you a lot. Also they are a lot less complicated.

Gunni · Aug 13, 2018

SailTime Traverse City:
https://sailtime.com/target-bases/traverse-city/

You are falling for beginner’s trap - buying a boat before you even know what you need. Sort of like marrying the first girl you date. Don’t do it.

I sailed OPB for years (other people’s boats). My dad’s, my friend’s, their friend’s, paid crew, and a metric ton of charters. I sailed a bunch of very expensive, poorly designed junk. Got some sail time on boats I will never be able to afford or maintain. By the time I was done dating boats I knew what I wanted in a boat and what I did not with a high degree of certainty. I was able to shop and purchase a boat that was perfect for me and the family. She is a joy to skipper and sail.

Boat ownership is a hassle, and there are many days when you sit working at the boat while other crew and charter people go sailing. I have seen boat ownership destroy marriages through neglect, stress and bad behavior. Be careful.

Take classes, learn to sail, send your wife to sailing school without you and rent lots of boats. Get a copy of John Rousmaniere’s Annapolis Book of Seamanship. Read it three times.

Will Gilmore · Aug 13, 2018

dmdiehl64 said:
storage at home in the city = not gonna happen = $$ for lot or beer to use a buddies space,

Check out the Com-pac 16s. They will probably fit in your garage, if you have one. I don't remember who said it, but someone on SBO wrote that they knew someone who sailed theirs across the Gulf Stream to Bimini for weekends. That should handle typical great lakes sailing.

- Will (Dragonfly)

BigEasy · Aug 13, 2018

As others have advised, you can’t go wrong with the Great Lakes program for $1300. Take some ASA certification courses from them.
Bet they offer weekend group charter trips on some of there bigger boats too. At some point, once you have some experience and a bareboat charter rating, they will allow you to charter larger boats.
Those experiences will give you a good idea of what size & design that you would feel comfortable handling & May want to own.

Owning vs. Sharing in MI?

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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