Overflowing head

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Jan 22, 2008
402
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
I checked a couple of threads via Google on this.

Today I was out in force 5 winds today coming from the west so I was on a port tack heading north out on Lake Ontario.

About an hour or so into it I thought I smelled odors from the bilge. When I went down below the head was completely full and it was leaking ALL OVER the place. It was a god awful mess...

I cleaned it up and tried to continue and after a few minutes the bowl was full again. I had turned the pump to the dry switch and the water intake valve was shut AFTER the disaster... The head is about 2 years old and is a Raritan/Jabsco type simple manual pump model (I can't remember exact model and make)

The water intake hose has a vented loop and the through hull is located on the port side. The holding tank is on the port side too and the intake hose from the head to the holding tank in on the upper port side of the tank so when I was healed this intake was at the highest point.

When I turned around and headed back it didn't happen again.

I pumped the tank a few months ago so I am pretty sure the tank was not full.

This has never happened before and I sail in some pretty sporty conditions...is it possible the holding tank was fuller than I thought? I just don't see how ram water or siphoning could be the issue.

Thanks for any thoughts
Chris


...it was like a scene from that Karen Silkwood movie when I got home...I can't scrub enough to get the smell out of my mind!
 
Mar 6, 2011
25
Catalina 30 mk1 Horseshoe Bay
The wet bowl setting will let water in. Likely if you are in rough seas too. Always shut that thru hull off. I heard of a boat that sunk this year due to that thru hull left open.

If you leave it in dry setting you shouldn't get water in. If the joker valve is leaking it will allow back flow. This sounds like the problem you have. If on a port tack it may overflow like you said it did. Replace that joker valve and all will be good.
 
Apr 1, 2012
142
Pearson 424 Charleston, SC
A similar thing happened to me recently, though we did not get any overflow just a half filled bowl a few times during a sail. I was convinced we had either a bad joker valve or something stuck in it because:
Jabsco head is less than 1 year old.
Had pumped the holding tank out recently and only were on the boat for one weekend since pump-out.
Then it occurred to me that even though we had emptied the holding tank recently, we had two guests on the boat for an afternoon. Both said they had used a marine head before, may have been true but as it turns out they must have pumped 10 gallons of water through that thing between the two of them in just a few short hours!
We pumped out and our problems went away.
 
Jan 22, 2008
402
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
Thanks for the advice guys. I am really hoping the joker valve isn't the issue...I just bought the damn thing 1 or 2 years ago...I lube it and pour that West Marine lube down the bowl every once in awhile...wtf!

However...Spindrift's post might be spot on...I did have guests the day before and they used the toilet a few times...maybe they lowered the Lake level a bit!!!

Well, I'll go drain the tank and take her out for a spin on the port side and see if it happens again. If so, I guess I'm getting 'dirty'

Thanks guys!
Chris
 
Feb 27, 2005
187
Hunter 33.5 Missouri
Same thing happened to us, new Jabsco head 1 year old. Joker valve began leaking. Replaced it and it corrected the backflow issue.
 
Jan 22, 2008
402
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
As a follow up. I finally pumped the tank. The marina told me it takes about a minute to pump our 15 gallons and it took just about that much time.

That means the previous users being land lubbers did a right good job flushing!

I was out yesterday in 20-25kt in 4-6' seas and things were fine. So hopefully it was a combination of a full tank, intake valve open and flush set to wet. All corrected!
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,023
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
You won't get back flow from an empty holding tank. It's been my experience that the Jabsco joker valves need to replaced pretty much annually. Could be wrong, but I suspect you'll have the same problem the next time the tank is over half full and you sail in the conditions you described. Replace the joker valve and pump out the tank on a regular basis, before it's completely full. A 15 gallon tank fills up quicker than you think with a few guests on the boat.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
As others have pointed out, it's the joker valve. Based on your description, you have the Jabsco head. There is a BIG difference between Jabsco and Raritan. Essentially the Jabsco's are kind of crap (ha, pun not intended).

For starters, you can use the Raritan joker valve in the Jabsco head. It's a much better quality and only marginally more money. That will last multiple seasons unlike the Jabsco that are really only good for one season depending on how much you use your boat.

Second, pump more in dry mode after use. With the Jabsco pump you probably need to pump 10-15 more times once you see the bowl go dry. Essentially one of the issues is that if you don't pump enough you won't get the waste over the vented loop. A typical problem is that most people only pump until the bowl is empty. At that point the waste is sitting between the joker valve and the top of the vented loop. If the joker valve is failing and allows the waste to come back, it creates a siphon effect and can pull more waste out of your tank. This is important for winterization too because the alcohol in the antifreeze can degrade the joker valve if you let it sit there.

Lastly, stop wasting your money on the West Marine head lube. Use vegetable oil instead. Way cheaper and just as good for lubing the head.

Good luck and fair winds,

Jesse
 
Jan 22, 2008
402
Catalina 380 16 Rochester NY
Thanks guys, I will order a new joker valve and I'll go with the Raritan.

As a side though. I have a vented loop for the intake hose, but the outtake from the toilet goes straight to the tank. I never thought to vent that...

I've never seen any pictures of the waste hose being vented, I just assumed those were all intake loops. Wouldn't adding 2-3' of height in the waste hose create a need for A LOT of water to flush everything out?

I'm not even sure where I would loop this hose. I have the intake hose fastened to the aft bulkhead in the head. I didn't think running it under the counter top would be high enough above the water line when heeling to port.

Any pictures out there...I'm going to look as soon as I hit Submit Reply.

Geez, I thought I was done!
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,400
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Thanks guys, I will order a new joker valve and I'll go with the Raritan.

As a side though. I have a vented loop for the intake hose, but the outtake from the toilet goes straight to the tank. I never thought to vent that...

I've never seen any pictures of the waste hose being vented, I just assumed those were all intake loops. Wouldn't adding 2-3' of height in the waste hose create a need for A LOT of water to flush everything out?

I'm not even sure where I would loop this hose. I have the intake hose fastened to the aft bulkhead in the head. I didn't think running it under the counter top would be high enough above the water line when heeling to port.

Any pictures out there...I'm going to look as soon as I hit Submit Reply.

Geez, I thought I was done!
Re. Raritan valves in Jabsco head, you will feel some increased back pressure, since they are a stiffer material and design, and cannot open as far. The Raritan head develops more pressure and can deal with this difference.
 
Aug 3, 2009
35
Catalina 30 Everett, WA
We always empty our holding tank every time we come back in after a sail (if it has been used).
 
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