Peggy, Thanks for the quick response. Your recommendation was my initial thought and the seacock is next on the worklist. But the part of the explanation that I can't reconcile is that when I disconnected the head pump from the raw water intake and let the hose just sit on the floor of the head, no water flowed. I had expected a large gushing flow if there was an open, below-the-waterline path to the thru-hull. So I guess my next call is to Hunter to try to understand how they engineered/installed the hose and head - with the key questions being is it below the waterline and is there, hidden behind the cabinetry, a vented loop for each head feed? Thanks again.
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Without seeing it...
...the only thing my "psychic powers" can visualize from here is that the disconnected end of the hose was above the waterline, 'cuz when the boat's at rest, water will only rise in hose to the boat's waterline. Did water rise in your bowl when the boat was just sitting, or did it happen while you were underway? 'Cuz an effect called "ram water" would do it while underway without necessarily starting a siphon...and a siphon break (vented loop) won't stop ram water.
...the only thing my "psychic powers" can visualize from here is that the disconnected end of the hose was above the waterline, 'cuz when the boat's at rest, water will only rise in hose to the boat's waterline. Did water rise in your bowl when the boat was just sitting, or did it happen while you were underway? 'Cuz an effect called "ram water" would do it while underway without necessarily starting a siphon...and a siphon break (vented loop) won't stop ram water.
Diagram
Isn't there a diagrame of the plumbing in the owners manual? I am going to check mine this weekend and will let you know if I find anything interesting.
Isn't there a diagrame of the plumbing in the owners manual? I am going to check mine this weekend and will let you know if I find anything interesting.
Head anti-syphon line
I have a 94 Passage 42. The anti-syphon hose for the forward head runs behind the fwd shower stall. Access to the loop is through the forward cupboard which has one side against the shower wall. There are about 4 screws that hold the cupboard side panel in place. Behind that is a soloniod operated valve that allows air into the anti-syphon loop. When the electric head button is pressed, the valve is activated and closes off the air which allows seawater to be drawn in for the flush. There is a short length of vinyl tubing that runs from the valve to the top of the anti-syphon tube. This could be plugged. My fwd head also overflowed once... but I had left the seacock for the discharge mascerator open. The seawater slowly worked its way back into the holding tank and completely filled it before working back up the lines and into the head. The aft head anti-syphon is hidden in the starboard closet closest to the head wall. There is a wooden panel held by 2 or 3 screws which removes easily to access it. The same solonoid valve arrangement is there. Phil
I have a 94 Passage 42. The anti-syphon hose for the forward head runs behind the fwd shower stall. Access to the loop is through the forward cupboard which has one side against the shower wall. There are about 4 screws that hold the cupboard side panel in place. Behind that is a soloniod operated valve that allows air into the anti-syphon loop. When the electric head button is pressed, the valve is activated and closes off the air which allows seawater to be drawn in for the flush. There is a short length of vinyl tubing that runs from the valve to the top of the anti-syphon tube. This could be plugged. My fwd head also overflowed once... but I had left the seacock for the discharge mascerator open. The seawater slowly worked its way back into the holding tank and completely filled it before working back up the lines and into the head. The aft head anti-syphon is hidden in the starboard closet closest to the head wall. There is a wooden panel held by 2 or 3 screws which removes easily to access it. The same solonoid valve arrangement is there. Phil
Plugged vent line on vented loop will not...
...cause a toilet to overflow. It will only defeat the purpose of the vented loop--which is to break a siphon. From John's description of his problem, it's highly unlikely that it's caused by a siphon.
...cause a toilet to overflow. It will only defeat the purpose of the vented loop--which is to break a siphon. From John's description of his problem, it's highly unlikely that it's caused by a siphon.
overflowing head continued (again)
The next chapter in this is that a Hunter rep told me via email that there is in fact a vented loop, as was mentioned by Phil, but he also said that the head is ABOVE the waterline. So my next question was "OK help me understand how it overflows, sitting at the dock, if it's above the waterline....." I think the culprit probably is the thru-hull/valve on the macerator pump and I'm getting backflow but still can't figure out why it overflows if it's above the waterline. Time to use the heads ashore
The next chapter in this is that a Hunter rep told me via email that there is in fact a vented loop, as was mentioned by Phil, but he also said that the head is ABOVE the waterline. So my next question was "OK help me understand how it overflows, sitting at the dock, if it's above the waterline....." I think the culprit probably is the thru-hull/valve on the macerator pump and I'm getting backflow but still can't figure out why it overflows if it's above the waterline. Time to use the heads ashore
One way to find out...
Leave one seacock open at a time and watch to see whether the bowl fills. If it fills when only the intake seacock is open, water is coming in through the intake. If it fills when only the discharge seacock is open, it's coming back up the discharge. However, unless you have a defective joker valve in the toilet discharge, I find it hard to believe that, on a brand new boat, that's the direction it's coming from..'cuz the joker valve should keep it out of the bowl. And--unless you flush longer than 99% of boat owners--the water wouldn't be clean, 'cuz it's backing up through a "used" hose that hasn't had enough water through it to rinse it out completely.
Leave one seacock open at a time and watch to see whether the bowl fills. If it fills when only the intake seacock is open, water is coming in through the intake. If it fills when only the discharge seacock is open, it's coming back up the discharge. However, unless you have a defective joker valve in the toilet discharge, I find it hard to believe that, on a brand new boat, that's the direction it's coming from..'cuz the joker valve should keep it out of the bowl. And--unless you flush longer than 99% of boat owners--the water wouldn't be clean, 'cuz it's backing up through a "used" hose that hasn't had enough water through it to rinse it out completely.
Wave Action Is The Cause
As Peggie mention - leave one seacock open at a time, but while the problem could be from both, my guess is that it is from the intake. With the boat at rest in calm waters neither will leak since the head is above the water line. But with wave action, the boat will rock up and down. The waves will move up and down faster than the boat can pitch, there by changing the level of the internal water level / line. My guess is that the problem is from the intake. The out (overboard line) if leaking will 1st have to fill the holding tank, (which has happen to me when I left the seacock open by mistake), then the wave action becomes disminished. When sailing my P-42, if heeled excessivly (fun) to starboard, I needed to close the seacock on the forward head & the sink to prevent water from slopping on the floor. Good Luck.
As Peggie mention - leave one seacock open at a time, but while the problem could be from both, my guess is that it is from the intake. With the boat at rest in calm waters neither will leak since the head is above the water line. But with wave action, the boat will rock up and down. The waves will move up and down faster than the boat can pitch, there by changing the level of the internal water level / line. My guess is that the problem is from the intake. The out (overboard line) if leaking will 1st have to fill the holding tank, (which has happen to me when I left the seacock open by mistake), then the wave action becomes disminished. When sailing my P-42, if heeled excessivly (fun) to starboard, I needed to close the seacock on the forward head & the sink to prevent water from slopping on the floor. Good Luck.
Overflowing head... continued
Re: vented loop plug. Peggy, I think you misread my message. At the top of the vent loop (in the Hunter P42) is the air inlet. Hunter run a short vinyl tubing from this fitting to an electric valve. The valve is normally open which allows air into the vent loop, breaking the syphon action. If that small tube becomes blocked, then the vent loop is defeated and water WILL syphon into the head. I would also note that the forward head in the P42 IS BELOW waterline and WILL overflow. I know this all too well from experience, although the problem with mine was a back flow through the macerator pump to the holding tank and up through the head... regardless of joker valves!
Re: vented loop plug. Peggy, I think you misread my message. At the top of the vent loop (in the Hunter P42) is the air inlet. Hunter run a short vinyl tubing from this fitting to an electric valve. The valve is normally open which allows air into the vent loop, breaking the syphon action. If that small tube becomes blocked, then the vent loop is defeated and water WILL syphon into the head. I would also note that the forward head in the P42 IS BELOW waterline and WILL overflow. I know this all too well from experience, although the problem with mine was a back flow through the macerator pump to the holding tank and up through the head... regardless of joker valves!
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