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Please elaborate!
Mike: Please elaborate on what you want to know. What boat? What do you want to know?
Mike: Please elaborate on what you want to know. What boat? What do you want to know?
For Example
ideas for the arrangement of blocks and lines for outhaul and reefing systems attached to the outside of the boom which will give some mech. advantage when adjusting under load. I have seen some schemes that look good, but I was interested some in other ideas for comparison.
ideas for the arrangement of blocks and lines for outhaul and reefing systems attached to the outside of the boom which will give some mech. advantage when adjusting under load. I have seen some schemes that look good, but I was interested some in other ideas for comparison.
Combinations
There are literlly hundreds of possible arrangements for reefing and outhauls. Depends on how may reefs you want to support, whether you want lines run back to the cockpit, how many lines you're willing to yank on and/or ease, whether boom-mounted cleats are OK, how much friction you want to deal with, how much purchase you need on your outhaul (and reefs, perhaps), how much money you want to spend, etc., etc. The biggest trick (or compromise) is getting the proper amount of outhaul purchase on the aft reef cringles. Usually, the reefing lines simply aren't set up (or strong enough) to pull hard enough to flatten the sail. And in high winds you definitly want to have your sail as flat as possible. I didn't want to compromise on that score so I have mine set up so after I pull the reef points down, I manually move my outhaul shackle (and boom slug) to the new reef point. I don't think I can properly paint a word picture of all the bits and pieces, though. Someday, I'll draw a picture....
There are literlly hundreds of possible arrangements for reefing and outhauls. Depends on how may reefs you want to support, whether you want lines run back to the cockpit, how many lines you're willing to yank on and/or ease, whether boom-mounted cleats are OK, how much friction you want to deal with, how much purchase you need on your outhaul (and reefs, perhaps), how much money you want to spend, etc., etc. The biggest trick (or compromise) is getting the proper amount of outhaul purchase on the aft reef cringles. Usually, the reefing lines simply aren't set up (or strong enough) to pull hard enough to flatten the sail. And in high winds you definitly want to have your sail as flat as possible. I didn't want to compromise on that score so I have mine set up so after I pull the reef points down, I manually move my outhaul shackle (and boom slug) to the new reef point. I don't think I can properly paint a word picture of all the bits and pieces, though. Someday, I'll draw a picture....
Need info too, help!
I need some info also on an out haul. I have a Beneteau F235. There are 3 internal lines in the boom. 1 is for outhaul, 2nd jiffy reef outhaul, 3rd, can't remember?? Anyway, there is no mechanical advantage inside the boom. The lines simply go inside the boom and out the other side. On the mast side there is a clip that you push up to lock the line, on the aft end of the boom the line simply come out through little sheves. I can't for the life of me figure out how to get any leverage when outhauling. My 19' Lightening has more mechanical advantage for outhaul. I want to rig an external outhaul with 2:1, or 3:1 ?? not really sure. There seems to be no information on how to properly do this. I can find lots of parts in catalogs, but no real instruction on the best way to fig this. I read a lot about sailboats, and one thing I've noticed is a lack of books on rigging every day things, like this outhaul, a cunningham, etc.. I can find tons of books on sail trim, racing tactics, building a sailboat, but rigging, can't find any information. If someone can explain a little about what I should be looking to do, and the parts I need, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Steve
I need some info also on an out haul. I have a Beneteau F235. There are 3 internal lines in the boom. 1 is for outhaul, 2nd jiffy reef outhaul, 3rd, can't remember?? Anyway, there is no mechanical advantage inside the boom. The lines simply go inside the boom and out the other side. On the mast side there is a clip that you push up to lock the line, on the aft end of the boom the line simply come out through little sheves. I can't for the life of me figure out how to get any leverage when outhauling. My 19' Lightening has more mechanical advantage for outhaul. I want to rig an external outhaul with 2:1, or 3:1 ?? not really sure. There seems to be no information on how to properly do this. I can find lots of parts in catalogs, but no real instruction on the best way to fig this. I read a lot about sailboats, and one thing I've noticed is a lack of books on rigging every day things, like this outhaul, a cunningham, etc.. I can find tons of books on sail trim, racing tactics, building a sailboat, but rigging, can't find any information. If someone can explain a little about what I should be looking to do, and the parts I need, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Steve
Outhaul
Steve: I had the same problem with the outhaul on my C30. It never worked properly. The problem was with the swivel arrangement inside the boom. How I got around it was to disconnect it and add two small Harken triple blocks. One is attached to the clew of the sail and the other to the end of the boom. You can see a picture of it at http://www.tcsn.net/bosun/c30/cat30info.htm. Go to the section on "Don's Mods". If you have a loose footed main you can use a better system, which involves adding a short piece of track to the end of the boom and attach a sliding car, which connects to the clew of the sail.That system is virtually friction free. The outhaul is one of the most important sail trim controls on the boat so it is important to get it to work.
Steve: I had the same problem with the outhaul on my C30. It never worked properly. The problem was with the swivel arrangement inside the boom. How I got around it was to disconnect it and add two small Harken triple blocks. One is attached to the clew of the sail and the other to the end of the boom. You can see a picture of it at http://www.tcsn.net/bosun/c30/cat30info.htm. Go to the section on "Don's Mods". If you have a loose footed main you can use a better system, which involves adding a short piece of track to the end of the boom and attach a sliding car, which connects to the clew of the sail.That system is virtually friction free. The outhaul is one of the most important sail trim controls on the boat so it is important to get it to work.
Outhaul
You gave me a great idea for a book!!!
I have a 2:1 purchase on my outhaul. I'll try to describe. Starting from the cabin top near the cockpit I have a Lewmar rope clutch. The line runs from there to a deck organizer near the mast step. At the mast step it runs through a single block on the right side of the mast step. It then runs up and around another single block that's floating free about halfway between the boom and the mast step. It runs down to a shackle back to left side of the mast step. That's the 2:1 purchase. It goes from one side of the mast step to the other because there's a vang in the middle and I don't want to interfere with that. Also, since it's symmetrical, the outhaul doesn't change when the boom swings from one side to the other. There's another line attached to the clevis pin on the free floating block. That line goes up through a hinged block attached mast up close to the boom. The line then runs through a couple of eye straps on the underside of the boom to a block that's attached to the aft of the boom. The line then runs around the block and forward. It ends in a shackle that's connected to the mailsail clew and to a D-shackle that's webbed to an outhaul slug (to keep the clew from rising). (My lines don't run inside the boom.) The outhaul block at the end of the boom isn't really ALL the way at the end. It is attached to a block that is REALLY attached to the end of the boom. When I reef, the reef clew is about 18" farther forward than the regular clew. I adjust this line to compensate. If I don't, the 2:1 purchase arrangement near the mast gets all out of whack. I'd like to modify it so that it's 3:1 or 4:1. Maybe next year. (BTW: I love Lightnings! Wild time on the Potomac yesterday w/20-25kt winds!!)
You gave me a great idea for a book!!!
I have a 2:1 purchase on my outhaul. I'll try to describe. Starting from the cabin top near the cockpit I have a Lewmar rope clutch. The line runs from there to a deck organizer near the mast step. At the mast step it runs through a single block on the right side of the mast step. It then runs up and around another single block that's floating free about halfway between the boom and the mast step. It runs down to a shackle back to left side of the mast step. That's the 2:1 purchase. It goes from one side of the mast step to the other because there's a vang in the middle and I don't want to interfere with that. Also, since it's symmetrical, the outhaul doesn't change when the boom swings from one side to the other. There's another line attached to the clevis pin on the free floating block. That line goes up through a hinged block attached mast up close to the boom. The line then runs through a couple of eye straps on the underside of the boom to a block that's attached to the aft of the boom. The line then runs around the block and forward. It ends in a shackle that's connected to the mailsail clew and to a D-shackle that's webbed to an outhaul slug (to keep the clew from rising). (My lines don't run inside the boom.) The outhaul block at the end of the boom isn't really ALL the way at the end. It is attached to a block that is REALLY attached to the end of the boom. When I reef, the reef clew is about 18" farther forward than the regular clew. I adjust this line to compensate. If I don't, the 2:1 purchase arrangement near the mast gets all out of whack. I'd like to modify it so that it's 3:1 or 4:1. Maybe next year. (BTW: I love Lightnings! Wild time on the Potomac yesterday w/20-25kt winds!!)Thanks!!
Thanks big time Don and Doug, with your help, I can now rectify a nagging situation I've been living with, not being able to properly outhaul. BTW Don, I have your book, it's great. Doug, write that book! Thanks again, Steve
Thanks big time Don and Doug, with your help, I can now rectify a nagging situation I've been living with, not being able to properly outhaul. BTW Don, I have your book, it's great. Doug, write that book! Thanks again, Steve
Outhaul
MJ of Annapolis: Did you review my recent answer. With the simple two small Harken triple blocks I have there is more than enough mechanical advantage - I could pull the the cringle out of the clew of the sail if I wanted to. So many sailors ignore the outhaul, which is sad because it controls the bottom 2/3 of the mainsail and is one of the most important sail trim controls on the main. Sadly, on most C30's, the outahul is jambed in some position and the owner just sails the boat that way. They could get so much more out of the boat if they would just fix it and adjust the sail for the wind condition and point of sail they are on.
MJ of Annapolis: Did you review my recent answer. With the simple two small Harken triple blocks I have there is more than enough mechanical advantage - I could pull the the cringle out of the clew of the sail if I wanted to. So many sailors ignore the outhaul, which is sad because it controls the bottom 2/3 of the mainsail and is one of the most important sail trim controls on the main. Sadly, on most C30's, the outahul is jambed in some position and the owner just sails the boat that way. They could get so much more out of the boat if they would just fix it and adjust the sail for the wind condition and point of sail they are on.
Outhaul
Steve: If you liked my book you'd love my Sail Trim chart. It lists every sail trim control for your main and jib and gives you the optimum setting for every wind condition and point of sail. Additionally, it gives step by step proceedures to set twist etc. When all else fails, it evens has a a trouble shooting section. It is laminated for cockpit use. I also include free a Quick Reference Sheet, which outlines the sail trim controls that are used to set draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of atack. Those 4 elements are all there is to sail trim. The Chart is sold by our host Sailboatowners.com. Check it out and see if it would be a value to you. I, after you receive it, you find it's not of value to you, I'll refund your money and you can keep it!!
Steve: If you liked my book you'd love my Sail Trim chart. It lists every sail trim control for your main and jib and gives you the optimum setting for every wind condition and point of sail. Additionally, it gives step by step proceedures to set twist etc. When all else fails, it evens has a a trouble shooting section. It is laminated for cockpit use. I also include free a Quick Reference Sheet, which outlines the sail trim controls that are used to set draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of atack. Those 4 elements are all there is to sail trim. The Chart is sold by our host Sailboatowners.com. Check it out and see if it would be a value to you. I, after you receive it, you find it's not of value to you, I'll refund your money and you can keep it!!
Don, I got your Sail Trim Charts too great stuff
Don, picked up both the book and sail trim charts last year, when you were doing the guest expert forum. I highly recommend them. Thanks for your help .. take care
Don, picked up both the book and sail trim charts last year, when you were doing the guest expert forum. I highly recommend them. Thanks for your help .. take care
Jim, you can find Don's book here
http://shop.Hunterowners.com/books/bookdetail.tpl?sku=102.2&cart=32309733194811&fno=0 this is the chandlery on this site, under books. get the sial trim charts too, they are worth it.
http://shop.Hunterowners.com/books/bookdetail.tpl?sku=102.2&cart=32309733194811&fno=0 this is the chandlery on this site, under books. get the sial trim charts too, they are worth it.
Don, What's your book name
Jim: The name of the book is "The Sail Trim Users Guide" and it is available on this site. There is also a chart called "The sail Trim Chart", which is also available here. The chart lists every sail trim control for the main and jib and gives you the setting for each point of sail and wind condition. It has a bunch of other stuff too which will help you obtain 100% efficiency from your sails. The Chart tells you WHAT to do and the book tells you WHY you are making a particular sail trim adjustment. They both work together and when you finish the book you'll know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide. That's my guarantee!! Also, the material is written in very simple English. It had to be that way so I could understand it.
Jim: The name of the book is "The Sail Trim Users Guide" and it is available on this site. There is also a chart called "The sail Trim Chart", which is also available here. The chart lists every sail trim control for the main and jib and gives you the setting for each point of sail and wind condition. It has a bunch of other stuff too which will help you obtain 100% efficiency from your sails. The Chart tells you WHAT to do and the book tells you WHY you are making a particular sail trim adjustment. They both work together and when you finish the book you'll know more about sail trim than 75% of the sailors worldwide. That's my guarantee!! Also, the material is written in very simple English. It had to be that way so I could understand it.
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