Outhaul and traveler basic help please

[Newoldcatalina]

Hi all,

Trying to get my 84 Catalina 22 on the water for the first time and struggling with clear guidance for basic rigging instructions. Though I see lots and lots a guidance on tweaks and tuning in the forums and Technical Manuals.

Two basic questions please...

1. Outhaul
As shown in the photo, I have an eye strap and a block at the end of my boom. There's a clam cleat (jam cleat?) on the starboard side of the boom further on. The clew of the main has a line that just has a stopper knot on it (sorry the picture doesn't show the actual knot on the other side).

Simplest approach for outhaul seems to be running it from the stopper knot at the clew to the block and then back to the clam cleat, with the stopper knot holding the outhaul to the mainsail. Does this seem like the way it was intended to be done, at least by the previous owner?

Unsure of this because (1) stopper knot seems like a surprising way to attach, and (2) pad eye at end is unused. But I guess that last pad eye is just for the pigtail from backstay for boom lift.

2. Traveler
Have attached a photo of my traveler bar. I just tie lines to the loops at the left and right bases of the traveler bar, route each through its side of the traveler and then back through the fair leads and cam cleats on the inside of the transom? I assume it doesn't matter much, but any recommended knot for tying to the loop at the base of the traveler bar?

Thanks!

Boom - Aft end

Boom - Port side

Boom - Starboard side

Clew with stopper knot on other side

Traveler Bar:

 

[AaronD]

Your traveler routing sounds about right to me. I didn't want to tie line through the sharp-ish holes in the little tangs, so I tied them around the vertical bars instead, securing them to the tangs with a shackle, so it can't slide up off and around the corner. Maybe gains a 1/2" of traveler travel - or not

Outhaul: One possibility - you could try tying the bitter end to the eye strap at the end of your boom. From there -> Through the sail cringle -> back to block -> cleat. That gains just a bit of purchase on the line - in theory, 2:1, but with friction through cringle, probably only 1.2:1 or something.

 

[Newoldcatalina]

Thanks! That's reassuring. Am seeing that what I think are the traveler lines (though they're around 20 ft. long!) also have a stopper knot in them so will try that approach to at the tang to reduce the abrasion.

Another question... What's the secret to loosening this type of turnbuckle?? (And yes I'll need to get a straight one eventually!)

Thanks!

 

[BigEasy]

Open end wrench on nut & open end wrench on flat, just above threaded surface on stud. Break nut loose, then unscrew stud from turnbuckle barrel using wrench on flat.

 

[JBP-PA]

Those don't have a flat. I use a Phillips (aka round shaft) screwdriver through the hole.
Note also that one end is right hand thread, the other is left hand thread.

 

[BigEasy]

Those don't have a flat. I use a Phillips (aka round shaft) screwdriver through the hole.
Note also that one end is right hand thread, the other is left hand thread.

Good recommendations, especially Rt/Lt threads & Phillips in hole. That toggle in the photo does have a flat.

 

[JBP-PA]

Good recommendations, especially Rt/Lt threads & Phillips in hole. That toggle in the photo does have a flat.

The toggle has a flat. The barrel does not.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

Newoldcatalina:

Congratulations on your new boat! I fully understand your desire to get her on the water for a first sail. Based on your photos, your swaged threaded stud is what is bent and generally, it is the softer T-bolt that bends if the standing rigging is in a bind during the mast raising process. With this in mind, I would ask the PO if he/she knows the age of the standing rigging. If you cannot verify the age, I think that replacing the standing rigging should be on your "to do" list. I hope this helps.

George

 

[ambler]

penetrating oil (WD40) helps. Put some inside the barrel also. The closed barrel is said to trap water and promote corrosion. The new replacements from Catalina Direct have an open design. The turnbuckle has to have R and L hand threads, otherwise turning the barrel would tighten one end and loosen the other.

 

[stevenhagberg]

That kind of turnbuckle is the only kind of rigging failure I have experienced. The togggle broke a few threads up into the toggle and U lost my cap shroud. Fortunately didn't lose the mast....turned downwind and got the sail down. Since then I have replaced the turnbuckles on both boats I have had since then.
In my opinion that turnbuckle and shroud or stay should be replaced before you go sailing.
Enjoy your new boat!

 

[Newoldcatalina]

Interesting... Thanks all for the inputs! Got the boat sailing but was trailering it in and out, and it was a bear of a process to say the least. Lots to figure out in terms of streamlining...

Using the screwdriver in the turnbuckle hole was one of the things I was wondering about. Good to hear that's a thing. Need to find a very thin one! Need to WD-40 them as well; that probably would have made it much easier.

All of the turnbuckles are the same cylindrical style. Only the forestay is bent. But replacing the front three turnbuckles with quick release levers seems like one of the likely changes; are new stays sold together with the quick release levers? The boat was not used for 25 years so the actual number of cycles on these stays is pretty low; so not necessarily planning to do the others at this stage.

Tried doing the mast without a mast stepper or gin pole which was a terrible idea, so will need to figure out best approach for that as well... Using the boom as a gin pole (stingy sailor style) seems complicated because of the custom bracket. 2x4 with a crutch as gin pole, ratchet straps as baby stays, and boom vang or main sheet attached to forestay are approaches I'm leaning towards for raising/lowering, but have to look into it more.

On the fence whether to try to DIY a mast stepper or just buy from CD. Using square tubing from flex-craft.com looked promising but shipping ends up being the challenge. Will try to find a local welder/machinist to ask.

Placing and removing mast bolt was surprisingly hard and added to the stress of doing it with human mast steppers. I think the mast step was probably a bit bent out of shape (and it's worse now after our efforts).

Found that the keel lock down bolt doesn't turn, but keel moves fine; existing grooves in the keel indicate that it was used like that before it went into storage for 25 years.

Will need to find faster connectors to connect main sheet to traveler and boom (and forestay) as well.

 

[pgandw]

I used a 2x4 for my first gin pole on my 19ft Mariner (25ft mast). It broke at the jaws that fit around the mast on my 2nd or 3rd use - naturally single handing away from home. Replaced it with a 2x6, and reinforced the outside of the jaws with metal straps. Gin pole is just under 6ft long to fit inside the forestay triangle at any point.

I used 1/4" line baby stays attached 6ft up the mast through blocks lined up with an extended mast line when at a 45 deg angle. The stretch in the line allows me to cleat the baby stays tight on setup, and they will stop sway all the way up. These take time to rig, as does the gin pole, but I can do the whole operation single handed now without fear of something dropping/breaking/falling. On the Mariner, the swept back shrouds make things easy once I get near vertical.

Fred W
Mariner 19

 

[Newoldcatalina]

Thanks for the inputs!

I used a 2x4 for my first gin pole on my 19ft Mariner (25ft mast). It broke at the jaws that fit around the mast on my 2nd or 3rd use - naturally single handing away from home. Replaced it with a 2x6, and reinforced the outside of the jaws with metal straps. Gin pole is just under 6ft long to fit inside the forestay triangle at any point.

Did you just cut a notch in the bottom of the 2x6 to fit around the mast? Metal straps on the outside means something like these 6" mending braces along the edges? https://www.lowes.com/pd/ReliaBilt-ReliaBilt-6-in-Zinc-Plated-Mending-Plate-1-Pack/5003415887

...baby stays attached 6ft up the mast through blocks lined up with an extended mast line when at a 45 deg angle...

You're saying you've put eyestraps or something 6 ft up the mast, and put blocks on the gunwale about 4'3" aft of the mast step? Not sure what you mean by extended mast line... I think 4'3" aft from the mast step would be straight down from the connection point on the mast if it's 6ft up and at 45 degrees. But I would have thought the constant tension on the back stays would be achieved by having the deck connections in line with the mast step so the pivot point is the same as the mast.

...but I can do the whole operation single handed now without fear of something dropping/breaking/falling.

The holy grail! I can only dream of it now...

 

[pgandw]

Thanks for the inputs!

Did you just cut a notch in the bottom of the 2x6 to fit around the mast? Metal straps on the outside means something like these 6" mending braces along the edges? https://www.lowes.com/pd/ReliaBilt-ReliaBilt-6-in-Zinc-Plated-Mending-Plate-1-Pack/5003415887

You're saying you've put eyestraps or something 6 ft up the mast, and put blocks on the gunwale about 4'3" aft of the mast step? Not sure what you mean by extended mast line... I think 4'3" aft from the mast step would be straight down from the connection point on the mast if it's 6ft up and at 45 degrees. But I would have thought the constant tension on the back stays would be achieved by having the deck connections in line with the mast step so the pivot point is the same as the mast.

Mariner raises the mast from the stern. The pin and slot arrangement in the tabernacle don't allow anything different. Being a 3/4 rig with a large main and smallish jib, raising the mast from the bow pulpit makes little sense. So replacement of the standard tabernacle with a hinged mast base that can go either direction isn't worthwhile.

Here's a photo of my gin pole top. The jib halyard attaches to the center eye, and the forestay attaches loosely to the other eye.

I used angle mending plates (4) to makes sure that sucker didn't splinter on me again (I was very tired of dropping the mast and am afraid of doing major damage to boat and/or mast if it continued). I used a hole saw to initially cut the notch, and then used a wood file to enlarge until it fit. There is a 5/16" t-nut epoxied at the base of the notch, which holds a 5/16" threaded rod, which fits into a pre-existing hole on the front of the mast. The reversing ratchet trailer winch is mounted on the under side of the gin pole.

Underside of the gin pole. The end of the winch line goes through a block on the stem head fitting - normally used for jib down haul - and back to a mooring cleat. Should have mounted the winch a little closer to the mast to avoid any clearance problems with the cabin top. But not close enough for winch handle to interfere with mast.

You can see the starboard baby stay (black line) in this photo. The cabin top has too much camber to get the block at the same height as the mast pivot pin. So I moved the block a couple of inches forward of the mast to compensate for the lower height of the block. The other point of having the blocks slightly forward of the tabernacle is that the baby stays prevent the mast from sliding out of the tabernacle by applying some forward pressure on the mast.

The roller mounts on top of the aft mast crutch, and is an essential part of the rig. On a Mariner, the normal trailering position of the mast on the crutch puts it too low to raise easily. And when lowering the mast, it smashes into the aft edge of the sliding hatch. Adding this to the aft crutch puts the tail end of the mast high enough to clear the sliding hatch. The roller makes it very easy to slide the mast back and forward into the tabernacle for raising, or the reverse for lowering. This was a lot of trial and error, and learning from the errors.

Sweet P all rigged for trailering. I have trailered on trips over 400 miles now. The white band on the fender is tape to hold some outdoor carpet on the inside corner of the fender. Previous owner determined (and I confirmed) there is enough bounce on roads these days that the hull would occasionally strike the fender. Neither PO or I wanted to raise boat on trailer so carpet protects it, and we still have minimal depth required to launch.

Fred W
Mariner #4133 Sweet P

 

[Newoldcatalina]

Thanks much for the further detail... will digest. What car are you using to pull? Good to see someone else managing (I think) without a beefy truck. I'm using a Sienna.

 

[pgandw]

I have a Kia Sorento and a Hyundai Palisade. But a Mariner weighs 1350 lbs - racing minimum. With trailer, motor, and cruising gear is going to be less than 2500 lbs, well under tow capacity for both vehicles. A Catalina 22 is supposed to weigh 2250 lbs as built. With trailer and motor and gear is likely be a minimum of 3200 lbs, . Edited to correct weight figures based on saildata.com.

Fred W

 

[ShawnL]

We use an 8' 2x4 with a chunk of plywood (cut-out in a mast shape kinda) as a mast stepper. Though we do only step 2x per season -- once in, once out. But it works decently. Step 1, get the mast stepper sitting on the cockpit floor with the mast on top of it. Then we kind of inch it along the cockpit floor, one person lifting, one pushing, until we get it as far forward as we can. Then we lift the mast and push with the 2x4 until it's vertical-ish. One person grabs the mast, sticks the rear out toward the bow and keeps it in place while the stays are attached. It's an imperfect thing. But it gets the mast up.

 

[Newoldcatalina]

Thank you for the reminder of a practical simple approach! Am thinking to get a Stingy Sailor stepper fabricated, and this could be a very good interim solution.

 

[Newoldcatalina]

We use an 8' 2x4 with a chunk of plywood (cut-out in a mast shape kinda) as a mast stepper. Though we do only step 2x per season -- once in, once out. But it works decently. Step 1, get the mast stepper sitting on the cockpit floor with the mast on top of it. Then we kind of inch it along the cockpit floor, one person lifting, one pushing, until we get it as far forward as we can. Then we lift the mast and push with the 2x4 until it's vertical-ish. One person grabs the mast, sticks the rear out toward the bow and keeps it in place while the stays are attached. It's an imperfect thing. But it gets the mast up.

If you have a pic of the mast stepper, I'd love to see it.

A couple of other questions as well:
- How do you keep it in the initial low angle needed to put in the pin at the base? Am thinking maybe to start with the 8' 2x4 on the ground outside the boat to start with. I guess my mast step must be way out of alignment, as getting the pin in took a lot of time and fiddling for me, so the person holding it had a hard time maintaining position. Will work on straightening out the mast step.
- But then the next question -- how do you get the 2x4 to vertical on the deck? Seems like it would be a bit tough to maneuver in the limited cockpit space, before the 2x4 is near vertical. You basically have a person just walk it up (after pinning to the step) until it's high enough to put the mast step under?
- I assume you don't bother with baby stays for sideways movement?

Thanks!

 

[ShawnL]

That's pretty much correct. We usually have 2 or 3 people to step the mast. We start with the 2x4 outside on the ground at the transom, then slide the mast back and get it hooked up. Then one or 2 people lift from the cockpit to get the 2x4 from the ground into the cockpit. Then we tag team lifting and scootching it forward. Once it's as far forward as we can get, one person stands on the cabin top and one in the cockpit. We lift and push. Once it's up, someone stands in front of the mast and pulls on it to keep it in position while the forestay is attached.

We don't really worry too much about side-to-side movement. Even with just the 2 of us, we can usually keep it pretty straight.

I've seen better ways to do it, using a gin-pole attached to the mast and the main-sheet blocks attached to the forestay. As we get older and loose the ability to get our kids to help, we'll probably try that. We do have a strange setup for our mast step (a build by a previous owner) so it may prove a little more difficult for us). There's a bunch of videos on youtube showing people's setups.