outboard - short vs long

Sumner · Sep 21, 2011

I would keep looking especially considering where you are going to go. We found our long shaft 5 HP Nissan used on Craigs list in San Fran..

We use a 9.8 HP Tohatsu extra long shaft on our S and mounted it a little higher to reach the controls easier. It is in the water the same depth as a long shaft and it came out a couple times in Florida under conditions you are likely to also encounter. It was just for a couple seconds, so no harm, but a short shaft would of been out a lot more.

You don't need to be worried about hurting the motor and maybe not having it just when you might need it the most,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

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Carolyn1964 · Sep 21, 2011

I have a extra long shaft and I am GLAD it is worth the extra $$ Here in puget sound when the weather goes to crap and you need to motor home the waves can be a bit much for a short shaft. It all depends on where you plan on sailing

Robspan · Sep 21, 2011

This topic has come up on the forum a few times. Iirc, almost everyone agrees - no double entendre intended - that the longer the better.
Rough weather is when the propeller is most likely to be hobbyhorsed out of the water, and is also when you need the propeller the most.

JRacer · Sep 21, 2011

Robspan said:
This topic has come up on the forum a few times. Iirc, almost everyone agrees - no double entendre intended - that the longer the better.
Rough weather is when the propeller is most likely to be hobbyhorsed out of the water, and is also when you need the propeller the most.

^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^

Yep, when you need it the most, you will want the prop in the water!

MrBill_FLL · Sep 22, 2011

25"+ = long shaft.

Sumner · Sep 22, 2011

MrBill_FLL said:
25"+ = long shaft.

Bill 25" is the length of our extra-long shaft, I think that is what you meant. 20" for a long shaft and I've seen 15-16" for the short shaft. It was a while before I even knew there was an extra-long shaft.

Here is a link with recommendations for boats...

http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Help.html?Question=Shaft-Length

....but it is general. I like the flexibility we have with the extra-long shaft being able to run it either as a long or extra-long shaft and if someone is considering sailing in heavier water I'd go that route for a little more money.

The other thing to consider is that our prop needs are generally different than a power boat. I've re-propped all of our motors,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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tkanzler · Sep 22, 2011

Given my experiences with small sailboats with off-center outboards, I'd get the longest shaft I could, mount it on an adjustable mount, and run it at 'normal' (anti-cav plate even with bottom of boat) depth in calm water, while keeping the ability to run it deeper for rough water. As long as the prop can be tilted clear of the water for sailing and docking, either by itself or in conjunction with raising the motor mount. Having been in rough spots with the prop spending half the time out of the water, I'd want to do whatever I could to improve the odds of keeping it working.

Freedom77 · Sep 22, 2011

When we bought our V-222 in '71 we transferred our Merc 4 short shaft from our V-21. We had the built in motor well. we knew quickly that it wouldn't do the job because it would cavitate even in a small swell. V-222 tend to hobbyhorse in rough weather. We traded up to a merc 7.5 longshaft and never had any problems after that. I would definetly go with a long shaft no larger than 7.5 hp. We have a Honda 7.5 on Freedom because it is a 4 stroke and has a trickle charger. Many areas are now banning 2 stroke outboards. Hope this helps. Fair winds and full sails...

Sumner · Sep 22, 2011

Freedom77 said:
.... I would definitely go with a long shaft no larger than 7.5 hp. We have a Honda 7.5 on Freedom because it is a 4 stroke and has a trickle charger. Many areas are now banning 2 stroke outboards. Hope this helps. Fair winds and full sails...

I agree that the 7.5 is large enough, but if you want the safety feature of elect. start I don't think you can find that on an outboard less then 8 HP. That is a shame and I would think someone who put electric start on a 5-8 HP would find a market for them.

We would still be using the 8 HP Honda that came on our boat if it had electric start. We now feel having that is vital to our safety. Also on the Tohatsu/Nissans you can't get the extra-long shaft in the 8 HP which is the same outboard as the 9.8. If we could of gotten the extra-long shaft we probably would of gotten the 8. This is not to say someone needs the extra-long shaft as the long shaft is all that most people need,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

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Faris · Sep 22, 2011

5 hp is large enough. That's what I use (long shaft), and I've motored through some pretty crazy stuff. She doesn't go anywhere in a hurry, but is adequately powered in all conditions.

MrBill_FLL · Sep 22, 2011

Faris said:
5 hp is large enough. That's what I use (long shaft), and I've motored through some pretty crazy stuff. She doesn't go anywhere in a hurry, but is adequately powered in all conditions.

What pitch prop are you running?
and how much current and chop have you run it against?

you can prop a 5 hp to push against the tide... but your top end will suffer, or it will blowup..

You won't really know how well it will do, Until you are waiting for a bridge, and a 4 knt current is pushing you towards the bridge, and there is traffic waiting and powerboats going by on both sides.... then add in some wind and rain, and you've still got 10 minutes till it opens.

Some good operator skills can help you overcome low hp, and staying away from bad situations in the 1st place.

but get the longest shaft you can.

Faris · Sep 23, 2011

MrBill_FLL said:
What pitch prop are you running?
and how much current and chop have you run it against?

Pitch? I have no idea. I've powered through 4+ ft chop in gale winds, and regularly get tidal currents of 4+ kts. She gets up to hull speed without maxing the throttle out. I've occasionally had to go against a stiff tide with a head wind, and at those times wished I had a bit more thrust, but I also can cruise a week on 1-2 gallons of fuel, and that's with a fair amount of motoring. So, I think it's worth it.

I wouldn't want to have less than 5 hp though, or to push a bigger boat with it.

Sumner · Sep 23, 2011

Faris said:
Pitch? I have no idea...

If it is a Nissan/Tohatsu or maybe a Merc 4/5/6 HP there are a couple props that might have more thrust than yours if yours has the stock one on it.

Our Nissan 5 HP had a 7.7 dia. 8 pitch and we put on a 7.9 dia. 6 pitch. Later I saw where they had 8.375 dia. 6 pitch that comes on the extra-long shaft 6 HP SailPro model stock.

http://www.tohatsuoutboardparts.com/Props-and-Hardware.html

It looks like the 4 HP comes stock with a 7.7 dia 7 pitch.

We had to use the Nissan once on the S and the 6 pitch pushed her fine in 20-25 mph....

....winds, but no current at 5 knots at part throttle. I never tried to get to hull speed with that outboard. In fact we have never been interested in hull speed with any of them. Our normal speed is 5-6 knots if we are just on the outboard.

We found out in Florida that dealing with even moderate current takes a greater amount of thrust than high winds. If I was doing more than day sailing in Florida and taking trips where I didn't know what I was going to be up against I would want at least the SailPro high thrust on a 5/6 HP and really for a 25 or the 26 Mac would want at least a 7 to 10 HP outboard that had a larger higher thrust prop.

We run a 4 blade 7 pitch on the 9.8 HP Tohatsu and liked it in Florida a lot. We carry the original 4 blade 5 pitch as a spare. Even with 4 blade 7 pitch combo we almost got into trouble a couple times. It was me on the tiller misjudging the current that caused us to have problems, but the outboard got us out of them. If I would of made the same mistake with the 5 HP I think we would of contacted an object that should of not been contacted.

Most outboards have high pitch props available and for a sailboat that has to operate at hull speed vs. a motorboat I think they are the way to go. That way you also have the other prop as a spare with you along with the extra cotter keys that we all carry or should be carrying

,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links

Freedom77 · Sep 23, 2011

As I mentioned, Merc 4 was adequate, 7.5 longshaft was extra insurance and didn't weigh that much more. Three things to remember on any sailboat but especially smaler ones, weight, weight, weight and how you distribute it. Fair Winds and Full Sails....

Robspan · Sep 29, 2011

A few years ago, I bought a Mac 22 that had a 1976 Honda 8 hp four stroke. Neither the boat nor the motor had been used in years. The motor lasted a few months and then wouldn't start when I was heading back in from a sail. I brought it to a Honda dealership and was told that it probably died because of the ethanol in today's gasoline.

I sure don't claim to be an expert in this area, just passing on my experience. But I'd be careful about any old motors, especially now that the ethanol content may go up to 15%.

doehunter · Sep 29, 2011

Robspan said:
A few years ago, I bought a Mac 22 that had a 1976 Honda 8 hp four stroke. Neither the boat nor the motor had been used in years. The motor lasted a few months and then wouldn't start when I was heading back in from a sail. I brought it to a Honda dealership and was told that it probably died because of the ethanol in today's gasoline.

I sure don't claim to be an expert in this area, just passing on my experience. But I'd be careful about any old motors, especially now that the ethanol content may go up to 15%.

I had the same trouble when I 1st got my boat. I had to come in under that Kemah bridge, and make the turn to get to the public ramp under sail. It was hairy.
Since then I have learned how to take the carb off and clean it, pretty quick.
I have been told, the ethanol will cause flakes of some sort to be suspended in the gas. The flakes will clog up the low speed jets in a heartbeat. I now use fuel stabilizer and run the gas out of the carb when I get it home and flush it. Since then no trouble.
For a quick fix, there is a piece that screws into the top of the carb. There is a tiny hole in the end of it. Sometimes that's the culprit, and it can be removed and cleared out with a piece of wire, without pulling the carb. Good to know when your stuck on the water.
Jim