Outboard Install

[johnadenney]

I hate loath and detest the Volvo MD6A......    seriously though - I am of the old school that likes big simple engines and love to keep them running sweetly however... my darling MD6 was basically sound and would thunder away quite merrily for days on end.  It was built to last and was robust and simple.  The problem was all the gubbins that was attached to it!  Pumps various, alternator, dynostart, exhaust, cooling system, injectors etc etc etc...  after 40 years it is not surprising that all the peripherals failed with monotonous regularity.  Add to that the way the lump is shoehorned into the engine bay and repairs become a knuckle grazing battle of attrition.  Soul destroying!Spares are a real problem - Volvo do some stuff but boy do they charge a premium for them!  Having spent 12 hours motoring along the Portuguese coast I can safely say that the incessant thunder of a "good old MD6" will drive most people to leap overboard.  My engine was a major factor in making a voyage from Holyhead (UK) to Porto Santo a bit of a disaster.  I spent most of my time repairing it!   I think it would have been fine pottering about but I concluded that a good modern reliable engine adds tremendously to the enjoyment of sailing.  I would not hesitate to fit a beta or similar.  Outboards are fine but they get nicked and destroy vertebrae when lifting them and produce very little elrctickery so I would only use one on a dinghy. The Vega is such a nice little boat it deserves a nice little modern diesel. ps - my old vega (Cirrus) had a new Beta fitted by the new owner and I noticed that it sold on ebay for £3300!  Someone got a bargain......

 

[dougpol1]

WEll acoding to waht somebody here posted if it was under $10,000 it
was less than a new Bata. I had my starter reworked $30.00 with new
bushes from a Motor cycle starter generator replaced the the
impeller in the pump also $30.00 replaced both solenoids though the
old ones were still working and saved for an emergency. Replaced all
the wiring as the insulation was getting old. I will replace the
switches on the engine panel as I am sure its time. None of this
with Volvo pats. The fuel tank is under a cockpit seat now so no
primary fuel pump is needed. I doubt that I have spent $300 total.
It runs and I like it. Still I can see why another may not want to
fool with it. I also like 1940 fords and would rebuild the flat
head v-8 If I could. For me its to a degree a matter of some things
being neat and others not so much. Of course I like old wooden
sailboats too, but that's another story. Doug

On 11/20/2013 12:48 PM, groundhog
wrote:

 

[Vega1447]

Hi John.
I greatly admired the job that you had done on Cirrus when I met you in
Kinsale (Irish S Coast).

(Even copied your cockpit outlet for the 12 V auto bilge pump.)

As you say, with a new Beta for £3300, a bargain indeed.

All the best,

John V1447 Breakaway

 

[johnadenney]

Hi John, Hope you are well... If I had thought it would be so cheap I would have bid just to get my gear back!I trust your engine is running as sweet as a nut! I am looking for a new boat at the moment - the wish list include:modern reliable engine, standing headroom throughout, hot water, shower, fridge, permanent sunshine, moderate winds and a sea that does not go up and down twice a day. Not really bothered about seakindliness (whatever that is) or how thick the fibreglass is. Looks like its a floating caravan for me!John

 

[tiempo2010]

I have always been amazed that people who do work on their boats (as opposed to those that just write cheques) pay for an entire engine install. A friend just did this with a bill totaling about 20k for a new Beta 30, engine panel, shaft and prop and a new water heater. Installing an engine is not very difficult, mostly grunt work and not very complicated. Beta in particular will customize the mounts to fit existing engine beds for about $300 - money well spent if the beds are in good shape. Shafting on a 30' boat should not exceed $300 - 400. Add $500 for a propeller. Existing controls for shift and throttle can be used if in good condition - my friend used his older controls. After the engine is in hire an expert to align it which should only take a few hours for an experienced marine mechanic.
The water heater he had installed at the same time sells for about $250 and installation to replace existing involves 3 AC wires and 4 hose connections. I would bet the install labor on this alone was well over $500.
The price I have been quoted for a Beta 14 (in more expensive Canada) is $5600.

 

[reefmagnet]

To true Brian. When I did the Vega up I found the install of the new engine to be one of the easiest projects, even though it required building the engine beds. The caveat is you do definitely need to "measure twice, cut once" i.e. check and double check all dimensions and positions.
On the shaft alignment. The combination of great access (via the removed cockpit floor) and the "alignment bolt" included with the Betamarine package makes it very easy to align the engine with the assistance of a helper.

 

[newboldnoyes]

My cousin & I replaced my Volvo Penta with a Beta Marine 14, replacing the shaft & prop as well. We got the engine from the beta distributor in NC & a two blade folding prop from Denmark as I recall. We used the original cutlass bearing bored to take a new 1" shaft I got from the local machine shop.My cousin is good at this stuff & this work was part of a general refit, taking virtually all of a small pension that came to me when I turned 65. We replaced all the through hull fittings, the sanitation system, electrical system & panel, moved the batteries to the forward portion if the cockpit lockers & he welded together a supplementary 14 gall. stainless steel fuel tank that sits in the port locker as well, feeding into the original fuel tank in the keel, from which the new engine draws its fuel. The engine came in at around $6500, the exquisitely machined prop at around $1200 as I recall, the shaft at $300... The labor for that portion of the work & the shop costs added another $1000 - 2000 perhaps, but then we put in new engine controls, reworked the control panel & put in a new exhaust system. Say total, $12,000 - 15,000.We did a lot of other work as well, including replacing all the standing rigging, Allgripping the hull & deck... A roller furling jib system (a beautiful, used jib from Bacon Sails) as well as new sheets, halyards, etc, new GPS...I have daughters & grandchildren & the cousin & I felt that as I am taking them out on the water I better be damn sure the Vega is as reliable as possible, which she now is. I hope to take her south next fall, Florida, the Bahamas, Cuba. Oh my.... I will be looking into getting a new mainsail, perhaps a free footed, full battened sail & reworking the halyards to run into the cockpit so this 68 year old man doesn't have to go forward to drop the main, as well as putting in a jiffy reefing system down the road. Shore power connections, a better anchoring system to clear the fore deck, radar comparable with my GPS& a solar panel mounted on the stern...Self steering to supplement the auto helm we installed...I could have bought another boat with my pension, but I've had Penelope for 20 years she is as faithful a boat as I could wish for & has saved my bacon numerous times. This Vega is a tough & graceful creature, a rare combination in any being, sentient or not.The new engine is as reliable as the boat; my old engine was ok for a forty year old machine, but was slightly temperamental & underpowered & required more care than my daughters would be able to manage when & if I get too old to cruise & pass Ms P on. Douglas Pollard has acquired the prop & shaft, controls etc & will have the block & the rest of the heavy stuff when he can get from the Chesapeake to ME or I can get it down to him, to rebuild or reuse as needed.I seem to have lost my pix of this work, but the cousin has documentation, paper work & photos, I'll ask him to make some available. I think an outboard, while solving several problems, creates almost as many as it solves. When you really need an engine for more than motoring into a calm marina - when it is rough & dangerous & currents are pushing you ashore or whatever - you need to get out of a bad situation & you can't sail - you want an engine that can quickly drive your boat at speed with power in reserve. An outboard, unless you leave it set up, takes time you may not have to set up & start. If it is stored, it will take up almost as much room as the inboard & unless its pretty big it won't have enough power or a long enough shaft to dig in & get you & your boat & crew home safe, which is pretty much the goal of sailing, right?from myphone nn

 

[bonnerwhitman]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this topic. I may end up making the change, but I have an opportunity to test out both options for next year. A buddy has a 9HP ELS that I can borrow, so the only downside is doing the work to beef up the transom and adding a mount that I might someday remove. If there are huge downsides after next year, the diesel stays.But thanks much for everyone's thoughts. I really appreciate all the great points.BW

 

[n6ric]

Bonner,I, like you, decided to pull the diesel and go with an outboard. Pulling the Volvo turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be. I did it by myself. I'm now using that space for my batteries. There are a couple of advantages with an outboard. If you need them worked on, you don't have to destroy your cabin in the process. You can attach linkage to them to steer in conjunction with your rudder which is great at low speeds. When you're sailing you can pull the shaft and prop completely out of the water. I found an outboard mount with 15 inches of travel so you can get the prop low in the water. I don't think 6hp will be enough. I would go with Tohatsu's 9.9hp at the least. I'm going with their 15hp and the cost is still under $2k new. Outboards aren't as unreliable as they used to be. The added advantage is that you get rid of water intakes and exhaust systems subject to failure. I've got pictures on my website of pulling the engine. If you decide to go this route, don't hesitate to email me and ask questions. Good luck and fair winds...Rics/v Blue Max#2692www.ric-maxfield.net

 

[jbergman888]

Ric,Which outboard mount are you using. 15" is much more travel than the one I'm using.BruceS/v Cygnet#169To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: n6ric@...Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 19:17:03 -0800Subject: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install
Bonner,I, like you, decided to pull the diesel and go with an outboard. Pulling the Volvo turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be. I did it by myself. I'm now using that space for my batteries. There are a couple of advantages with an outboard. If you need them worked on, you don't have to destroy your cabin in the process. You can attach linkage to them to steer in conjunction with your rudder which is great at low speeds. When you're sailing you can pull the shaft and prop completely out of the water. I found an outboard mount with 15 inches of travel so you can get the prop low in the water. I don't think 6hp will be enough. I would go with Tohatsu's 9.9hp at the least. I'm going with their 15hp and the cost is still under $2k new. Outboards aren't as unreliable as they used to be. The added advantage is that you get rid of water intakes and exhaust systems subject to failure. I've got pictures on my website of pulling the engine. If you decide to go this route, don't hesitate to email me and ask questions. Good luck and fair winds...Rics/v Blue Max#2692www.ric-maxfield.net

 

[n6ric]

Bruce,The outboard mount is a Garelick 4 Stroke bracket for motors from 7 to 25hp and 15' of travel. It's a bit pricy at around $350.00, but then it will holding that new engine. Here's a link. Garelick 4 Stroke Outboard Motor Bracket 7-25 HP, 15" Travel Blue Max#2692www.ric-maxfield.net

 

[Trevykins]

Bonner - in a word or two - just don't! Trev V2915 (Mystic Rose) To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: n6ric@...Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2013 19:17:03 -0800Subject: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install 



Bonner,I, like you, decided to pull the diesel and go with an outboard.  Pulling the Volvo turned out to be much easier than I thought it would be.  I did it by myself.  I'm now using that space for my batteries.  There are a couple of advantages with an outboard.  If you need them worked on, you don't have to destroy your cabin in the process.  You can attach linkage to them to steer in conjunction with your rudder which is great at low speeds.  When you're sailing you can pull the shaft and prop completely out of the water.  I found an outboard mount with 15 inches of travel so you can get the prop low in the water.  I don't think 6hp will be enough.  I would go with Tohatsu's 9.9hp at the least.  I'm going with their 15hp and the cost is still under $2k new.  Outboards aren't as unreliable as they used to be.  The added advantage is that you get rid of water intakes and exhaust systems subject to failure.  I've got pictures on my website of pulling the engine.  If you decide to go this route, don't hesitate to email me and ask questions.  Good luck and fair winds...Rics/v Blue Max#2692www.ric-maxfield.net

 

[gurkin42]

Ok so the engine saga continues. To be honest my engine is fine starts first time with no problems. The (insert lots of swearing) combi on the other hand is being very difficult to say the least. It is stuck in reverse and nothing I am doing seems to work. So what are my options? I am considering a total re powering but it's very expensive for a new desiel inboard. I don't want an outboard although I have mounted an emergency bracket for situation where I might need to use the dinghies 2.5 hp. Has anyone changed the configuration of the MD7A and fitted a MS2 transmission reverting the system to what would be considered normal? And if so how difficult is that? Do I need a new raw water intake for the stuffing box? Anyway I shall be interested to see what knowledge is held in our group on this topic. Cheers John

 

[dougpol1]

John I would say that the combi is as simple a drive unit as there
is on boats considering the complexity of a marine transmition as a
comparison. I can't think of anything that could go wrong with it
that would warrent changing the engine for a new one. First you need
the manuals that are pretty much available on line free. IF you
are not mechanicly inclined and don't understand the system you may
want to get a machanic to work on it. About any Engine mechanic with
a manual can come to understand how it works even if he has never
seen one befor. I would look fo5r an older mechanic as he will
likely have seen enough mechanical drives to quickly understand how
yours works. I would only consider a new engine if yours is worn
out and a mechanic can tell you that. I would say that if your
engine starts easy or you can hand crank it most likely it is in
pretty good shape. There really isn't much there that a machanic
can figure out in a day and maybe another day to fix it. I would
think the repair would be less than $500 maybe way less. Even an
automobile mechanic should figure that unit out pretty quick if he
has a manual. I wish I were close by as I have that unit on my Vega
though I have never had to work on it I am sure I could takr ot
apart and repair it. There really are a very limited list of things
that could lock it up in reverse. I guess the worst would be if the
gears in the propellar could be br5oken if you have hit something
with the propeller. Propeller parts are hard to find. let me warn
you, most younger Diesel mechanics are trained by yanmar and the
onyl solution they have is to replace the whole thing with a new
yanmar.If you don't have manuals get them they are a must.
Doug


On 07/26/2015 06:58 AM,
beowulf@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

 

[stevebirch2002]

Hi John

The Combi is a very simple piece of equipment once
you know and understand how it works. Only pain is removing it as it is an art!
There are instructions available. If you email me I will send full instructions
as a PDF. Spares for the combi are pretty cheap apart from the actual metal
parts and these will have to be second hand. I have a few bits and bobs.
Complete refurb kit (Seals, bearings etc si available). Drop me an email on steve@...

Ad Doug will tell you the engine is great lump. If
you need parts for it then that may be a problem, many are not available and
those that are available are very, very expensive. If your MD6A needs lots of
bits then dump it.

I know of an MD6A that changed the Combi for an MS2
but has to be a particular version of the MS2 and was a huge job. If you cant do
it yourself then not worth the cost, hassle and time/effort.

All in my opinion.

Steve Birch
From: beowulf@...
[AlbinVega]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:58 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install


Ok so the engine saga continues. To be honest my engine is fine starts first
time with no problems. The (insert lots of swearing) combi on the other hand is
being very difficult to say the least. It is stuck in reverse and nothing I am
doing seems to work. So what are my options? I am considering a total re
powering but it's very expensive for a new desiel inboard. I don't want an
outboard although I have mounted an emergency bracket for situation where I
might need to use the dinghies 2.5 hp. Has anyone changed the configuration of
the MD7A and fitted a MS2 transmission reverting the system to what would be
considered normal? And if so how difficult is that? Do I need a new raw water
intake for the stuffing box? Anyway I shall be interested to see what knowledge
is held in our group on this topic. Cheers John








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[gurkin42]

Md7a

 

[dougpol1]

Steve, I tend to forget That I am a machinist with a lathe and years
of experience repairing and making things work. Most people don't
know that a set of Yamaha starter brushes will work in the Md6
starter. I am using a cheap chinese built starter cylinod , not a
great one but it works an I have a spare one on the boat. My
Alternator has a Motorolla voltage regulator on it and works a
charm. I have an alternator repair book and would not hesitate to
rebuild mine. in Most cased when an alternator goes bad it's a
diode burned out That is an item that likly costs less than $15.00.
I wouldn't hesitate to put a different Water pump on th engine. So
from my point of view if the basic engine still starts and runs on
both cylinders there is no need to replace it. Mine is over 40 years
old and I see no reason why it will not run for another 40. I like
the little engine Because I can crank to start her. I never have to
be concerned that my Batteries will run down and I won't be able to
start the engine and charge batteries.
What a comfortable feeling that is. It truly is a great lump but
for may the excessiveness create a problem that make keeping it more
trouble and cost than it's worth. Still most of the accessories,
are Bosh that are used in oriental made engines and can be bought
at cheaper prices. Yanmar uses Bosh type injectors and High pressure
pumps. Much of this can be made to work with a little research. I
suspect that a lot of this is done by Mechanics who put these
cheaper parts when they work on your engine. The parts in reality
are just as good so it doesn't matter. I had an izuzu diesel in a
boatthe numeber on cylinder was worn out. I bought standard over
size pistions and had the block rebored and I rebuilt. I then found
out I should have reboared for GM sleeves and bought Gm Pistons as
they would work fine in an Izuzu as Gm owned Izuzu and there was a
certain enter changeability there. With liners in place I could be
cheaply rebuilt for the next hundred years. I guess I am just
dictated to making these old engines last. WE have a lawn party in
the town I live in where engine enthusiasts bring hundreds of old
engine like the MD6 I love to go and see and watch them run. Some
run saws, planer mills all maner
machinery many were built in the early 1920 except for the steam
engines that are much, much older. WRITING THIS POST HAS BEEN
GREAT FUN. DOUG
On 07/26/2015 09:22 AM,
'steve@...' steve@... [AlbinVega] wrote.

 

[Vega1447]

Great post Doug.

I wish that you (or Steve) lived near my boat.

John V1447 Breakaway
________________________________________
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: 26 July 2015 18:30
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install

Steve, I tend to forget That I am a machinist with a lathe and years of experience repairing and making things work. Most people don't know that a set of Yamaha starter brushes will work in the Md6 starter. I am using a cheap chinese built starter cylinod , not a great one but it works an I have a spare one on the boat. My Alternator has a Motorolla voltage regulator on it and works a charm. I have an alternator repair book and would not hesitate to rebuild mine. in Most cased when an alternator goes bad it's a diode burned out That is an item that likly costs less than $15.00. I wouldn't hesitate to put a different Water pump on th engine. So from my point of view if the basic engine still starts and runs on both cylinders there is no need to replace it. Mine is over 40 years old and I see no reason why it will not run for another 40. I like the little engine Because I can crank to start her. I never have to be concerned that my Batteries will run down and I won't be able to start the engine and charge batteries.
What a comfortable feeling that is. It truly is a great lump but for may the excessiveness create a problem that make keeping it more trouble and cost than it's worth. Still most of the accessories, are Bosh that are used in oriental made engines and can be bought at cheaper prices. Yanmar uses Bosh type injectors and High pressure pumps. Much of this can be made to work with a little research. I suspect that a lot of this is done by Mechanics who put these cheaper parts when they work on your engine. The parts in reality are just as good so it doesn't matter. I had an izuzu diesel in a boatthe numeber on cylinder was worn out. I bought standard over size pistions and had the block rebored and I rebuilt. I then found out I should have reboared for GM sleeves and bought Gm Pistons as they would work fine in an Izuzu as Gm owned Izuzu and there was a certain enter changeability there. With liners in place I could be cheaply rebuilt for the next hundred years. I guess I am just dictated to making these old engines last. WE have a lawn party in the town I live in where engine enthusiasts bring hundreds of old engine like the MD6 I love to go and see and watch them run. Some run saws, planer mills all maner
machinery many were built in the early 1920 except for the steam engines that are much, much older. WRITING THIS POST HAS BEEN GREAT FUN. DOUG

On 07/26/2015 09:22 AM, 'steve@...mailto:steve@...' steve@...mailto:steve@... [AlbinVega] wrote.Hi John

The Combi is a very simple piece of equipment once you know and understand how it works. Only pain is removing it as it is an art! There are instructions available. If you email me I will send full instructions as a PDF. Spares for the combi are pretty cheap apart from the actual metal parts and these will have to be second hand. I have a few bits and bobs. Complete refurb kit (Seals, bearings etc si available). Drop me an email on steve@...mailto:steve@...

Ad Doug will tell you the engine is great lump. If you need parts for it then that may be a problem, many are not available and those that are available are very, very expensive. If your MD6A needs lots of bits then dump it.

I know of an MD6A that changed the Combi for an MS2 but has to be a particular version of the MS2 and was a huge job. If you cant do it yourself then not worth the cost, hassle and time/effort.

All in my opinion.

Steve Birch

From: beowulf@... [AlbinVega]mailto:beowulf@...%20[AlbinVega]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 11:58 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.commailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install
Ok so the engine saga continues. To be honest my engine is fine starts first time with no problems. The (insert lots of swearing) combi on the other hand is being very difficult to say the least. It is stuck in reverse and nothing I am doing seems to work. So what are my options? I am considering a total re powering but it's very expensive for a new desiel inboard. I don't want an outboard although I have mounted an emergency bracket for situation where I might need to use the dinghies 2.5 hp. Has anyone changed the configuration of the MD7A and fitted a MS2 transmission reverting the system to what would be considered normal? And if so how difficult is that? Do I need a new raw water intake for the stuffing box? Anyway I shall be interested to see what knowledge is held in our group on this topic. Cheers John________________________________
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[gurkin42]

This is all very cool stuff and I encourage everyone who has an idea on how to fix my specific problem to email me at beowulf@... I really don't have a serious opinion one way or the other about utilizing parts to make things work. I just installed a new Jebasco water pump which I had to fiddle with to make it work. I am still a little bit in the dark about the combi and how it is supposed to work. I would certainly prefer to repair the existing gear than purchase something new as there are lots of better places to put my money.

 

[stevebirch2002]

Great post and fully agree. We aint all machinist
with engineering brains though! 10 years ago I had a couple of MD6As rebuilt
using available pistons etc that he modified. They worked for a while but never
the same as the original. Beowulf - The MD7A is just a bored out version of the
MD6A giving 13hp instead of q0hp

Wish I had your skills Doug..

Steve B
From: Douglas Pollard dougpol2@...
[AlbinVega]
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2015 6:30 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] RE: Outboard Install


Steve, I tend to forget That I am a machinist with a lathe and years of
experience repairing and making things work. Most people don't know that a set
of Yamaha starter brushes will work in the Md6 starter. I am using a cheap
chinese built starter cylinod , not a great one but it works an I have a spare
one on the boat. My Alternator has a Motorolla voltage regulator on it and
works a charm. I have an alternator repair book and would not hesitate to
rebuild mine. in Most cased when an alternator goes bad it's a diode
burned out That is an item that likly costs less than $15.00. I wouldn't
hesitate to put a different Water pump on th engine. So from my point of view if
the basic engine still starts and runs on both cylinders there is no need to
replace it. Mine is over 40 years old and I see no reason why it will not run
for another 40. I like the little engine Because I can crank to start
her. I never have to be concerned that my Batteries will run down and I won't be
able to start the engine and charge batteries.What a comfortable feeling
that is. It truly is a great lump but for may the excessiveness create a
problem that make keeping it more trouble and cost than it's worth. Still
most of the accessories, are Bosh that are used in oriental made
engines and can be bought at cheaper prices. Yanmar uses Bosh type injectors and
High pressure pumps. Much of this can be made to work with a little
research. I suspect that a lot of this is done by Mechanics who put these
cheaper parts when they work on your engine. The parts in reality are just
as good so it doesn't matter. I had an izuzu diesel in a boatthe numeber
on cylinder was worn out. I bought standard over size pistions and had the block
rebored and I rebuilt. I then found out I should have reboared for GM sleeves
and bought Gm Pistons as they would work fine in an Izuzu as Gm owned Izuzu and
there was a certain enter changeability there. With liners in place I could be
cheaply rebuilt for the next hundred years. I guess I am just dictated to
making these old engines last. WE have a lawn party in the town I live in
where engine enthusiasts bring hundreds of old engine like the MD6 I love to go
and see and watch them run. Some run saws, planer mills all maner
machinery many were built in the early 1920 except for the steam
engines that are much, much older. WRITING THIS POST HAS BEEN GREAT
FUN. DOUG
On 07/26/2015 09:22 AM, 'steve@...' steve@... [AlbinVega] wrote.