I have a wonderful sailboat a 1979 Macgregor Venture 25. I have enjoyed sailing her buthe outboard engine has been a bit unreliable and at times a downright pain in the butt =). I am thinking of a new engine and I am hoping some of you will share your exteriences. In a perfect world I would have a outboard that had a push button start and t would start reliably every time. I currently have a 1979 9.9 Johnson it moves the boat fine when it starts but I am frustrated with engine problems ending a beautiful day of sailing.
Outboard engine questions
- Thread starter Carolyn1964
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Carolyn: a new 6-8 hp engine would answer your needs. You will have to buy a four stroke since they don't make small two stroke engines anymore. You can get by with a little less horsepower with a four stroke because they generate more torque than their equivalent two stroke. A couple of caveats: get the longest shaft engine you can find. Most manufacturers consider a 20" shaft to be their "long shaft" model. A couple of them offer a 25" extra long shaft. For my money, the extra long shaft is the way to go.
Also, be careful with the mounting bracket. Most brackets are not rated to handle four stroke engines. If your 1979 boat still has its original bracket, you can be sure it is not rated to handle a four stroke. There are two reasons why four strokes need the stronger brackets: four strokes tend to weigh more, and generate more torque than their two stroke hp equivalents. Once you commit to changing the bracket, you bring up a number of potential issues, such as: the footprint of the two stroke bracket is almost certainly smaller than for a four stroke bracket. This may mean you will need to change/augment the existing mounting pad (that angled block of fiberglass between the transom and the engine bracket), and potentially drill new mounting holes in the transom. Nothing unsurmountable, but a pain nonetheless.
For my boat (an Oday 23), I replaced an early '80's model Johnson 9.9 with electric start in 2002 with a two stroke Nissan 8 hp electric start model. I went with a two stroke over the four stroke for a couple of reasons: a four stroke would have required me to replace the engine bracket and mounting pad. I had just replaced the mounting bracket the year before and didn't want to have that investment go to waste, and I had rebuilt the old mounting pad at the same time. Perhaps more importantly, the Admiral weighed in on the side of a two stroke; she thought the four stroke would be too heavy for her to tilt up or down.
Since then, the industry has stopped making small two stroke engines, and the weight of four strokes has come down considerably. Can you get away with using a four stroke on a bracket rated only to handle a two stroke? You will find that question debated multiple times on this site. I don't think there is a clear answer, although my hunch is that a new bracket rated to handle a 20 hp two stroke should be sufficiently robust to handle an 8 hp four stroke. But I'm not an engineer.
Also, be careful with the mounting bracket. Most brackets are not rated to handle four stroke engines. If your 1979 boat still has its original bracket, you can be sure it is not rated to handle a four stroke. There are two reasons why four strokes need the stronger brackets: four strokes tend to weigh more, and generate more torque than their two stroke hp equivalents. Once you commit to changing the bracket, you bring up a number of potential issues, such as: the footprint of the two stroke bracket is almost certainly smaller than for a four stroke bracket. This may mean you will need to change/augment the existing mounting pad (that angled block of fiberglass between the transom and the engine bracket), and potentially drill new mounting holes in the transom. Nothing unsurmountable, but a pain nonetheless.
For my boat (an Oday 23), I replaced an early '80's model Johnson 9.9 with electric start in 2002 with a two stroke Nissan 8 hp electric start model. I went with a two stroke over the four stroke for a couple of reasons: a four stroke would have required me to replace the engine bracket and mounting pad. I had just replaced the mounting bracket the year before and didn't want to have that investment go to waste, and I had rebuilt the old mounting pad at the same time. Perhaps more importantly, the Admiral weighed in on the side of a two stroke; she thought the four stroke would be too heavy for her to tilt up or down.
Since then, the industry has stopped making small two stroke engines, and the weight of four strokes has come down considerably. Can you get away with using a four stroke on a bracket rated only to handle a two stroke? You will find that question debated multiple times on this site. I don't think there is a clear answer, although my hunch is that a new bracket rated to handle a 20 hp two stroke should be sufficiently robust to handle an 8 hp four stroke. But I'm not an engineer.
Practical Sailor has done several reviews on outboards. I'd check out their website and get a copy of the most current review. Tip: the Johnson 9.9 gets the highest marks, but you'd be happy with most of the engines tested.
All things being equal, I'd go for the engine with the longest shaft.
Go to: http://www.practical-sailor.com/
All things being equal, I'd go for the engine with the longest shaft.
Go to: http://www.practical-sailor.com/
Try getting a good mech to analyze your problem.I,too, had troubles with an older OB but some simple maintenence and it runs like new.Make sure the mech does a compression check right off to dtermine if the motor is just worn out or needing major rebuild.
I have a Johnson 15hp and have had similiar problems especially with low speen stalling. The new fuel E10 the ethenol additive is a hugh problem for small engines. This gas deteriates quickly so keep your fuel fresh. The jury is still out on additives. I have cut the oil mix slightly and this has helped solve the low speen stalling. She also now starts fine.
Carolyn, I'm partial to Hondas. We just picked up a 9.9 hp with electric start this spring. My wife couldn't pull start our old honda 8 so we upgraded. It's been a nice clean quiet efficient motor so far. The 12 amp alternator is nice too. For your boat you could go with the 8 HP with electric start (you may even be able to get electric tilt on the 8 and remote controls).
Manny
Manny
engine upgrade...
we have a Mac 26D... opted for Nissan 25", 9.9hp, electric start motor (ie, battery charger too.....). Purchased it today (finally!!!) and will have it next week...
the 2009 models are dropping off - and the 2010 models are incoming.. so we got another $25 off the '09 model - and it's about 200-300 less than the '10 models...
This will be my 3rd Tohatsu/Nissan. they suit me....
--jr
we have a Mac 26D... opted for Nissan 25", 9.9hp, electric start motor (ie, battery charger too.....). Purchased it today (finally!!!) and will have it next week...
the 2009 models are dropping off - and the 2010 models are incoming.. so we got another $25 off the '09 model - and it's about 200-300 less than the '10 models...
This will be my 3rd Tohatsu/Nissan. they suit me....
--jr
The #1 issue with old outboards on sailboats is that too many owners use old gas. The #2 sin is to skip routine maintenance because the motors are used so infrequently.
1979 is kind of old, I guess. Unless you already know it's toast, I would still recommend having it overhauled, then buy it the best gas available and give it a chance. We have an '83 Suzuki 5 HP that came with our boat, and it's a rockstar, starting first or 2nd pull, and running very smooth.
1979 is kind of old, I guess. Unless you already know it's toast, I would still recommend having it overhauled, then buy it the best gas available and give it a chance. We have an '83 Suzuki 5 HP that came with our boat, and it's a rockstar, starting first or 2nd pull, and running very smooth.
How about cleaning and perhaps rebuilding the carb? I did one and it took five minutes. Just be careful not to crush the jets. Count the number of turns it takes to remove them or mark the interface of the jet to the body with an indelible marker of some sort. I wasted a carb by crushing a jet...second time was easy. After that no more problems. Started first pull every time. Also, check the fuel pump diaphragm and screen on the side of the engine and change your plug (be sure to gap the new one properly).
I have had the engine serviced and changed the tank ( there was a potentilal small air leak and hey it was cheap) and the fule line. All the connectors are new this year and I have used fresh gas and new oil. It may be that the engine is just old and an't idle low. Thansk for all the advice. I am thinking I should just take the mechanic sailing with us =)
Carolyn
honda is a great motor...9.9 pull starts effortlessly if you don;t want electric start..2 cycle does have a tendency to have some carb issues if not stored right because of the oil residue affecting pilot and main orifices
Thank goodness,another voice of reason.I was beginning to think I was the only one reading this that can't wait to run out and drop a grand or two for a new motor.
I have an '83 7.5 Honda 4-stroke that runs good as new. Not to say it hasn't had its moments, but so far these have been easily remedied. GOOD gas and carb care.
I have an '83 7.5 Honda 4-stroke that runs good as new. Not to say it hasn't had its moments, but so far these have been easily remedied. GOOD gas and carb care.
Thanks fr the inout from everyone. The engine was a no starter this weekend so we sailed away from the dock and back to it... well this is one way to practice skills. I am going to carefully look at the carb and see if that is the source of the problems. Hopefully I can get the engine to work as well as the boat. Sailing was terrific even if the engine was a no starter.
I have fallen in and out of love with my old Honda BF100. Having the carb cleaned makes a worlld of difference. The mechanic told me that if I am going to leave if for more than a few days to unplug the gas line and run the carb dry. When I told him I had heard this about 2 stokes, he told me that it is even more important on a 4 stroke because the jets are much smaller and plug more easily.
If you can afford it, that electric start sounds awfully nice.
If you can afford it, that electric start sounds awfully nice.
Sorry to hear that, Carolyn.. I am a registered gear and motor head .. my two outboards are Johnson two strokes, one a 4 hp, 1981 model and my latest buy for more speed in the dink is a 1967 6 hp Johnson two stroke.. both start by the third pull, but I am very careful with clearing out the carbs when I use either one. They are dink motors so they get used very seldom (boat is in a slip) and they actually live indoors at home 99% of the time.
hi guys,
all great advice, i have a 1999 15 johnson, works like a charm, starts great, my only issue is the damn thing has no thrust in reverse, changed the bracket, it sits plenty low in the water, is a long shaft as well, but no reverse thrust, anyone ever have this problem
thanks
wade
all great advice, i have a 1999 15 johnson, works like a charm, starts great, my only issue is the damn thing has no thrust in reverse, changed the bracket, it sits plenty low in the water, is a long shaft as well, but no reverse thrust, anyone ever have this problem
thanks
wade
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