Was on the British based site www.ybw.com and the discussion group there really let Luhrs Marine have it for not giving the 356 stability curves for Yacthing Monthly Magazine. This was the first time they did weren't able to print them. There is also considerable discussion about the question of whether the boat is CE "A" rated or really CE "B" and if it is whether it should be. There are 2 threads http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/new/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=198223&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1#Post198223 and http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/new/forums/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=195673&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1#Post195673
- Status
bashing
Since when have the brits known anything about sailing, they are still angry about being asked to leave the colonies,
Since when have the brits known anything about sailing, they are still angry about being asked to leave the colonies,
Mike, you might wanna rethink that response 
Granted, a couple of snobs were a bit harsh in their criticism of Luhrs Group hull designs...but "Since when have the Brits known anything about sailing???" Methinks you need to bone up on your world history AND the history of sailing....the Brits have been a nation of seafarers for at least a thousand years. The British navy ruled the world for centuries, redesigning ships as needed to defeat other navies (including the Spanish Armada). They built the first schooners and clippers and sailed 'em all over the world to bring back everything from silk and cotton to spices (not to mention rum, tobacco) and almost all the great pirates were British. They practically invented ocean racing with the Whitbread and Fastnet...and the America's Cup began as a challenge race (see link)... Sailing is imprinted in the British genetic code!
Granted, a couple of snobs were a bit harsh in their criticism of Luhrs Group hull designs...but "Since when have the Brits known anything about sailing???" Methinks you need to bone up on your world history AND the history of sailing....the Brits have been a nation of seafarers for at least a thousand years. The British navy ruled the world for centuries, redesigning ships as needed to defeat other navies (including the Spanish Armada). They built the first schooners and clippers and sailed 'em all over the world to bring back everything from silk and cotton to spices (not to mention rum, tobacco) and almost all the great pirates were British. They practically invented ocean racing with the Whitbread and Fastnet...and the America's Cup began as a challenge race (see link)... Sailing is imprinted in the British genetic code!
Ouch....thanks Peggy
Well...I am a Brit, have doen a bit of sailing but am about to buy my first 'big' boat and it will be a 'Legend' (as the hunter is called over here) 356. Yes I ordered the boat AFTER the review and yes I DID read it. Luhrs have shot themselves in the foot by not giving the figures which EVERY other boat review in this mag has always been printed with! The figures ARE coming out..in the next month Luhrs replied with some of the stability figures. They are not the worst and some of us Brits think the 356 is a great boat. A lot of the argument is over the A category the boat has been given. I for one do not intend an Atlantic crossing with my 356 but for coastal and offshore sailing I am more than happy. How many times have you crossed the pond in a Hunter Mike?? And I STILL think this is a great site despite Mike's comments)) Colin.
Well...I am a Brit, have doen a bit of sailing but am about to buy my first 'big' boat and it will be a 'Legend' (as the hunter is called over here) 356. Yes I ordered the boat AFTER the review and yes I DID read it. Luhrs have shot themselves in the foot by not giving the figures which EVERY other boat review in this mag has always been printed with! The figures ARE coming out..in the next month Luhrs replied with some of the stability figures. They are not the worst and some of us Brits think the 356 is a great boat. A lot of the argument is over the A category the boat has been given. I for one do not intend an Atlantic crossing with my 356 but for coastal and offshore sailing I am more than happy. How many times have you crossed the pond in a Hunter Mike?? And I STILL think this is a great site despite Mike's comments
)) Colin.Don't be too hard on Mike, Colin
We ALL "step in it" once in a while. Mike just must have slept through all his history classes!) Btw...SINCERE condolences on the loss of your beloved Queen Mum. She's truly irreplaceable.
We ALL "step in it" once in a while. Mike just must have slept through all his history classes!
) Btw...SINCERE condolences on the loss of your beloved Queen Mum. She's truly irreplaceable.
European Reviews More Detailed
The boat reviews I've read in some of the major European magazines (British and German yachting magazines) tend to be much more detailed than our American counterparts. Consequently, I not surprised at their desire for more detailed technical information, that is, something a wee bit more than eye-wash that we've come to expect and accept from our publications.
The boat reviews I've read in some of the major European magazines (British and German yachting magazines) tend to be much more detailed than our American counterparts. Consequently, I not surprised at their desire for more detailed technical information, that is, something a wee bit more than eye-wash that we've come to expect and accept from our publications.
Sorry Mike, But I've got to agree. Add something
relevant, maybe humorous, but not an un-thought out statement. It'll smack your fanny everytime. My wife taught me all about these welt producers. Ray S/V Speedy
relevant, maybe humorous, but not an un-thought out statement. It'll smack your fanny everytime. My wife taught me all about these welt producers. Ray S/V Speedy
British
the reply about british saililng was an attempt at humor, we all know the history of Britian thought that would have been obvioius, obvioulsy not, , MIke
the reply about british saililng was an attempt at humor, we all know the history of Britian thought that would have been obvioius, obvioulsy not, , MIke
Mike, it's a law of nature:
When it's your turn in the barrel, it's your turn...it doesn't matter if what put you there should have been obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature, it's your turn in the barrel, and that's where you're going! Been there myself...MANY times...
When it's your turn in the barrel, it's your turn...it doesn't matter if what put you there should have been obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than room temperature, it's your turn in the barrel, and that's where you're going! Been there myself...MANY times...
What ever happened to peoples sense of humor??
Ya know, I read this forum every day and really enjoy the people I meet and the things I read. We all have opinions, some wrong, some right, some on target, some off target. I take sailing seriously, but, never cease laughing at myself and my friends (there are more bloopers created in sailing than any place in the world, ever tried to show off a perfect jibe in front of a tour boat and doin a 360?????) People, especially the ever dwindling number of sailors need to look at our small world with a sense of humor. If we serious ourselves out of the sport (new phrase I created for this instance) we will discourage newbies everywhere from joining us on the water. So, Mike I did think your flippant comment had humor and I appreciate it if the next time ya see me do a 360 jibe you laugh and meet me at the dock for a cup o' tea.. All the best.....Denny P. sailin bote Mostly There.....
Ya know, I read this forum every day and really enjoy the people I meet and the things I read. We all have opinions, some wrong, some right, some on target, some off target. I take sailing seriously, but, never cease laughing at myself and my friends (there are more bloopers created in sailing than any place in the world, ever tried to show off a perfect jibe in front of a tour boat and doin a 360?????) People, especially the ever dwindling number of sailors need to look at our small world with a sense of humor. If we serious ourselves out of the sport (new phrase I created for this instance) we will discourage newbies everywhere from joining us on the water. So, Mike I did think your flippant comment had humor and I appreciate it if the next time ya see me do a 360 jibe you laugh and meet me at the dock for a cup o' tea.. All the best.....Denny P. sailin bote Mostly There.....
Hey, Denny...
Ever DWINDLING numbers of sailors??? Or was that another humorous comment? (Keep it up, Peg, and YOU'RE gonna end up in the barrel before it's over!)
Ever DWINDLING numbers of sailors??? Or was that another humorous comment? (Keep it up, Peg, and YOU'RE gonna end up in the barrel before it's over!)
My Mom is British....
....and I never let her forget about loosing the Colonies! Of course, with her dry British humour (English spelling) and stiff upper lip, she never fails to chuckle at that perceived loss. She would NEVER take offense, or at least she wouldn't show it! Anyway, not to we poor, benighted Colonials. And, the old girl is not a bad sailor either, by the way. (Did I just say that?)
....and I never let her forget about loosing the Colonies! Of course, with her dry British humour (English spelling) and stiff upper lip, she never fails to chuckle at that perceived loss. She would NEVER take offense, or at least she wouldn't show it! Anyway, not to we poor, benighted Colonials. And, the old girl is not a bad sailor either, by the way. (Did I just say that?)
Well, If ya can believe the stats????
It seems that sailboat sales are down, new ones for sure, but, you do not always get good stats on used boats as no one keeps track of private sales.. Some of us "baby boomers" are gettin to olde (excuse the olde english, my lineage is english) to haul up the sails and are getting into trawlers or power boats. The generation Xers are too lazy on the most part to pull a line unless they have computer aids or can do video games while on the water, so yes, if someone doesnt do something about it (the arabs might be doin it now with another oil embargo) sailors like us may just fade into the past. If we have another real deep depression because of oil shortages we might just experience another loss of 50-65 percent of the production boat builders like we did in the eighties because of the increased price of the liquid/oil/plastic that our beloved blo-botes are made of!...All the best.......Denny P.
It seems that sailboat sales are down, new ones for sure, but, you do not always get good stats on used boats as no one keeps track of private sales.. Some of us "baby boomers" are gettin to olde (excuse the olde english, my lineage is english) to haul up the sails and are getting into trawlers or power boats. The generation Xers are too lazy on the most part to pull a line unless they have computer aids or can do video games while on the water, so yes, if someone doesnt do something about it (the arabs might be doin it now with another oil embargo) sailors like us may just fade into the past. If we have another real deep depression because of oil shortages we might just experience another loss of 50-65 percent of the production boat builders like we did in the eighties because of the increased price of the liquid/oil/plastic that our beloved blo-botes are made of!...All the best.......Denny P.
ALL new boat sales fell out of bed when
the stock market did last year--ALL luxury item sales suffer when the economy goes wobbly...but for several years up to that, the market for new sailboats, especially big ones, was booming...while the market for new powerboats was flat. More first-time boat buyers were buying 30'+ sailboats than were buying powerboats...'cuz to those Gen-Xers you mentioned--the ones who don't really want a BOAT, they want a floating condo--sailboats are "cooler." The stats for used boat sales are more reliable than you think, 'cuz even private sales require transfer of documentation and/or state registration, and both the CG tracks 'em. According to NMMA, used boat sales accounted for 67% of total boat sales, a number that has steadily increased and is expected to continue to increase. And if fuel prices continue to rise, more and more buyers of both new AND used boats are likely pick sail over power. The well-managed and well-capitalized boatbuilders will manage to stay in business, although--as has happened in the past--more of the smaller ones will be gobbled up by the conglomerates like Brunswick and Genmar. The rest WILL go under...the laws of natural selection--"survival of fittest" don't only apply to nature. So never fear, Denny...the market for new sailboats may wax and wane (along the market for every other luxury item) with the tide of the economy...but sailors aren't likely to become an endangered species any time soon.
the stock market did last year--ALL luxury item sales suffer when the economy goes wobbly...but for several years up to that, the market for new sailboats, especially big ones, was booming...while the market for new powerboats was flat. More first-time boat buyers were buying 30'+ sailboats than were buying powerboats...'cuz to those Gen-Xers you mentioned--the ones who don't really want a BOAT, they want a floating condo--sailboats are "cooler." The stats for used boat sales are more reliable than you think, 'cuz even private sales require transfer of documentation and/or state registration, and both the CG tracks 'em. According to NMMA, used boat sales accounted for 67% of total boat sales, a number that has steadily increased and is expected to continue to increase. And if fuel prices continue to rise, more and more buyers of both new AND used boats are likely pick sail over power. The well-managed and well-capitalized boatbuilders will manage to stay in business, although--as has happened in the past--more of the smaller ones will be gobbled up by the conglomerates like Brunswick and Genmar. The rest WILL go under...the laws of natural selection--"survival of fittest" don't only apply to nature. So never fear, Denny...the market for new sailboats may wax and wane (along the market for every other luxury item) with the tide of the economy...but sailors aren't likely to become an endangered species any time soon.
A new sailor's viewpoint.
New to the sport, I've been visiting this site for about a month now. My wife and I are "Boomers" who purchased the beach house and now are shopping for our first boat. I've known many boaters for years and I'll say one thing. I really enjoy the sailing "community". I appreciate your intelligence, your comraderie, your respect for one another, and of course, your sense of humor. We're happy to be a part of it all.
New to the sport, I've been visiting this site for about a month now. My wife and I are "Boomers" who purchased the beach house and now are shopping for our first boat. I've known many boaters for years and I'll say one thing. I really enjoy the sailing "community". I appreciate your intelligence, your comraderie, your respect for one another, and of course, your sense of humor. We're happy to be a part of it all.
It;s not that Gen X is lazy...
The reason they don't buy new sail boat(or boats of any kind) is they can't afford it. I'm the only person I know in their 30's that owns a boat (yes it's a sailboat). Between having huge mortgage payments, low salaries and new families, buying a new boat would require a lottery win. We're not lazy, we're just exhausted from cleaning up the mess the boomers are leaving behind them. Paul 1974 Catalina 27
The reason they don't buy new sail boat(or boats of any kind) is they can't afford it. I'm the only person I know in their 30's that owns a boat (yes it's a sailboat). Between having huge mortgage payments, low salaries and new families, buying a new boat would require a lottery win. We're not lazy, we're just exhausted from cleaning up the mess the boomers are leaving behind them.
Paul 1974 Catalina 27A nod to GenX'ers
Actually, my sense is that there are way more young people out cruising than when we Boomers started to cruise. They have made some money, and aren't waiting around to retire, like many others. The ones coming through Mexico sail all types of boats, depending on their resources, from big and complex to small and simple. And, the GenX'ers are usually the ones who are helping the Boomers to sort out all their way-too-complex navigation, communication, and electronic systems. They also sort out our email problems, so thanks go to them. I just wish I had started out earlier!
Actually, my sense is that there are way more young people out cruising than when we Boomers started to cruise. They have made some money, and aren't waiting around to retire, like many others. The ones coming through Mexico sail all types of boats, depending on their resources, from big and complex to small and simple. And, the GenX'ers are usually the ones who are helping the Boomers to sort out all their way-too-complex navigation, communication, and electronic systems. They also sort out our email problems, so thanks go to them. I just wish I had started out earlier!
Now wait a dogone minute
Isn't it just like a Canadian to talk about cleaning up!!!!!!!!!.. Anne Murray sing us a song. All the best.....Denny P.
Isn't it just like a Canadian to talk about cleaning up!!!!!!!!!.. Anne Murray sing us a song.
All the best.....Denny P.- Status