Original cabin heat/air system for 2007 Hunter 45cc?

[SV_Gonromin]

We recently purchased this boat and the surveyor was very excited that the boat has all the ductwork and vents for heat and air (but not through-hulls); however, the Previous (original) Owner chose not to get the standard system, presumably because it's not really needed in SF Bay Area. Our plan is to cruise the BC coast for a couple of years, and we know we'll need cabin heat on the hook (and quite possibly air-con too). It appears that the boat was designed for a forward heater for the salon and v-berth, and a separate heater for the aft cabin. We've pored through the manuals and can't find anything about what factory original equipment was spec'd for it. Does anyone know what was offered on similar models? And if so:

• do you have it?
• can you recommend it?
• if it's no longer available (15 years later, after all) can you recommend any good options that would work with the installed ductwork/plumbing?

I've searched the forums for "cabin heat" and have seen several mentions of Espar, Wallas, and others. I've also seen many discussions of reverse-cycle units, pros and cons, which lapse into HVAC jargon that goes over my head (but not Other Half's).

Thanks in advance...

 

[BobH57]

My '99 H410 had a 16k BTU reverse cycle AC unit for the main salon and forward berth (located under port settee), plus a 7k unit for the aft cabin that was located behind the aft bulkhead. They were Marine Air, and likely original to the boat. Both have died since I bought the boat in 2018, and have been replaced with Dometic 16k and 6k retro-fit units which are working well and fit in the available space. You might also want to consider a forced-air diesel heater due to your northern sailing area.

 

[Terry Cox]

• do you have it?
• can you recommend it?
• if it's no longer available (15 years later, after all) can you recommend any good options that would work with the installed ductwork/plumbing?

Our 1991 boat came equipped with dual MarineAir reverse cycle heat pumps for cooling and heating, but requires 120 volts AC to operate, which means we either run our 8KW Genset or be connected to shore power. We prefer anchoring out when we cruise year around the PNW, so during the colder times of the year I self installed a Wallas 40D forced air furnace to keep the crew warm.That was in 2006 and it has worked out well for us. Quiet, efficient and very effective.

The four inch heat pump duct work is mostly on the starboard side of the boat, but the Wallas furnace uses three inch ducts, so I installed those on the port side. Was not that difficult and I wrote an article about the project here. Hunter 42 Owner Modifications and Upgrades

We rarely use the heat pumps while away from our slip, but they do come in handy while there, or when visiting a marina that has shore power available. In all the years cruising these waters, we've never had a need to use the cooling side of the heat pumps; just never gets that warm here. Likely, your boat spec called for MarineAir as well. Main/forward cabin 16K BTU, aft cabin 9K BTU. This system will require a below the water line through hull, sea water strainer, sea water pump and plumbing/electrical connections, plus two above the water line discharge through hulls. Then of course if you want to operate the system away from shore power, you will need a Genset. Our boat came equipped with an 8KW Cummins Onan diesel generator, which works great for keeping the battery banks charged while cruising. All of this will require many boat bucks.

 

[SV_Gonromin]

All of this will require many boat bucks.

Are there any boat bucks that aren't "many"?

Thanks for the detailed response - lots to think about there.

 

[MFD]

My understanding is that up here in the Pacific Northwest that heat pumps may not be particularly efficient because of the low water temperatures. Probably okay for most of our high-30s/low-40s at night, but I very much doubt they would be able to keep up when we get the couple times a winter snow/ice way below freezing temps? I guess ducking into a marina then would be appropriate as well anyway?

There is an outfit here in Seattle that is well known for marine heating systems and would definitely have the 'local knowledge' about how effective heat pumps might be with the water temps here. The advantage of also having air conditioning when you are down South would be a bonus for sure, and you already have the generator. You may want to give them a call and have a quick chat?

Welcome - Sure Marine Service Inc

www.suremarineservice.com

 

[jssailem]

As @Terry Cox and @MFD have identified, the waters you plan to sail (like the PacificNW), are a priority to consider when considering the heat/cooling needs of the boat and crew.

Here in the PacificNW water temps hover in the range of 44-52 degrees F (7.4 to 11.7 C). A few days in Summer it might be nice to have AC, in winter a heat pump will not be enough.

I find fans and open cabin hatches can maintain cabin temps that are bearable. If it gets necessary there is always a dip in the water. Having sailed during the winter, there is the need for auxiliary heat. Boats lack adequate insulation. Generator noise can be oppressive. The options are forced air or hydronic heat. I self installed a Wallas heater, sourced at Scan Marine in Seattle.

Wallas Heaters - Wallas Marine and RV Heaters | Stoves | Cooking Equipment | ScanMarineUSA.com

Wallas Heaters Wallas marine diesel and kerosene heaters, available in a variety of sizes, represent the finest in small vessel heating systems. These heaters c

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It is great tool that heats my boat to 65-70 degrees using diesel and minimal load on the batteries. Like Terry’s heater it is a 40DT. You need to get adequate BTU’s out of your system.

Sure Marine carries the several heat solutions that are used on pleasure craft by Pacific NW boat owners. I spent 18 days on the water one February in a boat heated by a heater from Sure Marine. It ran flawlessly during one of the brutalist winters on record for BC.

Being able to get to a Marina is an alternative which allows a boater to employ Electrical space heaters to maintain a comfortable cabin.

9 months of the year one can get by bundling in fleece and winter sleeping bags.

There is a reason you’ll find many people living near the water in tropical climates. It is just easier to survive.

 

[Terry Cox]

Probably okay for most of our high-30s/low-40s at night, but I very much doubt they would be able to keep up when we get the couple times a winter snow/ice way below freezing temps?

In my general observation cruising over the years, PNW water temps remain pretty moderate throughout the year due to the moderate temps of the Pacific Ocean. Even during an occasional extended cold snap our waters remain a pretty constant 48-52 degrees and remain there even during the summer months. It will differ where shallow waters in some bays get minimal tidal flow, but overall pretty constant.

In all the years we've operated our heat pumps during the coldest winter months, they will produce a good volume of heat to warm the boat. We normally run one at a time while in a slip; no need to run both. Unlike the upper eastern states where sea water will freeze deeply, not so here. At most, even with temps in the low teens for several days, we'll only see a thin sheet of ice on the surface of a marina, but deeper will still have moderate water temps due to Pacific Ocean tidal flows.

 

[SV_Gonromin]

deeper will still have moderate water temps due to Pacific Ocean tidal flows.

I can attest to that. Years ago, when scuba-diving in Active Pass one December, the air temp at surface was 28F; the water temp at surface was 38F, and at 50' depth it was 48F. Visible thermocline at about the 45' mark!

 

[SV_Gonromin]

Thank you, @Terry Cox, @MFD, @jssailem, @BobH57 for all your thoughts and suggestions. We intend to overwinter 2023-24 in a marina somewhere between Everett and Comox (depending on when we get there) to take advantage of shore power and other amenities, and most likely in Prince Rupert the following winter. Plans are necessarily quite fluid right now.
PO was using a Dyson heater in the cabin for the occasional chilly days on the Bay, but it takes up floor-space and uses a lot of electricity. On the other hand, it might tide us over until we get to Seattle and can take advantage of local knowledge to install (or get installed) something there.
Again, thank you all for your feedback. We have lots to think about now!

 

[Bogart]

We own a 2007 Hunter 45CC, which we bought in 2016. It has two reverse cycle units installed, one above the engine which services the aft cabin and the galley & chart table area, the other installed forward under the starboard settee which services the forward section of the saloon and the V-berth. Attached is a photo of the manual suppled by the previous owner.

We mainly sail on the east coast of Australia so nothing like the temps you will experience in the Pacific NW. We do however have a need to get cool more often. We tend to only operate the forward unit, either using the generator while we are at anchor or when plugged in at a marina. However, recently, we spent a winter in Sydney and it did get cold so we ran the heating cycle for a month or so while anchored. That uses a bit of diesel but more troublesome is the noise and hours on the generator.

Both the heating and cooling cycles operate reasonably well. We have replaced the water pump since the original one failed after about 10 years. The most obvious issue is that the cooling pipes are pretty small and tend to accumulate a bit of scale and sea life. If you don't run the units regularly these pipes tend to get blocked up leading to reduced/no water flow and you then have to flush them out.

We are now in Tasmania where the temperatures do get pretty low so we have installed a Webasto 5.5 kW air heater in the aft port lazarette. You have to use different ducting (90mm) for this. We put in only 2 outlets, one in the aft cabin and the other in the saloon just under the chart table. It was not possible to put ducting into the forward cabin because of all the electrical installation under the port settee in the saloon.

Although there is an auxiliary pick up on the fuel tank which we though we could use, it has quite a large diameter and the small fuel pump supplied with the Webasto was not capable of lifting the fuel from the tank. We therefore had to install another pickup in the tank. The fuel consumption of the Webasto is minimal, the noise is minimal and the output is really good. The only negative is that you loose some storage space.

Happy to expand on this information if you want to send me a direct message.

Cheers, Tony

 

[SV_Gonromin]

Thanks Tony @Bogart - how brilliant to find another owner of the same year and model! There is a remarkable amount of "stuff" where you think there would be storage . The tradeoff for the high headroom, I suppose, is that there is not much under-sole space for electrical etc., so it all runs under the settees. I'll pass this on to the Other Half and he may well DM you.
Cheers,
Sarah