Opposing wind and current made it impossible to retrieve my anchor

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I consider the Delaware Bay to be a very nasty piece of water and plan my transits extra careful. Currents, wind and generally shallow water make it a challenge. Like whitewater. Reedy Point is NOT a small boat anchorage, it is for the big boys heading up and down the Delaware. Given the possibilities, losing an anchor wasn't too bad.

If you can't make it to Cape May or Lewes your best bet is to stay in Chesapeake City or tie up to a dock in the canal at Delaware City. The Delaware is a fast flowing river, tidal estuary and often a long fetch wind funnel.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,811
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
@All U Get, if the chain was wrapped around the keel, no amount of pulling was going to raise it, yet the anchor could still be dragging. That's what I gathered was happening.
Since the second anchor had the same issue I read it as the current holding the boat ahead of the anchor not wrapped around the keel. That's why I asked about helm response. Turning to the side might relieve the pressure enough to pull in rode or leave some more out. Hunters dance at anchor quite a bit that's why I thought it unusual that the rode was hard to the side of the boat. The illusion of drifting at slack, like in St. Mary's, can make one believe they are dragging. Our boat will sail ahead of the anchor in the right conditions. In the Bahamas we could see our anchor beneath the boat many times, always thought it couldn't be ours. West Palm has clean enough water to see the chain run under the boat toward the stern with opposing current and wind. Just curious why everyone would think the keel got wrapped.

All U Get
 
Dec 2, 2016
14
Hunter 38 Sea Bright NJ
Since the second anchor had the same issue I read it as the current holding the boat ahead of the anchor not wrapped around the keel. That's why I asked about helm response. Turning to the side might relieve the pressure enough to pull in rode or leave some more out. Hunters dance at anchor quite a bit that's why I thought it unusual that the rode was hard to the side of the boat. The illusion of drifting at slack, like in St. Mary's, can make one believe they are dragging. Our boat will sail ahead of the anchor in the right conditions. In the Bahamas we could see our anchor beneath the boat many times, always thought it couldn't be ours. West Palm has clean enough water to see the chain run under the boat toward the stern with opposing current and wind. Just curious why everyone would think the keel got wrapped.

All U Get
Thanks that's very informative. Yes turned the wheel but nothing changed. Knew we were dragging because I was watching our GPS, and the boat was tracking towards land, and the water depth was getting shallower very quickly. We had also been wondering if the keel was wrapped, but on the 2nd anchor she released quickly once the current changed, so maybe more likely the boat was ahead of the anchor as you are suggesting?
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
SG: read Gunni's information about a bahama moor. The anchors ARE away from each other so don't understand where going with that. Chief
 
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SG

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Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
I know how a Bahamian setup works. I've very occasionally used one.

In this case, the boat's crew was tired, wet from the rain, and in water where, even on a nice, quiet day, it's easy to be disoriented in. On a dark and stormy....

I've been through that area over 30 times, or so. I've anchored in the Delaware bay several times. With the light, the traffic, in wind, etc. the water is something "unreal". The bottom there wasn't so great that the set can be counted on being quick or clean.

I can't imagine 1% of the sailors on this board or their crews of having a chance of making a Bahamian set work in those conditions.

The expression "threw out" an anchor in the original post should be a clue in this case. I admit I have anchored (or tried to) using abreviated deployment methods (but I have a 60# anchor and 250' of HT chain on it). Generally, in challenging conditions I'd first advise to lower the anchor slowly and see what the boat "wants" to do. Then I'd let it pay out and set the anchor with a 2 or so to 1 scope. Then I'd let out more. I've put a bunch of time on my windlass which I could have avoided by letting scope out too quickly. If you are tired, short crewed, in a constrained area, or don't have a windlass then (as I've learned over the years) short cuts don't work do well.

For almost everyone who reads this, I wouldn't suggest on that night, under those conditions trying Bahamian anchoring setup. That's my opinion.

I've been sailing a long time, I wouldn't set a Bahamian rig then and there myself. Even if you set the GPS fix on the first anchor DROP and then set in those conditions, then what? Motor which way for the initial set? Favor the wind? Favor the current? Depending where at Reedy Point, the current isn't so simple. How does he get the anchors set where he wants?

I know how to accomplish it -- but we can motor at 9 knots if we have to and have a bunch of electronics at the helm. If I was determined to try it, I suppose it could get done. It might take a bunch of tries and windlass exerting retrievals. Just think about getting the set right so the setup is orthogonal to the current. On a calm day at slack tide, maybe.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
5,144
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Anyone ever experience this and have any suggestions?
This same thing used to happen to me when anchored at Snead Island just off the north side of the Manatee River near Tampa Bay, FL. I used nylon rode and chain then. The easiest way to get loose (as you noted already) was to wait until the tide started changing so I could more easily manipulate the rode tending under the boat, and get it off of the keel. Of course, this would not work too well in a crises situation that needed attention immediately.

Also, if you have to cut, tie a buoy to the bitter end of the rode so that once free you can go back and pick up your anchor. Every cruising boat should have at least one such buoy (fender ball) aboard ready to go. I usually keep one of mine lashed to the bow pulpit when at anchor.

 
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D

Deleted member 117556

Have this in GA with reversing tide and strong current. With chain & rode you need a sentinel (aka kellet) to keep the rode below the keel. Can use gallon jug filled with sand or a mushroom anchor but need 25 lb minimum. Or all chain.
 
May 24, 2004
7,202
CC 30 South Florida
The purpose of mooring a boat is to anchor it while restricting its movement. It allows for many boats to be tied up in a relatively small area of water. The Bahamian Moor works on the same principle and is popular in the Islands for use in congested anchorages. Two anchors are deployed off the bow at an angle which will allow both anchors swinging circles to overlap. It is in this overlap area where the boats movement is restricted to. This is not really an appropriate way of anchoring for foul conditions but works great to accommodate a number of boats in a tight space. Anchoring a boat from bow and stern is really not appropriate in a crowded anchorage as usually all other boats are allowed to swing, restricted by the BM but allowed to swing. Under certain conditions and away from a crowded anchorage there is indeed usage for anchoring from bow and stern. Seems to me in the above situation this would have been a suitable alternative.
 
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Mar 26, 2011
3,836
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
The bahamian moor can be difficult to master. Don't bring both rodes to the bow roller, instead tie or shackle your second rode to the first rode and let that first rode out so that the connection is well below your keel. That way you can swing over it. If both of your rodes are out of the water coming to the bow roller you can just about guarantee that you will be tangled in them and untwisting rodes to come off anchor.
Exactly. I've been doing this for years, I've pitched the idea many times, but few people do it. No tangles. My secondary rode is usually just a fixed length rope 75' long, which ends at the main rode. I extend it 100' while retrieving by clipping a piece to it. Easy.

A long bridle also helps. The secondary rode is attached to the main rode with either a soft shackle, prusik knot, or a locking chain hook.
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
SWagner - Congratulations on your new-to-you boat! To bad one had to have an experience like this on the maiden voyage but, on the other hand, there are worse things that could have happened.
There is seldom any two situations exactly alike but having ideas about what one could do in any event is good. I’m not familiar with the Delaware area so consider that in what I have to say.

Anyone ever experience this and have any suggestions?
For our cruising area I try to be self-sufficient as much as possible. Because of the very cold water ~ 40ºF Equipment: I’ve got a full wet suit under one of the settees [note to self: probably need to try it on and see if it still fits!]. Our dingy has a kellett anchor that has been handy to keep the inflatable dingy off the barnacle encrusted rocks. There is a large emergency anchor, rode, and chain, numerous assorted lines, etc.

Have I ever experienced a keel wrap? I think I have but probably only once in several decades of cruising. Because one can only see a few feet in the water I’m not totally sure about that, but that is what I suspect. Having a fire drill at midnight in 25 knots on a lee shore isn’t something I would care for, but I did have a memorable experience once, not a keel wrap but a change in the weather forecast where it was changed from NW to SE and upped to gale force, shortly before midnight on a near moonless night which would have left us really exposed in the anchorage. Had to weigh anchor and high-tail it to a better location miles away, a very small cove, one we had never been to before, that had a very narrow entrance encumbered with rocks shown on a chart with a very old survey. That has since turned into our secret anchorage and we have told no one about it. Hint: it’s between Port Hardy and Prince Rupert. I digressed.

Man, cutting the rode with a stainless steel Delta, ouch! OUCH! (again). Hindsight is always 20-20. Given that the Danforth held what one could have done, maybe, but not knowing everything, if there was dragging room, is deploy the Danforth to see if it would hold (if it had it’s own rode), and if it did, then wait til morning. and see if the wind died down enough. The downside is potential more keel wrap if the boat was getting turned around.

With the morning daylight, one could see what could be worked out.

Not having a kellett on board, in the morning and if the wind died down, try to take up the slack on the Delta rode and tie it off on the bow. Retrieve the Danforth and rig it up like a kellett on the slack rode then try to un-snag it.

Another plan - hey, this is a SS Delta we’re talking about! How cold is the water and how well can you swim? I’d dive on that keel rode!

It was good to hear the rode didn’t snag on the prop. That would be a real concern to me. Keel wrap is one thing but a prop wrap is another.

I also agree with what several others said about attaching a float (one of the boat fenders but preferably an orange fisherman’s fender ball) to the cut and abandoned rode. 90-feet of rode isn’t that expensive but the chain and anchor is. If conditions were really bad, that is probably what I would have done first, or nearly first, and be on it at first light before anyone steals it.

Those are my thoughts.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,811
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
We were able to use this knowledge to our advantage. About a week ago we were anchored in Winyah Bay, SC right at the USCG station. The current runs N to S on an ebb tide at 3kts. The wind was SSW at 15kts with gusts so as we faced north due to the current, we had 80 degree temperature winds over our stern flowing nicely into the cabin and very few bugs. When the current went slack in the evening we bounced for an hour until the boat turned to face the flood tide and wind. We were then treated to a calm period just at sunset and into the night. Middle of the night and another current change to ebb that didn't rock as much as earlier. The warm wind again flowing into the cabin. As we picked up the chain I motored in reverse because the hook was behind the boat.
SWagner you mentioned Reedy Point, were you anchored at Reedy Island?

All U Get
 
Dec 2, 2016
14
Hunter 38 Sea Bright NJ
We were able to use this knowledge to our advantage. About a week ago we were anchored in Winyah Bay, SC right at the USCG station. The current runs N to S on an ebb tide at 3kts. The wind was SSW at 15kts with gusts so as we faced north due to the current, we had 80 degree temperature winds over our stern flowing nicely into the cabin and very few bugs. When the current went slack in the evening we bounced for an hour until the boat turned to face the flood tide and wind. We were then treated to a calm period just at sunset and into the night. Middle of the night and another current change to ebb that didn't rock as much as earlier. The warm wind again flowing into the cabin. As we picked up the chain I motored in reverse because the hook was behind the boat.
SWagner you mentioned Reedy Point, were you anchored at Reedy Island?

All U Get
Yes, went through the very narrow channel to Reedy Island south.
 

SG

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Feb 11, 2017
1,670
J/Boat J/160 Annapolis
Pretty much the position of maximum current.

When the current and wind were from the same direction it would have been something there in terms of flow.

When they were opposed, you might have had some wave action.
 

WayneH

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Jan 22, 2008
1,109
Tartan 37 287 Pensacola, FL
Coming in from the Gulf of Mexico, the Admiral and I anchored in Shell Island Pass of the Atchafalaya River. There is a 1 to 1.5 knot current flowing through the pass to the gulf. The weather forecast had a couple of days of rain headed our way so we were staying put for a while.

Well, the wind swung around and started blowing up the channel and we had a nice air flow through the cabin. Well, until the wind picked up some more. Then we started getting a ride! The wind would push the boat upstream until we hit the end of the anchor rode. The anchor would pull the bow around and the keel would catch the current and downstream we would go until we hit the other end of the anchor line and the bow would line up with the current again. And the wind would push us upstream all over again. Repeat for 5 or 6 times. Then set the lunch hook off the stern and shorten the bow anchor rode a bit. Which finally settled us down.
 
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Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Yes Wayne, I drop a stern anchor pretty often. One of the neat things about a 2nd anchor is many times if its not too bad out all that is needed is to just drop her over the side and it stops the swinging. Chief
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,131
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
For our cruising area I try to be self-sufficient as much as possible. Because of the very cold water ~ 40ºF Equipment: I’ve got a full wet suit under one of the settees [note to self: probably need to try it on and see if it still fits!]. Our dingy has a kellett anchor that has been handy to keep the inflatable dingy off the barnacle encrusted rocks. There is a large emergency anchor, rode, and chain, numerous assorted lines, etc.
I agree with John. But stuff happens, right? Happened to me, too, that's how we learn the tips, tricks & techniques to minimize the possibilities.

Here's my explanation of using a sentinel or kellet for a friend who asked.

https://www.catalina36.org/forum/sailing-discussion/anchoring-lesson-learned
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Stu: Learning the killet concept is relatively new to me, just since buying my 250 wing keel in 2013. In fact have never tried my mushroom anchor killet yet but will this year. The rode length for the killet was informative for me as I had not considered that yet. Thanks my friend, Chief