Opinions wanted on sailing the west coast of Florida

[capta]

I sail North California with a Catalina 250 and it sure isn't too small even for some of the toughest rated seas in the world. I have run 16' seas and had complete control. I can't imagine a 23.5 Hunter being too small for the gulf! It should be a great boat Tony. Chief

When's the last time you had a wall of 60 to 70 knots of unforecast wind drive down on you in a few minutes followed by blinding rain and lightning, and had the seas created by this in 40 to 60 feet of water to contend with, on the West Coast of the country? There is no similarity between these two places at all.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Looking closer, the Hunter 23.5 has two versions, keel and centerboard. The OP does not say which one he has, but I imagine the keel. Both it and the Catalina 250 have transom-mounted rudders. To me, this makes the outboard more of a problem if also transom mounted b/c you have to "set it" to power straight forward while helming with the tiller which you also have to keep it from hitting the prop of the outboard. Maybe there are some true pros here, but I always found it a real PITA to keep the OB and the tiller/rudder working together in lumpy conditions, requiring both hands at times. So, if you're out there in your 23.5 footer and need to power dead into a strong east wind at from 2 to 5(?) n.mi. out, lumpy-bumpy conditions all around--then-- how do you think it might go?

 

[Benny17441]

The Gulf of Mexico can be treacherous. We have been caught is some thunderstorms packing winds of 50+ knots and rapidly building seas. These are fast developing and fast moving storms that you cannot outrun. An h23.5 might be adequate for inshore sailing as long as you can secure a good weather forecast. I would prefer a keel boat out in the Gulf. The good thing is that you have an intra-coastal waterway that runs from around Tarpon Springs to Naples. You might do a leg outside and if the forecast is iffy continue on the inside. We have an h320 and have chosen the inside route on occasions.

 

[Chief RA]

Capta: I check weather better than that and don't get caught in such conditions if possible. Yes, some simularities, but Cal is known to have rougher sea conditions other than we don't get direct hurricane hits. I have been in both places have you? I had 40+ knots of south wind a couple weeks ago in shallow Tomales Bay (behind Point Reyes). Read Stu's log report on his north run to Canada for some insight into our coast conditions. Check weather for Bodega Bay right now as it is usually 8 to 10 ft, high winds and basically has been all season and we have no "inside route".
Kings Gambit: I rarely move my motor for steerage and rudder will not hit the prop. Chief

 

[Kings Gambit]

Station 46013 BODEGA BAY - 48NM NW of San Francisco, CA
MM DD TIME WDIR WSPD GST WVHT APD
kts kts ft sec
09 23 6:40 am NW 15.5 17.5 5.2 5.1

 

[capta]

Have I?

I have been in both places have you?

Well, having begun my career at sea as a commercial fisherman out of Sausalito, fishing (salmon, dungees, king crab, tuna {Mexico} and the bottom fishing seasons) from Mexico to Alaska for 5 years, perhaps I have the tiniest bit of familiarity with the West Coast of the USA. Not yachting or messing about on boats, but actually staying out as long as possible because that's how we made our living. Running the bars to enter the various rivers and ports north of SF in weather any sane sailor wouldn't even leave the dock in.
A few years on the West Coast of Fla between Marco, St Pete, Naples and Ft Meyers operating everything from SF boats, private yachts and pontoon boats for a marina/tennis club, also probably doesn't count as 'local experience' in your book, but it was sufficient to give me a healthy respect for the Gulf side of Fla.
As for any similarities, I have yet to experience a tropical thunderstorm on the Pacific coast north of SF or unforecast weather on a daily basis, as is the rule in Fla.
But hey, what do I know? I'm just talking outa my ass as I ALWAYS do.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Capta: I had 40+ knots of south wind a couple weeks ago in shallow Tomales Bay (behind Point Reyes).

Lucky it was out of the south. Might this be another Rocna/Mantus testimonial? What anchor and scope did you have out?

 

[Chief RA]

Capta: I am aware of your seamanship but some of us have also been there done that. Set sea out of San Diego in 1968 in USS Kidd, DD 661 for Far East, Quemoy-Matsu crisis and rode out 4 or 5 Typhoons with 50'+ seas. Served at Roos Rds Puerto Rico and Great Lakes Ill. in early 60's. First sailed in Roos Rds. Vietnam 2 yrs, Europe, Korea, US Army. I have spent a couple days at sea/war as well.
The reason I post on such issues is to provide a trailerable sailboat perspective to advice given since much comes from larger craft and this sometimes skews the issue for us.
Chief

 

[capta]

Lucky it was out of the south. Might this be another Rocna/Mantus testimonial? What anchor and scope did you have out?[/QUOTE128385[/ATTACH] 128386[/ATTACH]

 

[Chief RA]

KG: UNLUCKY that winds were from south! Our worst winds are usually from NW, and south put me on 10 to 1 scope stern anchor. NW would have put me on a 150' Bahama tie to the beach on the shore! Anchor is a quality 20# Danforth knockoff and it held. 13# real Danforth was aboard as well as a 10# lunch hook. I would have slept better if I had put the 13# out on stern 45 degree set as well. I am cognizant of all the anchor discussions and do not wish to argue such points as I use what works best for my size boat.
My best, Chief

 

[capta]

Capta: I am aware of your seamanship but some of us have also been there done that. Set sea out of San Diego in 1968 in USS Kidd, DD 661 for Far East, Quemoy-Matsu crisis and rode out 4 or 5 Typhoons with 50'+ seas. Served at Roos Rds Puerto Rico and Great Lakes Ill. in early 60's. First sailed in Roos Rds. Vietnam 2 yrs, Europe, Korea, US Army. I have spent a couple days at sea/war as well.
The reason I post on such issues is to provide a trailerable sailboat perspective to advice given since much comes from larger craft and this sometimes skews the issue for us.
Chief

Then why ask "I have been in both places have you?"

 

[Kings Gambit]

KG: UNLUCKY that winds were from south! Our worst winds are usually from NW, and south put me on 10 to 1 scope stern anchor. NW would have put me on a 150' Bahama tie to the beach on the shore! Anchor is a quality 20# Danforth knockoff and it held. 13# real Danforth was aboard as well as a 10# lunch hook. I would have slept better if I had put the 13# out on stern 45 degree set as well. I am cognizant of all the anchor discussions and do not wish to argue such points as I use what works best for my size boat.
My best, Chief

What?-- Did this wind come at night unexpectedly? Why anchor by the stern toward the conditions?

 

[Chief RA]

Came at night unexpected as south winds are prone to do. Thus, reason for safety south anchor. Chief

 

[Kings Gambit]

Came at night unexpected as south winds are prone to do. Thus, reason for safety south anchor. Chief

I guess this should refute the notion I hear frequently that the stern anchor does not have to be as large or as strong as the bow anchor. Most carry a smaller "stern" anchor. If it's necessary to put it out, then it should hold to whatever degree the bow anchor can. Nicht so? That's why a Fortress is nice--strong and light for relatively easy deployment off the stern. Can "fold away" when not needed in near future.

 

[Kings Gambit]

KG: UNLUCKY that winds were from south! Our worst winds are usually from NW, and south put me on 10 to 1 scope stern anchor. NW would have put me on a 150' Bahama tie to the beach on the shore! Anchor is a quality 20# Danforth knockoff and it held. 13# real Danforth was aboard as well as a 10# lunch hook. I would have slept better if I had put the 13# out on stern 45 degree set as well. I am cognizant of all the anchor discussions and do not wish to argue such points as I use what works best for my size boat.
My best, Chief

Where does one anchor in Tomales Bay?-- I don't see any marked spots.

 

[Benny17441]

We call a stern anchor a "lunch anchor" and it is a smallish anchor kept in a cockpit locker, easily deployed for a short stop when in calm conditions.

 

[Kings Gambit]

We call a stern anchor a "lunch anchor" and it is a smallish anchor kept in a cockpit locker, easily deployed for a short stop when in calm conditions.

On a boat with chain rode and working windlass, why would anybody need a "lunch hook?" On a boat with a #45 anchor, 20-ft of 3/8" chain backed by 9/16" or 5/8" nylon rode that you have to raise manually--yeah--put out a #25 "lunch hook" on 20-ft of 1/4" chain backed by 3/8" nylon rode instead, and enjoy the afternoon lunch stop! Otherwise, I don't get it. Instead, carry at least two full sets of ground tackle rated fully for the boat.

 

[Benny17441]

Florida's West coast is quite shallow; there is a saying that if you want to go to a depth of 100' you have to go out 100 miles. Most coastal cruisers that traverse the Gulf stay at about 10-20nm from shore at a depth of 20-30 ft. Storms here can develop quickly with winds in excess of 40-50 knots and move fast making it extremely difficult to escape them. With the water so shallow the seas also build up fast and to exaggerated heights. I do not like to run ahead of a storm so I will usually head for a course directly into it to shorten the time of exposure to winds and waves. Even some of these fast movers can last for an hour. We have a 32' boat and sometimes I have really whished that it was larger. Stay close to shore and to a pass into the Intra-coastal and keep an eye on the weather. Like I said before luckily we have the intra-coastal which runs from near Tarpon Springs all the way to near Naples. There is nothing much in the Gulf side but the intra-coastal and inner bays are a really nice destination and it will be safely accessible to your boat.

 

[Chief RA]

KG: The 20# has 30' of 1/4" chain as well and 7/16 rode. All of my anchors have 20 to 30' of chain. My experience says anchors don't work well without plenty of chain. Anchoring in Tomales is behind NW tall cliffs with little to protect from the south, hence the stern anchor! Yes, I like Fortress anchors as well for trailerables.
Benny: As to size of stern anchor: one size does not fit all! My lunch hook would likely not have held by itself. Stern anchor sets are probably more important than a bow set as you can have more wind surface exposure on the stern. A stern anchor need not be kept on the stern. Just run the rode down the rail and cleat it off at the stern once it is back set.
Next time I anchor/tie in my Tomales spot I will double anchor bow to south and Bahama tie the stern!
Chief

 

[Roland5048]

Been sailing the west coast of Fl. for close to thirty years, mostly out of the Tarpon Springs area. Have sailed to and around in Charlotte Harbor many times. Great sailing area in the harbor, but shallow and the seas do kick up when the summer thunderstorms and north winds from winter fronts blow through. If you pick your days and don't stray too far out in the gulf you should be OK. Coming back in through Boca Grande pass could be an issue on a falling tide with a small outboard. The current runs fairly fast through there. As was mentioned in previous posts, there's lots of places to stop, gunkhole, and just have fun inside the harbor. If you decided to make a run to the Keys, it is about a 24 hour trip through fairly shallow water that gets a short, steep chop when the wind blows. Not undoable in a boat your size, but I'm willing to bet a beer or two that within a year you are going to be looking at bigger boats. If so, try to stay no more than a four foot draft.
Enjoy your retirement when it comes. Best thing I ever did.