I've sailed for the last 12 years on Lake Erie, and a few times on Lake Michigan. I've gotten the impression from other sailors who have sailed on the ocean that sailing the lakes is a piece of cake. I, as well as many other lakes sailors (and racers) know that all of the lakes have their own set of "unique" qualities, whether it be Lake Michigan, Lake Superior, Lake Huron, Lake St. Clair, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario etc... Anyway, I thought this would be a good forum to sound off on...any thoughts out there in cyberland?? What is YOUR opinion on sailing the Lakes?
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Gordon Lightfoot
Ever hear the song "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"? Also, you could ask Ted Turner about his first experience in the Chicago to Mackinac race. If you are a young guy, you might not remember these things.
Ever hear the song "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"? Also, you could ask Ted Turner about his first experience in the Chicago to Mackinac race. If you are a young guy, you might not remember these things.
Re: Great Lakes Sailing
I was reading an account of someone sailing from Northern Europe to the great lakes and she wrote that they hit rough weather on lake Huron and it was really miserable. That lead me to believe that sailing on the great lakes has it's own set of challenges that are no less than "blue water" sailing. For me, I have never sailed on the ocean but, when you can travel nearly 2000 miles on rivers and lakes that would challenge some ocean passages as well. All I have ever done is sail on Georgain Bay, I feel I can get plenty of challenges on this 100mile long bay.
I was reading an account of someone sailing from Northern Europe to the great lakes and she wrote that they hit rough weather on lake Huron and it was really miserable. That lead me to believe that sailing on the great lakes has it's own set of challenges that are no less than "blue water" sailing. For me, I have never sailed on the ocean but, when you can travel nearly 2000 miles on rivers and lakes that would challenge some ocean passages as well. All I have ever done is sail on Georgain Bay, I feel I can get plenty of challenges on this 100mile long bay.
Great Lakes CAN be rough
I've sailing on the Great Lakes for 18 seasons, including about 24 overnight crossings of Lake Huron. The folks I know who have both salt water and Great Lakes experience have a lot of respect for the Lakes. The Lakes don't typically get over 8 foot seas, and there is no swell to speak of, but we do get a nasty "Great Lakes Chop" type of short steep wave that is much less comfortable than being on the ocean. I've never really understood what causes it, but I know a lot of people who have commented on the phenomenon. Steve Christensen
I've sailing on the Great Lakes for 18 seasons, including about 24 overnight crossings of Lake Huron. The folks I know who have both salt water and Great Lakes experience have a lot of respect for the Lakes. The Lakes don't typically get over 8 foot seas, and there is no swell to speak of, but we do get a nasty "Great Lakes Chop" type of short steep wave that is much less comfortable than being on the ocean. I've never really understood what causes it, but I know a lot of people who have commented on the phenomenon. Steve Christensen
Chops common in many lakes
Our Lake Pontchartrain maxes out at 15', but can have chop over 6'. We've been told its because of being so wide, but so shallow. I thought the Great Lakes were all quite deep, so maybe that's not why the chop is created after all.
Our Lake Pontchartrain maxes out at 15', but can have chop over 6'. We've been told its because of being so wide, but so shallow. I thought the Great Lakes were all quite deep, so maybe that's not why the chop is created after all.
Erie can bite
I’ve sailed 4 of the lakes, from Superior (my home waters) through Huron, Erie, & Ontario (to Fla. & the Bahamas) - and I’ve never seen a nastier piece of water than Lake Erie. Those little 4' “ankle biters” are SQUARE, and come from every direction! Most knowledgeable sailors consider the Great Lakes to be an “inland sea”, for good reason. Tho’ you won’t experience longer passages (we did 52 hours W. Otter Cove to Sault St. Marie, in 1992), or hurricanes, the lakes can prepare you for most anything else you’ll likely experience on salt water. Regards, Gord May
I’ve sailed 4 of the lakes, from Superior (my home waters) through Huron, Erie, & Ontario (to Fla. & the Bahamas) - and I’ve never seen a nastier piece of water than Lake Erie. Those little 4' “ankle biters” are SQUARE, and come from every direction! Most knowledgeable sailors consider the Great Lakes to be an “inland sea”, for good reason. Tho’ you won’t experience longer passages (we did 52 hours W. Otter Cove to Sault St. Marie, in 1992), or hurricanes, the lakes can prepare you for most anything else you’ll likely experience on salt water. Regards, Gord May
Lake Erie is not for the squemish
Aside from an afternoon on the water in Maine and a couple of short treks on the Chesapeake our five years of sailing has been on Lake Erie. I have always heard it is the (lack of)depth, especially on the western end (roughly 30-40 feet), that causes the wave action. Historically, the French military and fur traders were very careful, even using Sandusky Bay and portaging to the mouth of the Portage river (Port Clinton, Ohio). Sailing off the south shore, wind from the south is great. It can be over 10 knots and the water surface is hardly bothered. If it is from 90 to 270 from the other side. 10 knots can make our H27 ride uncomfortable and provides training for the crew. Short frequency four footers are often only the beginning. I am not suggesting this is anything exceptional. As has been mentioned, every ground has its own personality. It has been been repeated many times, "Ask the locals." One of the first times I asked about the strong wind one day from a very experienced sailor the advice was, "Good day for a book." As for the comment about Lightfoot's "Edmund Fitzgerald," don't miss Stan Roger's "White Squall." Andy "Baroque"
Aside from an afternoon on the water in Maine and a couple of short treks on the Chesapeake our five years of sailing has been on Lake Erie. I have always heard it is the (lack of)depth, especially on the western end (roughly 30-40 feet), that causes the wave action. Historically, the French military and fur traders were very careful, even using Sandusky Bay and portaging to the mouth of the Portage river (Port Clinton, Ohio). Sailing off the south shore, wind from the south is great. It can be over 10 knots and the water surface is hardly bothered. If it is from 90 to 270 from the other side. 10 knots can make our H27 ride uncomfortable and provides training for the crew. Short frequency four footers are often only the beginning. I am not suggesting this is anything exceptional. As has been mentioned, every ground has its own personality. It has been been repeated many times, "Ask the locals." One of the first times I asked about the strong wind one day from a very experienced sailor the advice was, "Good day for a book." As for the comment about Lightfoot's "Edmund Fitzgerald," don't miss Stan Roger's "White Squall." Andy "Baroque"
Lake Michigan
I grew up in Chicago and as a kid (teens) I crewed out of Belmont Harbor on Rhodes 19's, Flying Dutchman, etc., which raced just about every weekend. We would sail (no engines) a good half-mile to a mile offshore to our course, and despite the weather being excellent a great majority of the time, when those storms blew in late afternnon from the west, all hell broke loose!! It certainly built character..... Due to the sandstone-round bottom of Michigan that was carved from galcial retreival, it essentially is a large bath tub that just sloshes around. I recall the uneven wave patterns and swells, hanging on when the weather caught us. A run from Chicago up to Mackinac has to be an adventure, especially due to the few safe harbors to run into and the what that lake can turn into in bad weather. This is where you have to rely on your skills, scrot and luck. Regards Bob Catalina 30 Lake Lanier, Ga (a real monster!)
I grew up in Chicago and as a kid (teens) I crewed out of Belmont Harbor on Rhodes 19's, Flying Dutchman, etc., which raced just about every weekend. We would sail (no engines) a good half-mile to a mile offshore to our course, and despite the weather being excellent a great majority of the time, when those storms blew in late afternnon from the west, all hell broke loose!! It certainly built character..... Due to the sandstone-round bottom of Michigan that was carved from galcial retreival, it essentially is a large bath tub that just sloshes around. I recall the uneven wave patterns and swells, hanging on when the weather caught us. A run from Chicago up to Mackinac has to be an adventure, especially due to the few safe harbors to run into and the what that lake can turn into in bad weather. This is where you have to rely on your skills, scrot and luck. Regards Bob Catalina 30 Lake Lanier, Ga (a real monster!)
Piece 'o cake, eh?
I've been in a nasty storm on the Gulf, and plenty of them on Lake MI. A squall is a squall no matter where you are, and any sailor who takes for granted or disses any body of water is a fool.
I've been in a nasty storm on the Gulf, and plenty of them on Lake MI. A squall is a squall no matter where you are, and any sailor who takes for granted or disses any body of water is a fool.
Just What My Site Wants to Accomplish!
This is great stuff about sailing The Great Lakes! I started a website that began as a compilation of MY favorite Local finds and cruising destinations that's available for everyone to use for free....I encourage ALL to post on my On-line Cruising Guide - their local finds. We actually need content from the Great Lakes area. I will edit - just post/email me anything off the site! Here is the link:http://cruisingguide.blogspot.com/ Nobody tells it better than a fellow Sailor - lets share the knowledge! Regards, Rob
This is great stuff about sailing The Great Lakes! I started a website that began as a compilation of MY favorite Local finds and cruising destinations that's available for everyone to use for free....I encourage ALL to post on my On-line Cruising Guide - their local finds. We actually need content from the Great Lakes area. I will edit - just post/email me anything off the site! Here is the link:http://cruisingguide.blogspot.com/ Nobody tells it better than a fellow Sailor - lets share the knowledge! Regards, Rob
Fresh water?
I raced a 30 footer on Lake Michigan for a number of years. The wind can blow just as hard and change just as suddenly as anywhere. Compared to the bit of ocean sailing I've done, it's the wave shape and period that always seemed difficult. Very steep ... almost square as another poster remarked ... and also very close together, short period. Unless you have a very powerful sail plan, they can just flat stall you out, and the motion can be horrendous. Seems to start that way in the ocean, but as the wind continues, period increases and shape smooths out. The skipper used to say that the reason was the difference in surface tension between fresh and salt water. The (lower?) surface tension creates a different wave shape. Don't know if that's true or not. We were north of Miggs Field (closed, used to be downtown Chicago airport) one day going north (south wind) on just enough wind to keep a chute full, and saw the sky darkening to the north. Switched over to a working jib and double reefed main. Just as the front came through, a single engine plane was above us on final. The wind changed from drifting out of the south to 40+ out of the north so fast the plane lost lift and went right in about 100 yard in front of us. Doesn't matter whether its ocean or lake. Good seamanship is required either way. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
I raced a 30 footer on Lake Michigan for a number of years. The wind can blow just as hard and change just as suddenly as anywhere. Compared to the bit of ocean sailing I've done, it's the wave shape and period that always seemed difficult. Very steep ... almost square as another poster remarked ... and also very close together, short period. Unless you have a very powerful sail plan, they can just flat stall you out, and the motion can be horrendous. Seems to start that way in the ocean, but as the wind continues, period increases and shape smooths out. The skipper used to say that the reason was the difference in surface tension between fresh and salt water. The (lower?) surface tension creates a different wave shape. Don't know if that's true or not. We were north of Miggs Field (closed, used to be downtown Chicago airport) one day going north (south wind) on just enough wind to keep a chute full, and saw the sky darkening to the north. Switched over to a working jib and double reefed main. Just as the front came through, a single engine plane was above us on final. The wind changed from drifting out of the south to 40+ out of the north so fast the plane lost lift and went right in about 100 yard in front of us. Doesn't matter whether its ocean or lake. Good seamanship is required either way. Tom Monroe Carlyle Lake
Well I can tell you
I was bringing my 28 ft Columbia from Port Clinton to Erie, Pa on lake Erie in 1984. I had just bought the 1969 vessel. Started out with a brisk 15 knt south wind and a nice beam reach. very nice. BUT, then a "little" blow came up .NNW # 25knt. Supposed to be 3ft waves. Made the mistake of taking down sail and motoring. ran out of fuel 5 mi out of Cleveland Ohio. No sail, no motor. Could not go on deck due to pitching action, to put up storm sail. Spinning like a top off the wave crest and sleding down the wave into the trough. Height? Well, it was pitch black and 3am, but all I saw was a wall of water coming at me that I stared up at. It was like the side of a semi tractor trailer rolling past me. Finally the CG came out in a 40ft rescue boat. When he was in the trough I could just barely see his strobe light on his mast. Scared? You bet. Lake Erie. Respect it.
I was bringing my 28 ft Columbia from Port Clinton to Erie, Pa on lake Erie in 1984. I had just bought the 1969 vessel. Started out with a brisk 15 knt south wind and a nice beam reach. very nice. BUT, then a "little" blow came up .NNW # 25knt. Supposed to be 3ft waves. Made the mistake of taking down sail and motoring. ran out of fuel 5 mi out of Cleveland Ohio. No sail, no motor. Could not go on deck due to pitching action, to put up storm sail. Spinning like a top off the wave crest and sleding down the wave into the trough. Height? Well, it was pitch black and 3am, but all I saw was a wall of water coming at me that I stared up at. It was like the side of a semi tractor trailer rolling past me. Finally the CG came out in a 40ft rescue boat. When he was in the trough I could just barely see his strobe light on his mast. Scared? You bet. Lake Erie. Respect it.
Great Lakes
Igrew up on Lake St. Clair and have sailed all of the lakes except Ontario. They are truly inland seas. the comments about the short wavelength are true. I remember my father telling me as a kid that the reason the there are no E Scows on lake St. Clair is because of the wave period - they submarined. I can remember several ansty storms, especially the one that lasted the last 18 hours of our 1966 Port Huron to Mac race. 50 - 70 kt winds and the only time I remember St. Elmo's fire. What an experience!
Igrew up on Lake St. Clair and have sailed all of the lakes except Ontario. They are truly inland seas. the comments about the short wavelength are true. I remember my father telling me as a kid that the reason the there are no E Scows on lake St. Clair is because of the wave period - they submarined. I can remember several ansty storms, especially the one that lasted the last 18 hours of our 1966 Port Huron to Mac race. 50 - 70 kt winds and the only time I remember St. Elmo's fire. What an experience!
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