Opinions on this Seaward 23?

Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
@Scandium
Congrats. You will find folks here willing to help
Crazy Dave formerly American Marine & Sail Supply.

Last show in Annapolis after it was over doing 28 hp with a power sailor upon leaving the show. everyone after me but no tickets which was the greatest way of leaving that show aftr attending over 30 years as I retired.
....and just one of the reasons we call him CRAZY!
:hook2:
 
Aug 16, 2018
82
Newport 30-mkIII Baltimore
Nice! Sounds like your kids are ready for a boating adventure.

I sure wouldn't want to live on a 22 footer, but it feels like a great camper. Our kids consider it our vacation cabin.

In our cruising area, there are a number of marine parks (state parks on the water); many of them have dock space, which works great for us. Not sure if there's anything like that in your area, but if so, take advantage of it. I think your tidal range in the Chesapeake is pretty small, so beaching for lunch or overnight might also be an option. We can't do that in the Puget Sound with 15+ foot tidal swings.
State parks with docks sounds cool. Haven't seen that on the Chessie (though haven't been around much). Some have boat ramps or anchorage areas. Marinas I've seen here are pretty pricey, but I suppose shouldn't be that bad for a 23 footer. And in any case way cheaper than a hotel/beach house vacation if you'd consider that the alternative (though not sure my wife would consider it equivalent; due to lack of toilet, shower etc:)

Yeah you have crazy tidal ranges there, that would freak me out, lol. Checked for my planned launch now, and <2 ft swing here during full moon.
 
Aug 16, 2018
82
Newport 30-mkIII Baltimore
Have a blast, @Scandium! We've been sailing our Catalina 22 with 2 kids (currently 11 and 8) for a few seasons now. We started when our kids were about the same age as yours, as a way to get outside with kids too small for backpacking. We stick to 3-6 days out at a time. And we've found we always look for space at a dock (vs. anchoring or mooring balls). It's good for everyone to have some space to walk.

One addition that's been a real winner for us is centerline jacklines to the bow, and harnesses / tethers for everyone. The kids love to hang out up on the bow while we're under way, and I'm comfortable with them scrambling up there as long as they're clipped in.

Post pictures when you get out, and we'll all enjoy it with you!
Sorry for late reply, but I've been started thinking about taking the kids out, specifically about harnesses. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around them, and deciding whether I want them or not. To me it seems the tether would have to be short enough so they can't go over for it to be safe? If my 2 year old falls over and gets dragged behind the boat (esp face first!), even for a few seconds, she'd swallow tons of water and that seems way worse then floating in the PFD? Assuming we retrieve her ofc, but we'd go out in pretty benign conditions with the kids anyway. In the cockpit this seems possible, but with kids on foredeck it would be impossible to have an harness short enough so they can't fall overboard? And falling off the bow they would be dragged under/in front of the boat? I don't think I would want that myself even..

I may consider a very short harness for my youngest that would keep her from getting to the side, but
anything that risk "keelhauling" my kids does not seem to me to improve safety over just a pfd? Am i wrong?

maybe I need a separate thread for kids on small boats..
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I've sailed with my kids in the Chesapeake Bay many times and the NC outer banks regularly. I've never felt the need for a harness. I purchased harnesses when I first started sailing with my kids but... I tend to watch the weather and NOT take my kids out when rough weather is forecast. The rule on my boat is that if you are not in the cabin then the PDF must be worn. I've only ever had one of my kids fall off the boat once and I had her back on board within 5 minutes.
 
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AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Sorry for late reply, but I've been started thinking about taking the kids out, specifically about harnesses....
Good points, @Scandium. I'm congenitally a bit paranoid, so it's no surprise that @rgranger is more adventurous than me. Thus far, we've managed to limit or COB drills to a stern rail light and a dropped bag of popcorn.**

I've been planning to write up a post about my jackline setup on my build thread (https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/sailing-and-restoring-9874.195739/). But I probably won't get to that for another week or two; but maybe a quick description will help. We have 2 sets of jacklines, marked in red and blue on this diagram (stolen from sailboatdata.com). One on each side of the cockpit, running just below the seat level. They're about 3 feet long, so we can clip in and still move around some in the cockpit. With a 3-foot tether, you might theoretically be able to fall out of the boat, but wouldn't reach the water.

drawing.png


My recollection when we had a 2-year-old is that we mostly held her while sailing (our first 'big' season of sailing wasn't until she was 4). But the cockpit jacklines did let her move around on her own; nice for her and when we needed all the parents' hands free to raise or douse sails, etc. And once or twice, when it got rough, we've sealed up the cabin and clipped everyone in in the cockpit.

The forward jacklines are mounted to pad eyes anchored through the bulkheads, and to a single pad eye forward. The jackline runs are ~2 feet from the rail. And we have ~2 feet of freeboard, so with a 3 foot tether and a chest harness, you'd always stay head above water. But it might be close on the low side if we had a rail in the water. The kids are pretty good about clipping on the high side, but that's not quite 100%, especially after a tack.

More details to come eventually with a future post; I'll post a link here when I get it up.


** Both recovered successfully; the latter incident had my 10-year-old in a major panic, not for the lost snacks, but out of concern for adding plastics to the ocean. :)

...maybe I need a separate thread for kids on small boats..
:plus: Sounds like a good plan. We'd all learn something useful.
 

JRT

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Feb 14, 2017
2,037
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Another vote for pick your sail days. No harness for kids for me, Kids must stay in cockpit or with an adult if forward.
 
Aug 16, 2018
82
Newport 30-mkIII Baltimore
Good points, @Scandium. I'm congenitally a bit paranoid, so it's no surprise that @rgranger is more adventurous than me. Thus far, we've managed to limit or COB drills to a stern rail light and a dropped bag of popcorn.**

I've been planning to write up a post about my jackline setup on my build thread (https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/sailing-and-restoring-9874.195739/). But I probably won't get to that for another week or two; but maybe a quick description will help.
Thanks! Great explanation, that clarifies a lot.
Your build thread is great btw, I've learned so much there. Reading about a how things apply to a boat about the same size as mine is very helpful. (compared to people installing the 2nd shower on their 40 footer:D)

Not quite sure how I fall on the paranoid/"reckless" spectrum, probably more towards the latter. :) Our 2 year old will put up with being held for at most 30 seconds.. For now I think we'll try some very short sails on very calm days and see how it goes. And then consider harness for when we might go for longer trips. Setting a tether up in the cockpit at least would be simple so that's a good option. Still unsure about hooking kids in on the bow.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I did not mean to sound cavalier .... try tossing a life vest overboard and practicing you MOB drills. You will gain a real sense of how difficult it is for YOU on YOUR boat to go back and retrieve.

We do this every season AND during one of the drills the scenario is that I am the MOB. I want to know my family is capable of coming back for me as well.
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
I did not mean to sound cavalier .... try tossing a life vest overboard and practicing you MOB drills. You will gain a real sense of how difficult it is for YOU on YOUR boat to go back and retrieve.

We do this every season AND during one of the drills the scenario is that I am the MOB. I want to know my family is capable of coming back for me as well.
Good call. I think I'll have to add practicing the Dad-overboard scenario to our plan for this season.
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Another vote for pick your sail days...
I generally agree, and we've cut at least one cruise short to get back to port before a predicted storm (45 knots was a lot more fun in our marina slip!).

But our roughest day yet was predicted as 8 knots from the south, and turned out to be 15-22 from the west. We ended up riding a 2+ knot current into the short, steep wind-against-current chop (motoring, as the wind was directly on our nose). So far as I can tell, I couldn't have avoided those conditions based on weather forecasts. Perhaps if I'd thought to pull out the binoculars and watch other vessels ahead of us before entering the passage, I'd have seen what we were headed for.

It never felt terrifying, and everyone handled it well. But we learned a few things - one being that weather forecasts can't always be trusted.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Good call. I think I'll have to add practicing the Dad-overboard scenario to our plan for this season.
hahaha... yes! I like to toss the life vest over, then just let go of the tiller and yell, man over board. Then sit back and watch. We have fun with it and a few MOB drills makes everyone feel more confident on board.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
I generally agree, and we've cut at least one cruise short to get back to port before a predicted storm (45 knots was a lot more fun in our marina slip!).

But our roughest day yet was predicted as 8 knots from the south, and turned out to be 15-22 from the west. We ended up riding a 2+ knot current into the short, steep wind-against-current chop (motoring, as the wind was directly on our nose). So far as I can tell, I couldn't have avoided those conditions based on weather forecasts. Perhaps if I'd thought to pull out the binoculars and watch other vessels ahead of us before entering the passage, I'd have seen what we were headed for.

It never felt terrifying, and everyone handled it well. But we learned a few things - one being that weather forecasts can't always be trusted.
I'm not second guessing your situation.. but your story reminded me of a cruise I once took with my son. We were crossing the Albemarle sound and faced short steep chop in a 20 kts wind. I tried motoring and it felt like each time we hit a wave someone slammed the hull with a sledge hammer. I put up the storm jib, heavily reefed the main... got the two sails well balanced and the boat just sliced through the chop. It was much more comfortable. We actually had a blast. I noticed another 20-something sailboat off to my port trying to motor and I could see the hull riding up the wave and slamming down. Even a little storm jib alone can be better (feeling) than motoring in chop.
 
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AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
723
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
I'm not second guessing your situation.. but your story reminded me of a cruise I once took with my son. We were crossing the Albemarle sound and faced short steep chop in a 20 kts wind. I tried motoring and it felt like each time we hit a wave someone slammed the hull with a sledge hammer. I put up the storm jib, heavily reefed the main... got the two sails well balanced and the boat just sliced through the chop. It was much more comfortable. We actually had a blast. I noticed another 20-something sailboat off to my port trying to motor and I could see the hull riding up the wave and slamming down. Even a little storm jib alone can be better (feeling) than motoring in chop.
Thanks; I'll keep that in mind if we run into anything similar.