Opinions on this Seaward 23?

[Scandium]

I'll be going to check out this boat soon. Would be my first boat on my own (as my parents always had them.) I've looked at a handful of boats so far, most in dilapidated condition (leaks, rot). Does anyone here have long-distance opinions of how this looks?
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/73185

- Been listed for sale for nearly a year. Speculate why?
- Price might be high? Few for sale, but saw a similar one in FL for half the price..
- Anything to look for?
- Owner claims tow weight is 4,500 lb. Does that seem accurate? My Honda pilot 4wd is rated at 5k lb. (I'd keep it in a marina, probably little or no trailering)

This is just an initial assessment, I'd get a survey if I want to buy. Assuming it's good, since the owner struggle to offload it I'm thinking I'd make any offer at least a couple thousand below list? I think NADA average is like $10k..

Appreciate any input.
Thanks
ps; apologies for spamming the forum. Two top threads are mine

 

[Simon Sexton]

That's a pretty nice boat for its age! The sails look to be fairly new, and the fiberglass seems average. I say this because whoever made this listing was smart enough to wet the boat down before taking the pictures, which makes the fiberglass look shiny and new. 13k is a bit of a steep price for a 23 footer. Granted, she's nice, but I'd try my best to negotiate with the seller to drop the price by at least a grand. Can you post the link to the boat for sale in Florida? It would be best to compare the condition of both boats, and see which one will end up costing you less in the end.
A couple things to look for are soft deck spots, rusting rigging and the bilge. If there is any fiberglass damage anywhere, be sure to check it and make sure the wood core beneath isn't rotten. After purchasing a vessel, always be sure to haul it out and have the hull inspected before you even think about sailing it, no matter what the owner says.
Check the engine, make sure it runs smoothly and has been properly maintained. Major engine repairs cost hundreds, and a new engine altogether will cost you over a thousand dollars.
Check the title, registration and the last time the boat was inspected. Search the cabin for all the required safety equipment: Fire extinguishers (still useable), extra PFDs (still in good condition), distress devices (flares, SOS flag, etc.), water bailing device, things like that.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Seems high for the age. Others are newer for same or less $ and he has reduced it $1600. Salt water takes more away from it. Must be wanting more for the new trailer. Looks like he installed expensive Zarcor companionway doors, that's a plus for some. 15hp engine is overkill. Maybe he needed it on the river. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailboats/Hake
How old are the sails? Engine?

 

[JRT]

Motor is 2 stroke, I bet from 1989. If it runs ok that is great but I'd factor a replacement into your thought process depending on how critical you think a motor is for your sailing. Sails look nice and maybe full batten, could just be the pictures, but if they are soft and dirty that is another cost to consider.

I think it looks like it is well loved and cared for, if the pics are current. I can't tell you how many boats I've went to check out and the pics had to be years old and what was presented was not loved or cared for recently.

To me if your budget is what they are asking and it is actually like this in person and you like it, then it looks very sweet even if it is a bit higher then average. However if there are little issues and lots of them then the price should be reduced accordingly.

 

[Scandium]

Seems high for the age. Others are newer for same or less $ and he has reduced it $1600. Salt water takes more away from it. Must be wanting more for the new trailer. Looks like he installed expensive Zarcor companionway doors, that's a plus for some. 15hp engine is overkill. Maybe he needed it on the river. https://www.sailboatlistings.com/sailboats/Hake
How old are the sails? Engine?

Thanks. Looking at the listings $10k isn't outrageous for a Seaward 23, seems about normal. Of course without knowing much about equipment and conditions of any of them. (unfortunatley the nearest one of the others is 7 hour drive away.. This one is under 3 hrs.). And several have a wheel, I'd prefer tiller. But you're right that some of those are newer for same price.

Yes I don't love the engine. Too big, and a 2-stroke. Maybe keep it a season or so, but if I can find a nice ~8-10 hp 4-stroke I'd probably replace it. About $1-1.5k for a used/discounted one.

Also don't love hank-on jib for sailing with the family, but again not a huge deal at first. If I eventually want to upgrade that'd be at least another $1-1.5k from what I can tell?

The doors on the companionway I think looks like could be in the way when they're open? Can you take them off in some way? I've never used those. Edit: checked zarcor website and yes they hook off when underway. Cool I guess, but I place about zero value on it personally.. Avoiding teak work is nice though

 

[JRT]

Hey 3 hrs away, bring cash offer and drive it home with the trailer, maybe even cut $1-2k off it if you show up with cash.

 

[Justin_NSA]

The doors on the companionway I think looks like could be in the way when they're open? Can you take them off in some way? I've never used those. Edit: checked zarcor website and yes they hook off when underway. Cool I guess, but I place about zero value on it personally.. Avoiding teak work is nice though

People that have them luv 'em. Usually see them on larger boats with more room. They have interchangeable panels for privacy or ventilation.

 

[Scandium]

That's a pretty nice boat for its age! The sails look to be fairly new, and the fiberglass seems average. I say this because whoever made this listing was smart enough to wet the boat down before taking the pictures, which makes the fiberglass look shiny and new. 13k is a bit of a steep price for a 23 footer. Granted, she's nice, but I'd try my best to negotiate with the seller to drop the price by at least a grand. Can you post the link to the boat for sale in Florida? It would be best to compare the condition of both boats, and see which one will end up costing you less in the end.
A couple things to look for are soft deck spots, rusting rigging and the bilge. If there is any fiberglass damage anywhere, be sure to check it and make sure the wood core beneath isn't rotten. After purchasing a vessel, always be sure to haul it out and have the hull inspected before you even think about sailing it, no matter what the owner says.
Check the engine, make sure it runs smoothly and has been properly maintained. Major engine repairs cost hundreds, and a new engine altogether will cost you over a thousand dollars.
Check the title, registration and the last time the boat was inspected. Search the cabin for all the required safety equipment: Fire extinguishers (still useable), extra PFDs (still in good condition), distress devices (flares, SOS flag, etc.), water bailing device, things like that.

Thanks for the list! I'll make sure to check those things!
One thing; from what I can tell these are solid fiberglass. So there is no wood in the deck? Does that change what I need to look for?

Owner claims he rebedded hardware and there are no leaks. Which has been the issue on all the boats I've looked at so far, with indoor water features..

The one in FL is on the list posted above, but there are very few details in the listing

 

[Scandium]

Hey 3 hrs away, bring cash offer and drive it home with the trailer, maybe even cut $1-2k off it if you show up with cash.

Heh, certainly tempting. But since I'm an inexperienced boat shopper (and owner) I'd want a survey in any case. Mainly for hugely expensive deck or bottom repairs I'd probably miss

I'd just drive down again for the survey and hopefully take it back with me then. If it is good I hope an offer of maybe $11k (cash, in a few weeks) wouldn't offend the owner.. With a 10 month old listing I can't imagine it would. I'll be curious to ask how much interest he's had

 

[rgranger]

The one in Florida and the one in Virginia are essentially the same price. The canvas on the Florida one looks more faded. But they do talk about some nice electronics. Also the one in Florida shows a dodger. Does the one in Virginia have a dodger?

On the other hand, the one in Virginia does talk about the trailer rebuild.... that is something to think about. What shape is the trailer on the one in Florida?

 

[Scandium]

The one in Florida and the one in Virginia are essentially the same price. The canvas on the Florida one looks more faded. But they do talk about some nice electronics. Also the one in Florida shows a dodger. Does the one in Virginia have a dodger?

On the other hand, the one in Virginia does talk about the trailer rebuild.... that is something to think about. What shape is the trailer on the one in Florida?

The ad don't say so I don't know. It's a 14 hr drive away so out of the question.

 

[twalker H260]

I would want to know axle weight rating on trailer. At 4500 for trailer and boat I suspect it is at or over the capacity of most single axle trailers, including the one shown in the sales listing. - not impossible -would just want to verify.
Photos appear to show 5 bolt rims which would normally imply 3000-3500lb axle. 5000& up to 7000lb axles are available but usually have 6 or 8 bolt rims.

If at or near capacity it may not be a major issue just pulling it a short distance then parking somewhere. For pulling long distance it could be extremely dangerous.

For comparison have a look at the factory trailers for the h26/260 linked to in the photo gallery here.

https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/album/album.php?task=model&mid=20

Weights are similar even though the 26/260 is larger due to it being water ballast - 3500lb dry weight with trailer at 8-900lbs.

 

[Scandium]

I would want to know axle weight rating on trailer. At 4500 for trailer and boat I suspect it is at or over the capacity of most single axle trailers, including the one shown in the sales listing. - not impossible -would just want to verify.
Photos appear to show 5 bolt rims which would normally imply 3000-3500lb axle. 5000& up to 7000lb axles are available but usually have 6 or 8 bolt rims.

If at or near capacity it may not be a major issue just pulling it a short distance then parking somewhere. For pulling long distance it could be extremely dangerous.

For comparison have a look at the factory trailers for the h26/260 linked to in the photo gallery here.

https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/album/album.php?task=model&mid=20

Weights are similar even though the 26/260 is larger due to it being water ballast - 3500lb dry weight with trailer at 8-900lbs.

Thanks, interesting points I hadn't thought much about. Didn't sound like the owner has towed it much so I'll see what he says.

But, the entry on sailboatdata.com gives the boat weight at 2700 lb, which is only 200 lb more than a Catalina 22, which I see on single axle trailers all the time time (which of course doesn't mean that's safe either). The hunter 2600 is almost 1000 lb heavier

My only towing at first would be getting up here, to Baltimore area, I guess that would be considered "long distance". Sounds like it would be a good idea to get outboard and whatever other heavy items into the car, and take it very slow. Don't know much else I could do. If the trailer is dangerously undersized it would be annoying longer term though if we'd want to take it for trips to say Rhode Island, a 6 hr drive. Having to get a new trailer is a pretty major expense. I'll do more research on what trailer others have for this boat
Thanks

 

[twalker H260]

I was basing things on the owners towing weight - not the published data. But. At 2700 lbs for boat, add 1-200 for motor, a few hundred for gear and whatever fuel and water it might carry it could be at the upper end of the axle. (Hitch weight (10-15%)+axle capacity is what normally trailer can carry in total. Subtract weight of boat, and trailer and you have a rough idea of what you have for gear/motor/fuel/water etc. )

Might be ok if it’s 3500lb axle. Marginal with a 3000lb.

 

[Simon Sexton]

Does that change what I need to look for?

Soft spots in the deck can occur even if the deck is solid fiberglass. I found this out the hard way...not fun!!

 

[LakeShark]

If your not towing across the country a few times a year I am sure the trailer will be ok. Most boat trailers have a 3500 lb axel. I have a fixed keel 22 (heaviest model they make) and I just replaced my axel because loaded with gear I was slightly over at 4000 lbs or so. I trailer everywhere so it was worth it to me. If I was staying within a few hundred miles of home I would not have bothered

 

[Scandium]

If your not towing across the country a few times a year I am sure the trailer will be ok. Most boat trailers have a 3500 lb axel. I have a fixed keel 22 (heaviest model they make) and I just replaced my axel because loaded with gear I was slightly over at 4000 lbs or so. I trailer everywhere so it was worth it to me. If I was staying within a few hundred miles of home I would not have bothered

Thanks, good to hear
Seems like there are lots of undersized trailers out there! I just saw a com-pac 23 for sale (3,000 lb displacement) with a single axle trailer :O

 

[Michael Davis]

I've built a few trailers using house trailer axels. Rated to 6000#

 

[LakeShark]

Thanks, good to hear
Seems like there are lots of undersized trailers out there! I just saw a com-pac 23 for sale (3,000 lb displacement) with a single axle trailer :O

That's pretty standard. With stiff springs you can get right up to axel weight. It's more a matter of annual miles towed and conditions. I live in a rural area with lots of gravel roads and trailer over an hour to my closest launch so that is why I upgraded. On most boat trailer the number of lug nuts will tell you the axel weight (or get you in a ball park)

5 lug pattern wheels =3500lb axel
6 lug pattern wheels = 6000lb axel
It goes up from there.

However the only way to know for sure is to measure the axel diameter for your self. I stuck with a single axel as it makes tight backing easie and at one ramp I use a lot in Pepin WI I have the trailer over 90deg to get backed in line with the ramp. The key is just to know what you want to do.

I love the Seward models and if I hade the money I likely would go after one. Let us know if you pull the trigger on this one.

 

[Gene Neill]

Just remember if you're looking at GVWR, you must subtract the weight of the trailer to get payload. My C22 trailer is single axle, rated 5000 lbs GVWR. But the trailer weighs 800lbs, so its payload capacity is only 4200 pounds.