Opinions on adding halyard winches w/ lines led aft

CloudDiver

CloudDiver

.
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
For those of you who have run your lines aft and installed cams or rope clutches on the cabin top;

I have noticed two schools of thought here. Some people have installed halyard winches, others have placed the clutches or cams as far aft as possible to have a good lead angle to the primary winches. What are your thoughts on the functionality (cost benefit) of the additional winches? How does the separation of duties break down between the primary winches and the added halyard winches?

I want to take this into consideration when mounting the rope clutches I plan to use (Spinlock XAS/3). I may not get the additional winches just yet, but I can mount the clutches farther forward of the proposed halyard winch location in anticipation of the future upgrade. How far forward of the winch would you recommend? My initial thought is as far forward from the winch as you can but still reasonably reach and operate the clutch from standing in the cockpit.

I've been looking for some used but in good condition Lewmar 7's, just missed out on a pair on ebay for $110, but there will always be more. My plan was to move the stock ARCO 6 pair up to the cabin top and use the Lewmar 7's as the primaries.
 
T_Cat

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
I saw those 7's also. Who would buy just one that that price?
 
piedpiperIII

piedpiperIII

.
Apr 26, 2010
434
catalina 22 lake tillery NC
Luke, my thought is that our sails are small enough to just hoist by hand then clutch off, would a winch be that more helpful? That's my opinion. I sailed my 89 for 5 years a lot with just clutches, there were cam cleats then I changed to the clutches. I loved it that way.
 
CloudDiver

CloudDiver

.
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
I had that though as well... Maybe in a sudden puff you might want the extra power to cinch a line, but it general sailing it would be faster to just heave the line rather than take the time to put turns round the winch and crank.

piedpiperIII said:
Luke, my thought is that our sails are small enough to just hoist by hand then clutch off, would a winch be that more helpful? That's my opinion. I sailed my 89 for 5 years a lot with just clutches, there were cam cleats then I changed to the clutches. I loved it that way.
Click to expand
 
W

watercolors II

.
Dec 23, 2008
771
Catalina 22 Central Penna.
I use my halyard winches about once every couple years, I sail once a week during a 6 mo. season on a small lake.
 
T_Cat

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
I probably have the least amount of experience but, we seemed to use them for the last couple of feet and while reefing.
 
Stu Jackson

Stu Jackson

.
Feb 26, 2004
23,081
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
We didn't even have clutches, just used the horn cleats on the cabintop. It was the very first thing we did for our C22 - bringing the halyards aft, and a jib downhaul.
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

.
Sep 30, 2013
3,602
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
Watercolors! said:
I use my halyard winches about once every couple years, I sail once a week during a 6 mo. season on a small lake.
Click to expand

I wish I could go sailing with you and see how you trim. I use my halyard winches every time I sail!
 
CloudDiver

CloudDiver

.
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Well, I see the general consensus is that they can be useful. I think my approach will be to set the clutches far enough forward to leave room for winches while giving a nice fair lead from the deck organizers. I can always put in the winches at a later time. Thanks for the pics AZ Guy, good visual reference.
 
T_Cat

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
I was thinking about just winches and regular cabin top cleats. Rope clutches are so expensive....
 
CloudDiver

CloudDiver

.
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Think about it, wouldn't work... When you have tension on the line you can't cleat it off if the cleat is forward of the winch and if the cleat is behind the winch you can't take the turns off the winch (which if you did would create slack). The most simple, yet slow method is to have the right size cleat for the line, put one turn round the horn and heave to... you'll tension the line with a slight mechanical advantage but its slow - no winch involved.

T_Cat said:
I was thinking about just winches and regular cabin top cleats. Rope clutches are so expensive....
Click to expand
 
T_Cat

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
If I don't need the winch for anything else I can cleat off the halyard aft of the winch. See "azguy" pictures from previous post
 
Doug4bass

Doug4bass

.
Jun 9, 2004
615
Catalina 385 Marquette. Mi
My '90 came with factory cabin top winches. I added double stoppers fwd of each winch and never looked backed. Used the winches to get the wrinkles out of the luffs, plus reefing. The winches allowed for that extra little bit of ooomph to trim the sails. The stoppers freed up the winches for last minute reefing, which seems to be a frequent occurrence up here on Gitche Gumme.
 
Last edited:
CloudDiver

CloudDiver

.
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Yes, totally true... but you limit your use of the winch to one sheet. This is doable I think, and again I am showing my lack of rigging knowledge but I do know that most people have at least 2 lines led aft on each side of the cabin top. Both of those lines on each side require tension but maybe one far more than the other. When you go with a triple deck organizer and allow for 3 lines on each side there is one of those lines that typically don't require as much tension as the others so you can get away with a cam cleat in an alternate location. I got that info from Stingy Sailor's write up on lines led aft. I would be cool if some more experienced C-22 sailor could summarize all 6 possible lines/sheets on a triple deck-organizer set up and note which ones are used most often and require greatest to least tension.
With that info I could say yes, just a winch alone you tension one sheet and cleat it off, but are you limiting yourself from tensioning another line on that side at the same time? Also, I was thinking that if it is true that one of the three lines on both sides are relatively low tension and seldom used I could go with double rope clutches instead of triples and then just use a cleat or cam for the low tension line. The double Spinlock units are about $45 cheaper than the triples.

Ha! I have so much to learn about lines & rigging! I am planning on taking my sailing course in June and they teach on C-22's so hopefully I will get this figured out one way or the other!

T_Cat said:
If I don't need the winch for anything else I can cleat off the halyard aft of the winch. See "azguy" pictures from previous post
Click to expand
 
T_Cat

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
I'm just learning myself. I believe the other lines would be for reefing, spinnaker, main and jib sheet downhauls . Any knowledgable owner what to help out?
 
hawk232

hawk232

.
Apr 1, 2010
398
Cal 33 and Sea Pearl 21 . Crystal River, FL
I cant imagine needing winches for more than 4 lines on a c22. both halyards and port/stbd sheets.

that being said, I would love to know how one gets true proper luff tension on the main without a winch?? In other threads I have posted here I have been told that "as designed by the sail maker" luff tension can not be accomplished without a winch. my boat has been down since I learned this info but in "yard sailing" the other day, I did as instructed. the difference was obvious. I was told to raise the sail all the way then put an extra 2-3" tension with the winch (there was a formula for how much tighter to go, but I don't remember it). let me see if I can find that thread...
 
Gene Neill

Gene Neill

.
Sep 30, 2013
3,602
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
I often can't get the upper telltales on my headsail to act right without a winch, either.

And while I'm not as strong as Hawk232 (no one is!) I'm not exactly a weakling, either.
 
hawk232

hawk232

.
Apr 1, 2010
398
Cal 33 and Sea Pearl 21 . Crystal River, FL
Gene Neill said:
I often can't get the upper telltales on my headsail to act right without a winch, either.

And while I'm not as strong as Hawk232 (no one is!) I'm not exactly a weakling, either.
Click to expand
it doesn't come easily... lots of 12oz weight lifting!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom