Trying to decide which boat to pursue. We have looked at a 40 ft. 1983 Endeavour with 5 foot draft and a 36 ft. 1990 Catalina wing keel with 4.5 ft. draft. The Catalina would need air installed. Both boats are in good condition and about the same price. We sail coastal on Gulf Coast in Florida, Dry Tortugas and thinking about Bahamas. We have sailiing experience and just sold an Endeavour 32. What are some opinions on the 2 boats?
Opinions on 2 different boats
- Thread starter Kayamore
- Start date
Kayamore,
It's been my experience that engineering, design, materials, construction techniques, performance & equipment layout differed between boats built in the early '80's as opposed to boats built in the '90's. Not all boat manufacturers are created equal & there are exceptions. Remember, buying a boat is about compromise. All boats will have features you wished were on the other boats you're looking at.
What I would look for first, would be condition, performance, layout, ease & comfort, mech/elec. access for maintenance & what boat "Feels Right".
Personally, I would lean towards the Catalina, not because I have a C30, but because of the wing keel. I had the opportunity of transporting a Newport 30 winged keel almost 150 miles overnight. The conditions were rough, seas high & confused. I know how my fin keel reacts in rough seas off the beam & hind quarters.
The wing seemed to dampen rolling, lurching & stern roll-out tendencies in seas & wind. Once back, we went out sailing. A new 34 ft. racing boat w/4-man crew was out practicing. They even wore matching attire. They decided to pick on us. Len only had a 135 jib & a nice full battened main. We beat them on two legs of sail. So, I think of my fin keel as Chevy compact with bad shocks & springs vs. the wing keel which handled like driving a Cadillac CTS.
I know I am gonna take some hits for this.
CR
It's been my experience that engineering, design, materials, construction techniques, performance & equipment layout differed between boats built in the early '80's as opposed to boats built in the '90's. Not all boat manufacturers are created equal & there are exceptions. Remember, buying a boat is about compromise. All boats will have features you wished were on the other boats you're looking at.
What I would look for first, would be condition, performance, layout, ease & comfort, mech/elec. access for maintenance & what boat "Feels Right".
Personally, I would lean towards the Catalina, not because I have a C30, but because of the wing keel. I had the opportunity of transporting a Newport 30 winged keel almost 150 miles overnight. The conditions were rough, seas high & confused. I know how my fin keel reacts in rough seas off the beam & hind quarters.
The wing seemed to dampen rolling, lurching & stern roll-out tendencies in seas & wind. Once back, we went out sailing. A new 34 ft. racing boat w/4-man crew was out practicing. They even wore matching attire. They decided to pick on us. Len only had a 135 jib & a nice full battened main. We beat them on two legs of sail. So, I think of my fin keel as Chevy compact with bad shocks & springs vs. the wing keel which handled like driving a Cadillac CTS.
I know I am gonna take some hits for this.
CR
I don't know Ron. That sounded like an informed review of a wing keel that I haven't heard. Interesting.
I have a Catalina 34 wing keel and it is a great sailor. I picked the wing keel for this coast. I have been aground a time or two here in SW florida and have always been able to get unstuck without towboat us or sea tow. I usually go slowly as i approach shallows so i don't bury the keel. However if you go hard aground in any boat you will likely have a bigger problem. I sail the same area you are considering and am pleased with my pick. The 36 and the 34 are a lot alike. Catalina makes a fine boat with a lot of thought in it. Parts and a great internet owners site for self help and repair are two other good reasons to pick a Catalina.
For seakindliness I would prefer the endeavor. For sailing thin water, the Catalina. I've always regarded wing keels as a fad. But I do admit that they get the ballast down low, as a bulb would. The bulb creates less drag.
I never found that the wings on my H356 made groundings that much worse. It's true you can't heel your way out of it. But we had few groundings and never had to call Sea Tow. I guess we just subscribe to the bump and roll technique.
I never found that the wings on my H356 made groundings that much worse. It's true you can't heel your way out of it. But we had few groundings and never had to call Sea Tow. I guess we just subscribe to the bump and roll technique.
Check the mast step on the Endeavor well. This is the one thing that I have heard about their keel stepped masts.
The Catalina is 7 years newer than the Endeavor.
The Endeavor is 4 feet bigger which means more expense in boat bucks. That 4 feet makes a big difference over time.
Make a list of Pros and Cons for each boat. Compare and then it should make it easier to figure out.
The Catalina is 7 years newer than the Endeavor.
The Endeavor is 4 feet bigger which means more expense in boat bucks. That 4 feet makes a big difference over time.
Make a list of Pros and Cons for each boat. Compare and then it should make it easier to figure out.
I believe that Endeavors are known for solid construction techniques, but are bit slower,
as accommodations below were of higher importance then performance. But 40 feet is truly the desired length for most live aboard couple's when cruising. The C 36 is comparable in accommodations, & may be a bit more spritely in performance. But theoretically the longer water line of the Endeavor should create more potential speed then the Catalina. I believe that Endeavors are popular in Florida, as they are more of a long keel, shallow draft design for their length. Most are almost full keel, with a partial cutaway at the aft end of the keel & a full skeg hung rudder, so pretty durable & sea kindly, but they will not point as high into the wind.
While I own a Catalina, & do love them, they tend to be built on the lighter side, with less beefy chain plates, rigging, stanchions, & the rub rail covered hull to deck joints are particularly prone to damage from impact, etc. If the Endeavor comes with slotted aluminum toe rail deck joinery then that is a big plus.
But another thing to consider is that yachts of this size are a real investment, & Catalinas are popular, attractive, easy to sail, & even easier to sell when the time comes.
All things to consider.
as accommodations below were of higher importance then performance. But 40 feet is truly the desired length for most live aboard couple's when cruising. The C 36 is comparable in accommodations, & may be a bit more spritely in performance. But theoretically the longer water line of the Endeavor should create more potential speed then the Catalina. I believe that Endeavors are popular in Florida, as they are more of a long keel, shallow draft design for their length. Most are almost full keel, with a partial cutaway at the aft end of the keel & a full skeg hung rudder, so pretty durable & sea kindly, but they will not point as high into the wind.
While I own a Catalina, & do love them, they tend to be built on the lighter side, with less beefy chain plates, rigging, stanchions, & the rub rail covered hull to deck joints are particularly prone to damage from impact, etc. If the Endeavor comes with slotted aluminum toe rail deck joinery then that is a big plus.
But another thing to consider is that yachts of this size are a real investment, & Catalinas are popular, attractive, easy to sail, & even easier to sell when the time comes.
All things to consider.
I sailed an Endeavor 47 ketch all around SW Florida, Dry Tortugas, Key West and all over the Bahamas for several years. I think most Endeavors in the Florida area were sold by Russell Wakefield, who is long out of the business and retired. The 5' keel won't be a problem. When you are going to spend a lot of time on board a boat, you have to look more deeply into it than what has been discussed above. You have to think about longer distant cruising and living on board. So, you need living space, places to stow items that aren't taking up living space and you need to have an engine fuel capacity to motor you long distances if you have no wind. You have to have enough water to take care of your needs between fill ups. Holding tank capacity is important if sailing in coastal waters, but obviously you can dump over board off shore. You have to have ice box/refrigeration capacity to keep your food cold for longer periods of time and a freezer is nice too. A genset is a great thing to have for longer distant cruising. As for electronics, a good chart plotter, VHF and even radar are handy things to have, but of course you can add them to any boat that doesn't have them. Sailing off shore, in the gulf stream, etc. can be difficult sometimes and so it is good to have a boat that can take tough conditions. That means, scuppers large enough to get rid of water quickly in the cockpit, bridge deck so water doesn't pour down in your cabin, good strong ports that can with stand smashing seas, windows that open for good cross ventilation, as well as hatches, nice deep bilges are nice for keeping water from sloshing around in your cabin sole. Bigger boats need windlasses for bringing in lots of heavy chain and big anchors to suit. Endeavors are built tough and are designed for offshore conditions. Catalinas are nice boats, but certainly not built as robust, aren't as heavily displaced, don't usually have large fuel or water tanks, don't have lots of places for storage and often are classified as coastal cruisers and not offshore (but various models may differ). Also, you have to think about the inboard and the horsepower to push the boat in extreme conditions. Many production boats have barely adequate inboards for coastal or inland use and some will offer engine upgrades for more bucks that really bring the HP up to what you really want for offshore use (and some mfg don't which means you are underpowered). So, please consider the things that matter.