This weekend I'm going to "test sail" a Hunter 170. I'm looking for advice on what to buy. Also looking at the Hunter 140, Catalina 16.5 & 14.2, Precision 15, and American14.6. I'm looking for a "easy to learn" craft, (if there is such a thing), I don't need speed right now, I need a stable (not easy to tip) boat, until I learn all the ropes, the boat will float on a small inland lake. Reading this message you people probably guessed I'm a novice. I am indeed a TOTAL novice, but really want to get into this sport. Thanx, John
opinions for a "Nubee"
- Thread starter joau43
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I started
with an International 420 - a 14' boat that i trailered to various lakes in upstate NY. I've sailed the American 14.6 and found it too sluggish even for a novice. I now have a Hunter 26 and can handle it because of my small boat experiences. I love the Hunter designs and look. I'd vote for the 170. Believe me, you'll love some speed after your second or third time out.
with an International 420 - a 14' boat that i trailered to various lakes in upstate NY. I've sailed the American 14.6 and found it too sluggish even for a novice. I now have a Hunter 26 and can handle it because of my small boat experiences. I love the Hunter designs and look. I'd vote for the 170. Believe me, you'll love some speed after your second or third time out.
See Boat Information on this site
Welcome to the world of sailing. You'll have a great time. Check out Boat Information on this web site, and select the H170. There are many reviews of this boat, and most talk about it's stability.
Welcome to the world of sailing. You'll have a great time. Check out Boat Information on this web site, and select the H170. There are many reviews of this boat, and most talk about it's stability.
140 versus 170???
Joau, Welcome to the group! If you choose to become a 'member of the Hunter owners family' you'll find great stuff here in the future as you progress. The 140 is a much smaller boat than the 170, I believe (the 170 will hold three or four adults (some would say AT LEAST) in fine style and I don't think the 140 has that same comfort/size zone. The 140 might have more (relative) initial stability than the 170 (that is the 170 might heel more abruptly and steeply when first blasted with a puff of breeze) but the 170 sets up nice on a 10, 15, even 20 degree heel and only inspires one from there. Again, the 140 has a much smaller sailplan (it's all relative), so might not excite quite like the larger but very responsive 170. I could, however, see the 140 planing really nicely, much like a Laser when really in the groove--in 15-20mph breezes-- say on a broad reach or run. I've never hit Laser-like nirvana on my 170 (planing) but she's taken my breath away plenty of times- and all that in a 17' "family daysailer". ;0) This boat's more like a mutant/giant Laser. The Catalinas mentioned and Precision are nice boats...perhaps a bit more stable, but they WON'T turn the heads of other sailors and even stinkpotters like a 170, if you're into the whole vanity thing. Being that you sail inland on a smaller body of water, you might enjoy the 170's quick response to those blimy breeze shifts. Also, I've ghosted my 170 past 16 to 19 foot daysailers nearby when NO apparent breeze was seen on the lake (GLASS!) and I can't explain how she even moved a muscle, but it was something else! You could hear a stalled sailor's wife nearby say, "Ooo, (well maybe not the Ooo part but) "An h170.... Hunter...hmmmm" This boat is very sensitive to the breeze's every call. That said, it can be a handful when stuff really gets going. If you go with the 170, you will want to opt for a Hobie float or "football" on the masthead (top of the mast) of your rig-- since you stated upfront you're a newbie, I'm going to go out there and recommend the 'ball. This will prevent you turning turtle if you capsize and can't get her to wind and sheeted-out before she turns all the way over, completely upside down--- at which time--- I'm told (haven't tipped mine, yet- heh heh) you will likely need the assist of at least one powerboat to right her. Best of luck on your decision. You won't ever go wrong with the 170- but there are many fine boats out there that you mention-- go with the heart (and wallet). Mike G. Alachua, FL
Joau, Welcome to the group! If you choose to become a 'member of the Hunter owners family' you'll find great stuff here in the future as you progress. The 140 is a much smaller boat than the 170, I believe (the 170 will hold three or four adults (some would say AT LEAST) in fine style and I don't think the 140 has that same comfort/size zone. The 140 might have more (relative) initial stability than the 170 (that is the 170 might heel more abruptly and steeply when first blasted with a puff of breeze) but the 170 sets up nice on a 10, 15, even 20 degree heel and only inspires one from there. Again, the 140 has a much smaller sailplan (it's all relative), so might not excite quite like the larger but very responsive 170. I could, however, see the 140 planing really nicely, much like a Laser when really in the groove--in 15-20mph breezes-- say on a broad reach or run. I've never hit Laser-like nirvana on my 170 (planing) but she's taken my breath away plenty of times- and all that in a 17' "family daysailer". ;0) This boat's more like a mutant/giant Laser. The Catalinas mentioned and Precision are nice boats...perhaps a bit more stable, but they WON'T turn the heads of other sailors and even stinkpotters like a 170, if you're into the whole vanity thing. Being that you sail inland on a smaller body of water, you might enjoy the 170's quick response to those blimy breeze shifts. Also, I've ghosted my 170 past 16 to 19 foot daysailers nearby when NO apparent breeze was seen on the lake (GLASS!) and I can't explain how she even moved a muscle, but it was something else! You could hear a stalled sailor's wife nearby say, "Ooo, (well maybe not the Ooo part but) "An h170.... Hunter...hmmmm" This boat is very sensitive to the breeze's every call. That said, it can be a handful when stuff really gets going. If you go with the 170, you will want to opt for a Hobie float or "football" on the masthead (top of the mast) of your rig-- since you stated upfront you're a newbie, I'm going to go out there and recommend the 'ball. This will prevent you turning turtle if you capsize and can't get her to wind and sheeted-out before she turns all the way over, completely upside down--- at which time--- I'm told (haven't tipped mine, yet- heh heh) you will likely need the assist of at least one powerboat to right her. Best of luck on your decision. You won't ever go wrong with the 170- but there are many fine boats out there that you mention-- go with the heart (and wallet). Mike G. Alachua, FL
My Opinion?
Every time I see Precision out on the bay of any size I am blown away by how well they sail, track, and how damn fast they are. My personal level of minimun civilization is an enclosed head. Slow gets old very soon. Stability in a non-keel boat is prety much up to you, and again, I've never seen a Precision out on the water look like it was out of control.
Every time I see Precision out on the bay of any size I am blown away by how well they sail, track, and how damn fast they are. My personal level of minimun civilization is an enclosed head. Slow gets old very soon. Stability in a non-keel boat is prety much up to you, and again, I've never seen a Precision out on the water look like it was out of control.
Sam, nice Precision info-- what sizes appear fast
Sam, Nice comments on Precisions as a possible choice. Which size Precisions appear 'damned fast'? Are you talking about the 15 or the 185, or a larger one still? I'm eventually going to move up to a boat with a head (if not enclosed) and like the Precision 23 keel/c-b hybrid as a contender. Have you seen one of these in action (or another larger sized Precision (trailerable cruiser)? Thanks, Mike G.
Sam, Nice comments on Precisions as a possible choice. Which size Precisions appear 'damned fast'? Are you talking about the 15 or the 185, or a larger one still? I'm eventually going to move up to a boat with a head (if not enclosed) and like the Precision 23 keel/c-b hybrid as a contender. Have you seen one of these in action (or another larger sized Precision (trailerable cruiser)? Thanks, Mike G.
Used 170s
Should be able to, Joau-- My used '99 was in great condition (I think this demographic of sailor--heck most of 'em) really babies their boats. You might expect to pay as little as 4 grand for a nice, used 170. Mike G.
Should be able to, Joau-- My used '99 was in great condition (I think this demographic of sailor--heck most of 'em) really babies their boats. You might expect to pay as little as 4 grand for a nice, used 170. Mike G.
Precision specific boats?
I have no recolection of specific sizes when viewing Precisions under way. Just a general impression. We have an abundance of wind on most summer afternoons on Barnegay Bay, more often than not running 15 to 20 nnots and more. Often more. (The excess wind makes up for the lack of water!) I've seen precisions out in that often and appearing to be having no trouble at all. I haven't sailed one so I can't speak at all on actual characteristics, just on visual impression. If I had room for another boat I'd be looking for one. I think a Hunter 33, a Macgregor 25, Sunfish, Pelican 10' dinghy and a few others is almost enough.
I have no recolection of specific sizes when viewing Precisions under way. Just a general impression. We have an abundance of wind on most summer afternoons on Barnegay Bay, more often than not running 15 to 20 nnots and more. Often more. (The excess wind makes up for the lack of water!) I've seen precisions out in that often and appearing to be having no trouble at all. I haven't sailed one so I can't speak at all on actual characteristics, just on visual impression. If I had room for another boat I'd be looking for one. I think a Hunter 33, a Macgregor 25, Sunfish, Pelican 10' dinghy and a few others is almost enough.
170--- sounds like a windy spot in Jersey...
Sam, That's some strong breeze you've got on your bay. 15-20k is more than enough breeze for a 170, for example. I'd be running my 170 with reefed main only at 15 to 20 knots. I generally reef the main around 13knots sustained & have to put the jib away much above 15knots. How does your MacGregor 25 do in a 20k breeze? I've always thought that that whole water-ballast thing (although allowing easier trailering with a smaller vehicle) couldn't possibly hold a candle close to a good old lead keel in a blow. To veer somewhat off topic, I want to share the fact that while on vacation in northern Minnesota a couple weeks ago, I actually reefed my Laser's sail because the breeze was 15-20k sustained, with gusts probably around 25 or more!!!! One of those days where sailors DIDN'T go because it was "too" windy. I was the only sailboat out that day! I wrapped the sail around the mast (the Laser sail's a slip-over-the-mast, not a halyard job) several times, making the sail more manageable. Even hiking out the entire time I still wouldn't have been able to control the fullsailed Laser in that wind! And my abs and legs would have absolutely given out! I was hiked way out half the time as it was (reefed). For my part I only capsized once (an accidental gybe on a run) and planed MANY times while reaching. Talk about excitement! Mike G.
Sam, That's some strong breeze you've got on your bay. 15-20k is more than enough breeze for a 170, for example. I'd be running my 170 with reefed main only at 15 to 20 knots. I generally reef the main around 13knots sustained & have to put the jib away much above 15knots. How does your MacGregor 25 do in a 20k breeze? I've always thought that that whole water-ballast thing (although allowing easier trailering with a smaller vehicle) couldn't possibly hold a candle close to a good old lead keel in a blow. To veer somewhat off topic, I want to share the fact that while on vacation in northern Minnesota a couple weeks ago, I actually reefed my Laser's sail because the breeze was 15-20k sustained, with gusts probably around 25 or more!!!! One of those days where sailors DIDN'T go because it was "too" windy. I was the only sailboat out that day! I wrapped the sail around the mast (the Laser sail's a slip-over-the-mast, not a halyard job) several times, making the sail more manageable. Even hiking out the entire time I still wouldn't have been able to control the fullsailed Laser in that wind! And my abs and legs would have absolutely given out! I was hiked way out half the time as it was (reefed). For my part I only capsized once (an accidental gybe on a run) and planed MANY times while reaching. Talk about excitement! Mike G.
MacGregor 25 - WAY off subject
How is the Mac 25 in a stiff breeze? In a word: Not so great. There is only a rudimentary attempt to provide reefing on the main and that is a system to roll up the main on the boom. You end up with a baggy mess that's just as bad as the full sail. In addition there is no traveler for the main sheet so you can't get any relief there. In actuality this my second Mac 25. The first was sold to make room for a larger keel boat with a more shallow draft. Purchased last fall, I haven't had time to mess with this one yet. Had it out twice last fall, made note of the stuff needing work and parked it. Now that the Hunter 33 is finaly back in the water after new Stainless ports, pedestal mounted instrument cluster, moving the head stay forward 18", mounting and plumbing in a custom holding tank, and a raft of other jobs I might be able to put some time into the Mac. One thing I do remember from the first one (10m years ago) is that the mast shook very badly when the wind kicked up. I'll have to see if this one does it and if so figure out what to do about it. By the way, the Mac 25 was a cast iron swing keelNice and deep for stability, but unfortunately kiond of deep for a shallow bay like Barnegat. My wife had to learn all about cranking up the keel! It's good for her upper arms!
How is the Mac 25 in a stiff breeze? In a word: Not so great. There is only a rudimentary attempt to provide reefing on the main and that is a system to roll up the main on the boom. You end up with a baggy mess that's just as bad as the full sail. In addition there is no traveler for the main sheet so you can't get any relief there. In actuality this my second Mac 25. The first was sold to make room for a larger keel boat with a more shallow draft. Purchased last fall, I haven't had time to mess with this one yet. Had it out twice last fall, made note of the stuff needing work and parked it. Now that the Hunter 33 is finaly back in the water after new Stainless ports, pedestal mounted instrument cluster, moving the head stay forward 18", mounting and plumbing in a custom holding tank, and a raft of other jobs I might be able to put some time into the Mac. One thing I do remember from the first one (10m years ago) is that the mast shook very badly when the wind kicked up. I'll have to see if this one does it and if so figure out what to do about it. By the way, the Mac 25 was a cast iron swing keelNice and deep for stability, but unfortunately kiond of deep for a shallow bay like Barnegat. My wife had to learn all about cranking up the keel! It's good for her upper arms!
Love the 146
I chose the 146 last year. Very close in characteristics to the 170, though I hear far more stories about turtling in the 170 than in the 146. It is eminently manageable - I can confidently single-hand it, but can hold 4 people comfortably, maybe more if some are kids. Super easy to trailer and rig. Good luck!
I chose the 146 last year. Very close in characteristics to the 170, though I hear far more stories about turtling in the 170 than in the 146. It is eminently manageable - I can confidently single-hand it, but can hold 4 people comfortably, maybe more if some are kids. Super easy to trailer and rig. Good luck!
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