Opening passageway to forward compartment

[davidmhull]

I have an Oday 22 that I am refurbishing. The opening leading to the forward compartment is really too small for me to safely navigate. This is one of the first models with the sink on the starboard side forward of the bulkhead. I'm going to pull out the sink as I don't need/want it. I would like to open up the the bulkhead a bit so I can go forward a easier. I know there is a center cabin support right under the mast and that seems to be the only consideration other then the chainplates which are bolted to the bulkhead as well. Does it seem possible to remove the cabin overhead support somehow and widen the opening? What I am thinking about is some kind of arch supported on both sides so it would still support the downward force of the mast. Has anyone thought about this or done it? Thanks.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

I had a 1980 22. The sink was before the bulkhead on the port side. I temporarily removed the bulkhead to refinish it. I mention this because I had to use a bottle jack to slightly raise the cabin roof. I was then able to remove the bulkhead and post.

You could probably model the bulkhead like the 222 model. It has more of an open plan. Search pictures of the 222 and see if the setup would work for you.

 

[davidmhull]

Thanks spooled again. Will do.

 

[pfschmid]

I have a '74 O'Day 22. I had the sink on the port side aft of the bulkheads. I removed the sink and cabinet and moved the port berth ahead. As far as widening the opening, The compression post has to stay where it is (under the mast). The starboard bulkhead can be trimmed back a little. I took an inch off mine to widen the opening to 17". Remember that your side stay chain plates are anchored to those bulkheads. When I did my alterations, I removed both bulkheads and fabricated new ones using ½" red oak plywood. I used a two part epoxy thinned with acetone to penetrate and coat the edges of the plywood and prevent any water intrusion. I am installing a new sink forward of the starboard bulkhead. I like having a sink. I will also have a cutting board (sink cover) and stove. We overnight sometimes, away from our marina so we need those amenities. I moved my porta-potty from forward of the port bulkhead to center under a hinged cover in the v-berth. I have a small ac/dc fridge placed forward of the port bulkhead with a low cabinet under it. I know it sounds like a lot, but my cabin is roomier than the original layout. Good luck with your renovations (always keep the structural integrity in mind) and enjoy your sailing.

Pete S.

 

[pfschmid]

I have a '74 O'Day 22. I had the sink on the port side aft of the bulkheads. I removed the sink and cabinet and moved the port berth ahead. As far as widening the opening, The compression post has to stay where it is (under the mast). The starboard bulkhead can be trimmed back a little. I took an inch off mine to widen the opening to 17". Remember that your side stay chain plates are anchored to those bulkheads. When I did my alterations, I removed both bulkheads and fabricated new ones using ½" red oak plywood. I used a two part epoxy thinned with acetone to penetrate and coat the edges of the plywood and prevent any water intrusion. I am installing a new sink forward of the starboard bulkhead. I like having a sink. I will also have a cutting board (sink cover) and stove. We overnight sometimes, away from our marina so we need those amenities. I moved my porta-potty from forward of the port bulkhead to center under a hinged cover in the v-berth. I have a small ac/dc fridge placed forward of the port bulkhead with a low cabinet under it. I know it sounds like a lot, but my cabin is roomier than the original layout. An arched beam sounds interesting and I think it would be possible to fabricate one capable of supporting the mast. Good luck with your renovations, (always keep the structural integrity in mind) and enjoy your sailing.
Pete S.

 

[davidmhull]

I realize that I have to have something substantial under the mast step but I would like to change the arrangement which is now probably due to ease of construction and economy. Support is support no matter how it is engineered. I am not an engineer but I would assume two pillars with a curved bridge across the top of the proper design would give the same level of support for the mast step. The thing I'm not sure about is how the bottom of the present support post is supported. Is it all the way to the keel? Would the cabin floor support two posts on either side of the keel or would a plate need to be installed to bridge the keel as well as the overhead? I could construct a very strong rectangle that would set on the cabin floor and be slightly arched at the top. I wouldn't mind stepping over a floor plate as long as the opening between the uprights was adequate. I am looking for ideas to widen the opening about a foot overall. I would even be willing to fabricate a rectangle out of stainless steel if necessary. The remaining bulkhead would be bolted to the rectangle on either side. In my mind this should not affect the integrity of the chain plates. I'm looking for practical knowledge from someone who may have attempted this and could point out any pitfalls. Thanks so much for your feedback guys.

 

[Hydro Therapy]

The support goes from cabin top to floor. It doesn't go to the keel.
If you go into my profile/pictures I think I have a few shots that shows the support. The support is a piece of vertical trim the attaches to the edge of the port side bulkhead.

 

[Brian S]

Davidmhull,

My advice to you: get a professional.

There was a guy who was restoring a Pearson Commander. His whole restoration is captured here: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?1972-Commander-147 He decided he wanted to eliminate the compression post. He thought he would build an arch under the cabin roof. Then, he went to a marine architect, and found that the scantlings for the arch would be far bigger than he expected, even using a carbon fiber layup.

So, if you wanted to add your own arch to replace a mast step, it's quite likely that it needs to be engineered more than you expect, unless you are a structural engineer and have correctly measured the forces in play. I'm not saying don't do it, I'm just saying get some professional help to do it right.

I know another person who wanted to make a sport boat out of a West Wight Potter. She wanted a powerful rig with a retractable sprit to run a Code 0, and to make maximum use of the semi-planing hull of the WWP19. But, she is also a sail designer, and she knows what she doesn't know. She had marine architect Jim Antrim design a stainless steel lead bulbed lifting keel to handle the big Code 0, and also design a properly laid up daggerboard trunk in the boat. (As well as a removable gantry to lift the dang thing.) She had a lot of help from International Marine, the WWP builder, in this custom build. In the end, she's very happy with the performance, and loves chasing down far bigger boats. But the point is, she enlisted the services of a marine architect to properly design this custom build for her.

 

[Richard19068]

Davidmhull,


I know another person who wanted to make a sport boat out of a West Wight Potter. She wanted a powerful rig with a retractable sprit to run a Code 0, and to make maximum use of the semi-planing hull of the WWP19. But, she is also a sail designer, and she knows what she doesn't know. She had marine architect Jim Antrim design a stainless steel lead bulbed lifting keel to handle the big Code 0, and also design a properly laid up daggerboard trunk in the boat. (As well as a removable gantry to lift the dang thing.) She had a lot of help from International Marine, the WWP builder, in this custom build. In the end, she's very happy with the performance, and loves chasing down far bigger boats. But the point is, she enlisted the services of a marine architect to properly design this custom build for her.

That sounds wild. Any links to pictures of that boat? Sorry for the hijack.

 

[Brian S]

Richard, here are some links to the West Wight Potter Sport 19 "hot rod":

There's a good pic here: http://forum.trailersailor.com/post_gb.php?id=1356059#1356059

And a video in this thread, along with some design discussion: http://forum.trailersailor.com/post_gb.php?id=1278090#1278090

Judy is working with Jim Antrim on a removable sugar scoop stern to get the length over 20 feet, so she can race PHRF. They estimate it'll go over 11 knots with the scoop. Although I don't know how far she's got with that project, between being busy and buying a J70.

If you search around on the WWP Trailer Sailer's forum, you'll find lots of info about that hot rod.

 

[davidmhull]

I do have some help with designing this but there are some unknowns. My son is a mechanical engineer and I asked him what he thought. He said he thought that a rectangle made from 2"X2" stainless tubing with a .060" wall would probably suffice but the unknown is how much force is actually applied to the deck from the mast step. He based his estimate on how much force the post will support now and how it was attached to the overhead. We have to assume that if it was strong enough to begin with we just have to make sure it is at least that strong again. A vertical post has a tremendous amount of support capacity. I think I will need to go for a no brainer overkill on this since I don't have any way to measure the vertical forces from the mast easily. He said he would either water jet out a piece for the arch or roll the square tubing to match the overhead radius. Cost is not an issue since someone at the company that my son works for will make this up on their lunch break for nothing. I was hoping someone had made something out of wood to replace the center post and could tell me what they used and how it worked. I just like the idea of wood better for something in the cabin. I was guessing 3"X3" white oak for the support. Mechanical engineers don't work with wood much so I need someone who is a boat builder to ask. Thanks so much for the replies.