Okay folks, Who in the group has opened up their rudder? I have cracks up the sides and I know water has had to be getting into the ribs. Any pictures out there in Vega Land? Please advise. Thanks,Larry Sent from Windows Mail
Open up the Rudder:
- Thread starter lewills30
- Start date
Hello Marcin, Well you are right on this... what a dirty, nasty... makes no sense why they built the rudder this way. I to run into all the some resin and sand, sand, foam, epoxy and I think someone’s underwear. Mine too was cracked all the way around the edges of the rudder. It was the epoxy that had out lived its life. I got a detail from Steve and one of the other guys on how to build your own rudder. Well seeing that the ribs, or spars showed up on this detail, it changed the whole way to repair the rudder. Locating the braces inside the rudder, one does not have to cut the rudder in half. Open up the leading edge at the weld point, reweld and repair inspection holes. I did hour glass cuts in the existing seam on all edges and refilled with West Systems 6/10 epoxy. I will fair the rudder and reglass with CSM, if I have clearance, I will layup 1708 and fair the rudder for water barrier. The other thing I did was around the rudder shaft on each end I reset the existing epoxy and fiber glass about 3/8” deep as a seal around the shaft. Filling it once again with West Systems 6/10 epoxy, looks like a great seal. I will let it cure for a few days and pull the clamps and sand to shape. I did get an idea in all of this though, I think when I get some free time I am going to build a complete new rudder. I think a alum. rudder might be very interesting for this boat. Well thanks for the help. Larry Sent from Windows Mail From: Marcin PalaczSent: Saturday, October 5, 2013 12:07 PMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Hi,
Hi,
Larry, Be careful! You will have three
dissimilar materials in the stern area close together. The
aluminum will be the least knoble if the three and could be a real
electrolysis problem. If you use copper paint on the bottom you
will have to tributaltin or some otherpaint that is compatable
with aluminumon the rudder. There may even be a probllem the
copper paint on the hull and the aluminum rudder even if you using
a compatible paint on the rudder. I would not do it with out
getting help with someone that really knows about electrolysis. I
suspect the rudder was built the way it was, was to get neutral
buoyancy so the weight of the rudder would not create steering
problems. The Vegas were amazingly well engineered. Doug
dissimilar materials in the stern area close together. The
aluminum will be the least knoble if the three and could be a real
electrolysis problem. If you use copper paint on the bottom you
will have to tributaltin or some otherpaint that is compatable
with aluminumon the rudder. There may even be a probllem the
copper paint on the hull and the aluminum rudder even if you using
a compatible paint on the rudder. I would not do it with out
getting help with someone that really knows about electrolysis. I
suspect the rudder was built the way it was, was to get neutral
buoyancy so the weight of the rudder would not create steering
problems. The Vegas were amazingly well engineered. Doug
Hi Doug, I would treat the alum. rudder in a number of ways. I could power coat it, fiber-glass it. or use an epoxy paint to seal the area of the rudder. I can also fill the void with resin and sand if weight is needed or foam if I am needing to lighten the rudder to match the weight of the existing rudder. Just some thoughts. But, I was able to repair my Vega rudder and might be done with the rudder business. It was not a fun task, but it had to be done. What I found and if not fixed, it could of left me with out a rudder at a very bad time. You know Doug, if a guy built a mount on the stern to attach a spare junk style rudder ( might not be a bad idea.) Make a rudder in two pieces, slide it together , drop into the mount and keep sailing. If you have a total rudder failure, what can you do in rough seas? I am thinking to much...LOL. Larry Sent from Windows Mail From: Douglas PollardSent: ?Saturday?, ?October? ?5?, ?2013 ?8?:?30? ?PMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Larry, Be careful! You will have three
dissimilar materials in the stern area close together. The
aluminum will be the least knoble if the three and could be a real
electrolysis problem. If you use copper paint on the bottom you
will have to tributaltin or some otherpaint that is compatable
with aluminumon the rudder. There may even be a probllem the
copper paint on the hull and the aluminum rudder even if you using
a compatible paint on the rudder. I would not do it with out
getting help with someone that really knows about electrolysis. I
suspect the rudder was built the way it was, was to get neutral
buoyancy so the weight of the rudder would not create steering
problems. The Vegas were amazingly well engineered. Doug
Larry, Be careful! You will have three
dissimilar materials in the stern area close together. The
aluminum will be the least knoble if the three and could be a real
electrolysis problem. If you use copper paint on the bottom you
will have to tributaltin or some otherpaint that is compatable
with aluminumon the rudder. There may even be a probllem the
copper paint on the hull and the aluminum rudder even if you using
a compatible paint on the rudder. I would not do it with out
getting help with someone that really knows about electrolysis. I
suspect the rudder was built the way it was, was to get neutral
buoyancy so the weight of the rudder would not create steering
problems. The Vegas were amazingly well engineered. Doug
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that
their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several
thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the
design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder
will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I
know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one
powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great
material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to
be aware of it's limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail.
Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am
saying that just about all of us myself included don't. When
driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the
boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive
that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower
ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the
bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that
the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old
design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that
time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under
extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where
rudders even stall and loose control.
I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a
50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a
reminder to me to ease up a little.
Doug
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that
their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several
thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the
design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder
will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I
know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one
powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great
material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to
be aware of it's limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail.
Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am
saying that just about all of us myself included don't. When
driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the
boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive
that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower
ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the
bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that
the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old
design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that
time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under
extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where
rudders even stall and loose control.
I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a
50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a
reminder to me to ease up a little.
Doug
Well Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean. You are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega. I had the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I will be in good shape when I am done. Thanks for the help Doug.Larry Sent from Windows Mail From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that
their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several
thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the
design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder
will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I
know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one
powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great
material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to
be aware of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail.
Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am
saying that just about all of us myself included don\'t. When
driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the
boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive
that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower
ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the
bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that
the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old
design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that
time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under
extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where
rudders even stall and loose control.
I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a
50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a
reminder to me to ease up a little.
Doug
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that
their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several
thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the
design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder
will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I
know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one
powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great
material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to
be aware of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail.
Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am
saying that just about all of us myself included don\'t. When
driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the
boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive
that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower
ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the
bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that
the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old
design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that
time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under
extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where
rudders even stall and loose control.
I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a
50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a
reminder to me to ease up a little.
Doug
Doug wrote: " it was
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah, Doug, I don't know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself. Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than
20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of
weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah, Doug, I don't know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself. Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
John Neal, author of Log of the Mahina, twisted the internal parts of his Vega’s rudder- had to build a new one – when he fell off a wave in a blow, maybe with the helm lashed, I can’t remember. There’s more than just weather helm out there! Nicholas H. Walsh Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940 This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us. From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder: Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah, Doug, I don't know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself. Thanks for the warning. TomTom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf On 6 October 2013 16:34, lewills30@... wrote: Well Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean. You are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega. I had the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I will be in good shape when I am done. Thanks for the help Doug.Larry Sent from Windows Mail From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Well of course I agree that if the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware of it's limitations. Which I described. Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself included don't. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders even stall and loose control. I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a little. Doug On 10/06/2013 01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
Also worth noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal parts of the rudder. That shear pin must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon. The pin is available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293. Nicholas H. Walsh Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940 This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us. From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder: Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah, Doug, I don't know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself. Thanks for the warning. TomTom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf On 6 October 2013 16:34, lewills30@... wrote: Well Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean. You are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega. I had the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I will be in good shape when I am done. Thanks for the help Doug.Larry Sent from Windows Mail From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com Well of course I agree that if the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware of it's limitations. Which I described. Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself included don't. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders even stall and loose control. I had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop. It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a little. Doug On 10/06/2013 01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
Welll sure but then he had s to sail
with the rudder over to one side. So he sailed with it bent until
he got someplace to build a new one. I don't think an aluminum
rudder would have done any better. The argument I was making was
the boat has a good rudder but I didn't say it was
indistructable. Doug
with the rudder over to one side. So he sailed with it bent until
he got someplace to build a new one. I don't think an aluminum
rudder would have done any better. The argument I was making was
the boat has a good rudder but I didn't say it was
indistructable. Doug
Special kind of stainless. Nicholas H. Walsh Admiralty and maritime law; Commercial law Nicholas H. Walsh P.A.120 Exchange StreetP.O. Box 7206Portland Maine 04112-7206Phone: 207/772-2191Fax: 207/774-3940 This email is from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact us. From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Douglas PollardSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 11:20 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder: Is the pin a shear pin or a taper pin. Bronze? I don't think I have a spare on board but I will sure get a couple. DougOn 10/07/2013 11:01 AM, Nico Walsh wrote:
Calling Steve Birch! Steve, do you have these shear pins?Nico Walsh wrote: "
Also
worth noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a
shear pin – look closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top
of the rudder post. I have sheared mine twice when the yard launched the
boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but for the shear pin there would
have been a huge load on the internal parts of the rudder.That
shear pin must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly
done when I didn’t have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon. The pin is available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
Also
worth noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a
shear pin – look closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top
of the rudder post. I have sheared mine twice when the yard launched the
boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but for the shear pin there would
have been a huge load on the internal parts of the rudder.That
shear pin must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly
done when I didn’t have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon. The pin is available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
Hi All
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
Yep, I have about ten in stock
Steve
From: David Wisdish
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:57 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Hi All
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico
Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
Steve
From: David Wisdish
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:57 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Hi All
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico
Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
From: Tom Fenton
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Calling Steve Birch! Steve, do you have these shear pins?
Nico Walsh wrote: "
Also worth noting is
that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look closely,
you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have sheared
mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but
for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal parts of the
rudder.
That shear pin must not
be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t have a
spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part
90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
From: Tom Fenton
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Calling Steve Birch! Steve, do you have these shear pins?
Nico Walsh wrote: "
Also worth noting is
that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look closely,
you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have sheared
mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but
for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal parts of the
rudder.
That shear pin must not
be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t have a
spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part
90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
Hi
Yep Shear pins in stock from VAGB
Steve
From: Tom Fenton
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Calling Steve Birch! Steve, do you have these shear pins?
Nico Walsh wrote: "
Also worth noting is
that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look closely,
you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have sheared
mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but
for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal parts of the
rudder.
That shear pin must not
be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t have a
spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part
90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
Yep Shear pins in stock from VAGB
Steve
From: Tom Fenton
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Calling Steve Birch! Steve, do you have these shear pins?
Nico Walsh wrote: "
Also worth noting is
that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look closely,
you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have sheared
mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I assume but
for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal parts of the
rudder.
That shear pin must not
be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t have a
spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part
90681A293."
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
Hi Steve
What is the cost of a pin including UK Postage?
Regards
David Wisdish
david@...
From: steve@...
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Yep, I have about ten in stock
Steve
From: David Wisdish
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:57 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Hi All
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico
Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote:
What is the cost of a pin including UK Postage?
Regards
David Wisdish
david@...
From: steve@...
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:35 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Yep, I have about ten in stock
Steve
From: David Wisdish
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:57 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Hi All
Is any one aware of a source in the UK or Europe for shear pins for the
rudder?
David Wisdish
Ponteneur V3283
From: Nico
Walsh
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2013 4:01 PM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AlbinVega] Open up the Rudder:
Also worth
noting is that the Vega rudder-tiller connection incorporates a shear pin – look
closely, you’ll see it in the bronze clamp at the top of the rudder post. I have
sheared mine twice when the yard launched the boat (who knows how . . . ) I
assume but for the shear pin there would have been a huge load on the internal
parts of the rudder.
That shear pin
must not be replaced with a stainless bolt, as I have briefly done when I didn’t
have a spare, and as I think is not uncommon.
The pin is
available at McMaster Carr, part 90681A293.
Nicholas H.
Walsh
Admiralty and maritime law;
Commercial law
Nicholas H.
Walsh P.A.
120 Exchange
Street
P.O. Box
7206
Portland Maine
04112-7206
Phone:
207/772-2191
Fax:
207/774-3940
This email is
from a law firm and may contain information that is privileged and confidential.
If you suspect you received it in error, please delete the email and contact
us.
From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom
FentonSent: Monday, October 07, 2013 5:36 AMTo:
AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [AlbinVega] Open up the
Rudder:
Doug wrote: " it was never concidered that anyone would sail
the boat heeled more Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a
lot of weather helm these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. " Ah,
Doug, I don\'t know how you do it. In the Med we have been caught out by sudden
squalls that have lasted an hour or more, and with a full main in F6/7, even
with two reefs in the genoa we have been heeled more than 20 degrees and had
severe weather helm, and all we could do was let out some main sheet to spill
some wind. I worried about the efffect on the tiller at the ruder stock (and
therefore carry a spare tiller). I had not thought about the rudder itself.
Thanks for the warning. Tom
Tom FentonSV Beowulf, V2977www.blog.mailasail.com/beowulf
On 6 October 2013 16:34, <lewills30@...>
wrote:
Well
Doug...LOL. All I can say here is that I am old and slow. So sailing a 40 year
old boat fits me perfect. I have my boat out of the water and in my shop, I am
going over every square inch of her giving her a face lift. She has been drove
hard and put away wet...if you know what I mean.
You
are right about the new boats and this one. I found stress cracks in all the
places were she was under heavy loads. I got with Boatworks, Wi. And Andy walked
me through the right way to fix these stress cracks. I haven’t seen or found any
signs of trouble at the mass buck head but since I am making her pretty, I am
going to reinforce this bulk head now. My Vega rudder turned out really nice, I
have to let things cure for a few days and then I will layup new fiber glass
over the entire rudder. It is a little bit of a sail to Maui from here and
rudder problems could really be a problem. I have asked Chuck (LeaLea) if he was
up for a boat ride to Maui, Chuck seems to do everything by the numbers. So
hopefully he will be free and show me the ropes of this Vega.
I had
the machine shop setup to machine a new bronze rudder piece at the keel for the
rudder. A piece 4” x 4”x 12”of bronze was $1,005.00 just for the bronze, that is
no labor. So after relooking at this again, he asks me, would you let me clean
this one up and make it like new? Guess what I said...YES! So I think I
will be in good shape when I am done.
Thanks for the help Doug.
Larry
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Douglas PollardSent: Sunday, October 6, 2013
8:15 AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Well of course I agree that if
the rudder needs repair it has to be done. I am also saying that their is
nothing wrong with the rudder design as there are several thousand boats out
there sailing with the existing rudder so the design was extremely good. I am
saying that an aluminum rudder will create more problems than it will
solve. This is something I know about having built two 30ft aluminum sail
boats and one powerboat as well as a few wooden ones. Aluminum is a
great material to build boats out of but the builder or designer has to be aware
of it\'s limitations. Which I described.
Albin Vegas are well ballanced boats so
I am sure it was never concidered that anyone would sail the boat heeled more
Than 20 degress or with any sail combination that creates a lot of weather helm
these are the conditions that cause rudders to fail. Larry I am not saying
you are not sailing your boat right I am saying that just about all of us myself
included don\'t. When driving hull down I have to tell myself I am doing
something the boat was not designed to do. I also have a tendancy to
belive that we all keep the shrouds to tight and especially the lower ones and
that causes problems with the support beam in the bulkhead sagging and having to
be repaired. These are things that the boat was never designed to
endure. We are sailing an old design that was build to sail the way boats
were sailed at that time, Come ahead 40 years, boats are expected to be used
under extreme shroud loading and sailed with extreme weather helm where rudders
even stall and loose control. I
had a little bronze plate on my first boat which was a 50 year old wooden sloop.
It said "Respect her age." That was a reminder to me to ease up a
little.
Doug On 10/06/2013
01:18 AM, lewills30@... wrote: