One Solar Panel: Three Batteries: Want to Keep Isolated

Jun 21, 2007
2,106
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
A check on the forums and the internet didn't yield me a conclusive answer:

Say I have only one Solar Panel. But I have three 12v lead acid batteries to which each is to have the solar maintain full charge between my visits to the boat. No 120V AC connection. Between visits to the boat all is turned off. No load. Everything, except the bilge pump level switches are off. (And I've got my leaks contained enough that the bilge remains dry between visits.)

I want also to keep each battery totally independent of each other. That is I can access each one as needed, without a worry that if one of the others becomes depleted due to an error, that cross linking of the solar input also doesn't deplete the others.

How does one do? Should I install three charge controllers; each one to be paralleled (on the input side) to the solar panel? But each one's output to the independent battery?

What is the standard practice? I don't want a high tech solution that costs $ hundreds.
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2010
12,369
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
A simple diode at the head of each battery will prevent charge from backing up. You can order them for a few dollars.
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
Put a diode in line from the controller to each battery, and up all voltages at the controller by .7v. (If it's maintain, you're lookin mostly at float anyway). Fuse the leads at the batteries.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The real question for me is why would you have three individual banks on-board a 36' boat? Start & house with a B2B or ACR/VSR/Combiner between the two simple & done.
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
Sure, a house+start with an ACR is how all the cool kids are doing it... But what if somebody wants to be different? :)

(Maine's answer is far better than my semi-flippant one...)
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
rardiH36 said:
I want also to keep each battery totally independent of each other. That is I can access each one as needed,... How does one do? ...What is the standard practice? ...
First, I don't believe there is a "standard" practice for what you want to do. My B323 and other Beneteaus have one on/off switch for each battery. I can pick and choose which battery(s) to use or charge. It's been a great system.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I believe rardi36 is trying to prevent one battery going bad and taking the rest with it because they are cross connected via the solar panel wiring.
The circuit will have to have a start (with emergency connection switch turned off) and a three way switch(also turned to off) for the two house batteries one each connected to the 1 and 2 terminals on the switch. This insures that your batteries are isolated but allows them to quickly be reconnected when you come aboard. The solar circuit is solar panel to solar controller then connect the battery + on the controller with three wires, one to each of the + terminals on each battery. Each + wire has to have a diode (get the direction correct BTW) in series with the wire to prevent backflow of current in the wire. The grounds on the whole chabang can be wired together. Course you will also need to dedicate a wire for the bilge pump from one of the batteries + terminals as there will be no power with all the switches turned off.
good luck
 
Feb 17, 2006
5,274
Lancer 27PS MCB Camp Pendleton KF6BL
Guys, if you are going to suggest using a diode, at least tell the individual what diode to use. This way they have something to go with.
 

walt

.
Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Regarding the diode.. If you have a diode between the battery and solar charge controller, the charge controller will determine the battery voltage by looking at its connection to the battery. With the diode in series, the charge controller gets tricked into thinking the battery voltage is a diode drop higher than it really is.. You will significantly undercharge the batts.

If the there is one solar panel and a diode to three charge controllers.. really odd things could happen. You might get real lucky.. but I would not spend the cash to find out. Likely issues with either MPPT or PWM charge controllers. One solar panel running three charge controllers with no diodes.. also odd things likely to happen.

The only way diodes would sort of work is if there is NO charge controller.. not a good idea if the solar panel is of any size at all.

Another vote to look at more conventional options..
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,106
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
Responses are what I was looking for. Thank you. Diodes from the controller to each battery will keep each battery isolated from each other when their independent main switches are in the off position.

Bill Roosa describes well what I wish to do. Better than I did in my opening post. I believe that I have some 2 amp rated or so silicon diodes somewhere in my stash of electronic compents. The solar panel is only 30W.

Regarding Maine Sail's observation. Yes, I understand that three batteries is overkill. But they are already in place .... for many years. When not at the boat, the two group 27's are always switched off with the red A/B/Both switch. The exception, per Bill Roosa, is each one is separately hard wired, and fused, to my two bilge pumps. The group 27's are maintained with a 30W solar panel and a Duo type charge controller. The 3rd battery is just a small starter battery that has no trouble cranking over the engine. It has its own switch. Always off except for the occasional check that it still is up to the task. I had been maintaining it with a small 2-3W semi-flexible solar panel that I picked up a couple of years ago at West Marine. UV degraded the plastic surprisingly fast. (Not a good buy!) Rather than mount another small trickle solar panel, this time I was thinking to use the existing solar panel instead. I am only using the solar to keep the batteries maintained well when not at the boat. And even though the panel is small, if say I do run one of the batteries down to say 12.4 volts, the panel will slowly recharge it. Good enough for my needs.
 
May 17, 2004
5,070
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Sounds like you essentially have a start battery and a 2 battery house bank, with the house bank controlled by the A/B/Both switch. If that's the case, then why not just keep the A/B/Both switch on Both, charge that with the solar, and use an ACR for the start bank them as Maine suggests? That keeps you away from diodes with their nuisance voltage drops, allows you to use both house batteries simultaneously for maximum efficiency, and still provides redundancy if a battery should fail.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Regarding Maine Sail's observation. Yes, I understand that three batteries is overkill. But they are already in place ....
It's not the physical amount of batteries, heck for most 36' vessels two G-27's are pretty slim by today's standards, it is how they are wired or used as banks. You have three individual banks and that really serves no benefit on a boat that does not have a "bow bank". It's really hard to even justify a bow bank on most sub 42' vessels thus most sub 42' sailboats are going to be better served by two banks. A contiguously wired house bank and a start or start/reserve.

I have posted this before but it is still relevant here:


IS IT BETTER TO HAVE ONE OR TWO BATTERY BANKS FOR HOUSE USE?
First here's Nigel Calders take..

Begin Quote = Nigel Calder

"The popular arrangement of having two house banks alternated in use needs scrutiny before I go any further.

LIFE CYCLES: As we have seen, the life expectancy of a battery in cycling service is directly related to the depth to which it is discharged at each cycle - the greater the depth of discharge, the shorter the battery’s life.

This relationship between depth of discharge and battery life is NOT linear. As the depth of discharge increases, a battery’s life expectancy is disproportionately shortened. A given battery may cycle through 10% of its capacity 2,000 times, 50% of its capacity 300 times and 100% of its capacity around 100 times.

Let’s say, for arguments sake, that a boat has two 200-ah battery banks, alternated from day to day, with a daily load of 80 Ah. Each bank will be discharged by 40% (80 Ah of one of the two 200 Ah banks) of its capacity before being recharged. The batteries will fail after 380 cycles, which is 760 days (since each is used every other day). If the two banks had been wired in parallel, to make a single 400 Ah battery bank, this bank would have been discharged by 20% of capacity every day, with a life expectancy of 800 days, a 5% increase in life expectancy using exactly the same batteries!

But now let’s double the capacity of the batteries, so that the boat has either two 400 Ah banks, or a single 800 Ah bank, but with the same 80 Ah daily load. The two separate banks will be cycling through 20% of capacity every other day, resulting in a total life expectancy of 1,600 days. Doubling the size of the battery banks in relation to the load has produced a 210% increase in life expectancy. The single 800 Ah bank will be cycling through 10% of capacity every day, resulting in a life expectancy of 2,000 days - a 25% increase in life expectancy over the two (400 Ah) banks, and a 250% increase in life expectancy over the single 400 Ah battery bank!

There are two immediate conclusions to be drawn from these figures:

1. For a given total battery capacity, wiring the (house) batteries into a single high capacity bank, rather than having them divided into two alternating banks, will result in a longer overall life expectancy for the batteries.

2. All other things being equal, any increase in the overall capacity of a battery bank will produce a disproportionate increase in its life expectancy (through reducing the depth of discharge at each cycle)."

End Calder Quote:


My additional thoughts are below:

One large bank is best for reasons beyond even what Calder has touched on.

#1 It is far more efficient to charge one bank rather than two unless your using 100% free energy and you have lots of excess time to on your hands.. Even then "finishing" (getting back to 100% SOC) two banks is less efficient due to the longevity of the time needed, during acceptance limiting, and "finishing" the battery takes while using free energy..

#2 A larger contiguous bank will also not be as dramatically affected by Peukert and you'll actually get more usable Ah capcity out of a larger bank, with the same load, than you do with a smaller bank with the same load.

For example a bank with a Peukert of 1.2 and an average load of 8A looks like this, if you were to draw the bank to 10.5V and use all the capacity.

Note:
Increases in capacity at slow rate discharge are from mathematical formula and usually do not = actual chemical capacity. Gains at slow rates can range from 105% to 123% of capacity, but I've not seen much more...

100Ah bank, Peukert 1.3, load 8A = 87Ah's
200Ah bank, Peukert 1.3, load 8A = 213Ah's
400Ah bank, Peukert 1.3, load 8A = 526 Ah's
600Ah bank, Peukert 1.3, load 8A = 892Ah's
800Ah bank, Peukert 1.3, load 8A = 1296 Ah's

The jump from a single 100Ah battery with an average load of 8A to a 200Ah bank with the same 8A load goes from 87Ah's of usable capacity (yes less than 100Ah's) for the 100Ah battery to 213 Ah's with the 200Ah bank. As you grow the bank and keep the load the same the excess usable capacity continues to grow.

The image below is an actual hourly rate chart from Rolls Battery. It illustrates this point extremely well. Note the usable capacity of this battery at a load of 4.86A vs. the 20 hour rated capacity load of 18.75A!

Boaters rarely if ever load their house banks at the 20 hour rate as an "average" unless the bank is too small... The 20 hour rate would be an average load of 20A on a 400Ah bank or 5A on a 100Ah bank. The reality is that the average boater with a 400Ah bank is often pulling just 2A - 8A as an average load.

By using the bank split in half you lose much of these Peukert gains, especially on thick plate deep cycle batteries.

Rolls Battery Hour Rate Chart CH375:


This means that your bank will have even shallower discharges, not just because it is one large bank, but if the load stays the same, and you increase bank size you will actually get a bit more out of the larger bank due to the Peukert effect.

#3 A grossly overlooked benefit of a larger bank is the banks ability to support higher voltages for your equipment for longer periods of time. Things like heaters and refrigeration run more efficiently at higher voltages, windlasses will perform better as will just about everything you have that runs of 12V DC. Starter motors also perform better with less voltage sag. With a single larger bank you not only combine Ah's of capacity but you also combine cranking amperage. A larger bank even at 50% SOC will almost always start the motor with less voltage sag than will a smaller bank at a higher state of charge.

#4 By correctly wiring them contiguously in parallel, positive off Battery #1 and negative off battery #2, the batteries remain better balanced. Maintaining balanced batteries leads to longer battery life.

#5 The shallower the discharges, for the same load, the less sulfation you create and this is exactly why a single large bank, cycled less deeply, yields more lifetime real-world cycles.

#6 Wiring *one large contiguous bank, either parallel for 12V batteries or series/parallel for 6V batteries, allows for more precision in keeping the bank wiring and current flowing through the bank in balance.

*Note: This does not mean that you can't have a means of emergency battery isolation such as shown below, just that the "emergency isolation switches" remain out of sight of guests and always remain ON, unless there is a battery failure within the bank.:


#7 Splitting or alternating a house bank use makes for a monitoring nightmare with a battery monitor.


In short a single large bank for house use means:

*Charge efficiency is better
*Cycle life is considerably better
*The batteries ability to support voltage is much better
*You get slightly more usable capacity at the same average load

Battery Monitors:

If you are looking into a battery monitor they fall into two categories at this point.

Coulomb Counters = These count Ah's and require copious amounts of user input to get anywhere close to being accurate. They drift and become inaccurate over time. There are a lot of poor monitors out there so be sure to get one that fully allows you to program the Peukert's constant, charge efficiency etc... If splitting a bank you'd really need two battery monitors, one for each bank....

Smart Gauge =
The Smart Gauge does not use an ammeter and is quite amazingly accurate. Connect two wires, program the battery type and then simply leave it connected. It gets more accurate over time. It does however need to remain connected to the house bank 100% of the time or it can get out of accuracy...

Both types of monitor will need to be hard wired to the bank with no ability to switch or split the house bank.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Maine Sail's schematic in post 13 shows what I pointed out in post 7. The "buss bar" in my system is a large cable across the output sides of the three switches. HI-amperage load cables are doubled up on the lugs of the banks cables.
 
Jun 11, 2004
1,633
Oday 31 Redondo Beach
It's not the physical amount of batteries, heck for most 36' vessels two G-27's are pretty slim by today's standards, it is how they are wired or used as banks. You have three individual banks and that really serves no benefit on a boat that does not have a "bow bank". It's really hard to even justify a bow bank on most sub 42' vessels thus most sub 42' sailboats are going to be better served by two banks. A contiguously wired house bank and a start or start/reserve.
I think he is probably combining the two group 27's as one bank when he is "cruising" and just wants them isolated from each other when they are on the solar charger when he is away from the boat so in use he effectively has two banks, not three. Rardi, is that right?
 
Last edited: