On the rode again

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Tom S

Anchor Down - I think

that the idea behind the chain/nylon/chain/nylon is that it will allow for the weight and cantenary benefits of mostly chain but with the built-in elastic qualities of nylon rode with-out having to put a nylon snubber on an all Chain Rode. Pretty slick idea but I would think the downside is all the potential problem points with all those chain-nylon splices maybe causing more probability of "weaker-link" scenario. With only one splice then you have to only keep an eye on one --- seems like a lot of extra manual labor to get all that splicing done too
 
M

Mick

Anchor Rode

On our C36 we have always used a 32 pound Bruce with 30' of 1/4 HT chain and 250' of 5/8 3 strand because the 93 C36 came with a windlass without a chain gypsy. Since modifying the windlass to handle chain, we have changed to 100' of 1/4 HT chain with 250' of 1/2" 3 strand. This gives us the ability to anchor in deep water plus cleat off the nylon rode in shallower water.
 
Warren Milberg

Warren Milberg

.
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
Chain of events

I'd like hear the experiences of those who use all chain when, in a real blow, the chain is no longer horizontal, but rather stretched out tight and with little or no catenary.
 
C

Cap'n Ron

Chain of Events; reply

Warren, Excellent question, and although I know many guys much more qualified, I'll attempt to answer as best I can. I have used nylon to chain, and all chain; all chain IS the best choice overall and especially in a hard blow, coral or a junky bottom. Ed's method is a good one, I have not used it but know others who have. That is the 'sentinal' is a weight to keep good catenary, but should 'ride' on your chain, the reason for the nylon is for both the stretch and less weight ( you need to get it back aboard at some point, and who wants to pack all that weight around when you'll seldom need it too), but 250 ft of 3/8 (or +) chain with a 45lb Bruce/CQR is an excellent storm system and very difficult to drag if it is a minimum of 8 to 1 without seaweed, kelp or a shelf bottom. The main problem with nylon braid or kernmantle is not the inherent strength, quite strong with the proper diameter, but the stretch (good in a way yes, forgiving...) in a bigger blow that stretches out the nylon rode, about 50% of its length, not only sharp objects are a danger, but any hard object touching that stretched line can saw right through it like a stretched 'rubber-band' which is essentially what it becomes. This is for when it is really blowing, not a 'normal' 30 knots of wind and sea. This is why seaman get so concerned about chaff, use all matter of stuff to comabat this problem, old fire hose, and that sort of thing. Specically, YES, definitely! If a chain gets stretched all out, you don't have to worry about the chaff part of the equation, but it can and will yank out the anchor. I held in coral in a ten-ton schooner in 45 kts (max)overnight 18hrs, a heavy sea way, 25ft depth, 250 ft 3/8 chain and a 35lb CQR. Shallower is always better, more scope too, as is a heavier anchor, but it is not a perfect world and certain 'safrifices' need to be made...35lb for a ten tonner is okay for a bow anchor, but definitley light for those conditions. That's about all I can contribute here...;-)
 
K

KennyH

Seen what all chain can do in Hurricane

I think all chain with a snubber is fine 98% of the time. It is not right for Hurricane conditions as the snubber cannot handle the loads on it and the chain will pull out the sampson post or other attachments. Also 20ft of chain and the rest nylon is not correct either. For a reasonable size cruising boat 30-40 is the minimum and 50 foot is what I survived a Hurricane on. A good rule is 1.5 times the boat length in chain. Three anchors with 50 foot of chain and 200 foot+ of nylon on each will survive 110 knot hurricane direct hit.
 
T

Timbo3

.
Sep 11, 2004
70
Hunter 30_88-94 Tarpon Springs, FL
Chain in a gail

We usually anchor in 8-12' depths so with my set-up it's always all chain. I do use a 20' 3/8 nylon snubber with a hook. I have about 100' of chain and 100' of nylon in combo on a Delta with a Danforth backup on about 50' of chain & 100' nylon. The Danforth has saved my bacon with a 180 degree wind shift flipping the Delta and not able to reset even with all the rode out. I watch so many people (this weekend included) not set their anchors - I think this is the key. Reverse @ 1500 RPM for 2 minutes - check the chain to make sure it's tight. Then @ 2000 RPM for another 2 minutes and if that holds, you're in good shape. I watched a boat in our anchorage run aground this past weekend while a thunder cell raced overhead and produced 35 mph winds. We did not anchor that close to the shallows to give ourselves room for the impending afternoon storms. And yes, it seems as though that chain is tight in a blow and @ 2000 RPM.
 
C

Cap'n Ron

Hurricane...hmmmmmm...

Kenny, I have 'ridden out' a hurricaine aboard and I was in one of the only three places you want to be, 1) far up a river in mangroves; this worked well. 2) on the hard with your keel in a hole, this I have seen work. 3) Out at sea with a lotta sea-room, and I've rode out some signifigant storms on the sea myself with not a worry in the world on catenary or chaff except the time I used a sea-anchor...;-) More than one anchor is a tactic I have tried, and the entanglements can be dealt with, but if you do drag, it will start on one, and it digs a hole for the other to follow. A 'snubber' keeps the chain quiet at night, and even a windlall AND mast are rippe dout in those ink of forces. The navy, and all other shipping has been using all chain ever since it has been available.
 
C

Cap'n Ron

FYI

I keep thinking everyone on God's green earth knows what a 'snubber' is...;-) It is simply a nylon line, say 20ft with a loop, butterfly, or figure-eight knot centered on a 'pelican-hook' the pelican hooks into the chain, after most of it is payed out, the two ends are belayed to strong cleats or the windlass, them more chain is let out till a slight bight of chain is a bit loose. The chain remains secured on the gypsy with all secured. A 'prussik' knot can alson be wrapped in a bight round the chain too, but needs to be untied or cut before the chain can again be brought over the gypsy to up anchor.
 
Franklin

Franklin

.
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
common sense

If you anchor in an area where there is no waves, regardless of the wind, then chain will not yank out the anchor anymore then a rode will because both will be as tight as they can be with no yanking...just a pulling force. However, if there are waves involved and they don't use a very stretchable snubber, the up and down motion will jerk on the chain and I can see that yanking on an anchor. One more note on setting the anchor: if you let off on the gas and the boat lunges forward, then your not dragging and at least partially set. Personally: I use an anchor chain and rode combo. Currently have 25' of heavy chain and 300' of rode on a danforth. I'm looking to upgrade to 50' of chain with 300' of rode and a different anchor...maybe a Bulwaga. Now if only we can build a device that when the anchor alarm goes off, it deployes the backup anchor so we can sleep peacefully :)
 
Franklin

Franklin

.
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
BTW: Chafe

If your using a snubber with chain then you still have to worry about chafe because if the snubber goes, then the anchor is exposed to being yanked out from waves, right?
 
O

OldeCGChief

.
Jul 4, 2006
3
Morgan 36 Out Island, Ketch Bellingham, WA
It Stretches & Holds

You asked about the Chain-Nylon-Chain-Nylon Combination Rode. The advantages are that it puts weight behind the anchor where you need it, on the bottom, while being able to stretch and absorb shocks from the wave and sea conditions. Another advantage is that it lightens the weight in the bow (you can also go up to the next larger size of anchor line and still save on weight up forward, allowing the boat to ride better). As for pulling an anchor out once properly, the first thing I want to know is what did he or she have out for SCOPE? If I was not able to be on the hard, or up in the mangroves, I would want to be out where I could put out as much Scope as I could, which to me would be on the order of 15 to 1 or more. The only boat that i have ever heard about that have had there anchor pull out and drag, when questioned, have said they thought they had a scope of maybe 7 to 1, and when you are dealing with Hurricane Waves your nice 7 to 1 will quickly become 5 to 1 or less in a hurry, and you start getting that vertical movement that will pull an anchor out, so you stat dragging and hoping that the anchor will snag on something and save you. Just refect on what you do when you want to pull the anchor, you have to pull the boat up to the anchor until it is almost right above it, before you can break it loose. Hope you have a good Day Sailing. Ed
 
E

ex-admin

Final results

Fional results for the Quick Quiz ending July 9, 2006: The rode on my boat consists of: 72% ombo of chain and nylon 17% All braided nylon 09% All chain 02% All 3-strand nylon 1,494 owners responding
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top Bottom