On the Level

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
IMHO the info produced by this satellite will be useless. The sea level is constantly changing everywhere due to tides, air pressure, winds, planet passes, waves, Etc. You cannot just take annual measurements and compare. Because this data needs interpretation to adjust for the variables mentioned above, someone will have to analyze the collected data and tell us what it means. This person will quite likely be biased in one way or the other and will make the data fit his expected result. Lots of fake science out there. They want you to believe that because they wasted such huge amounts of time and money that the results must be true. Not so.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
It’s my understanding that the data captured by this satellite will also be used to further refine weather forecasts, storm surge and many other applications.

Further detail here:

 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,332
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
IMHO the info produced by this satellite will be useless. The sea level is constantly changing everywhere due to tides, air pressure, winds, planet passes, waves, Etc. You cannot just take annual measurements and compare. Because this data needs interpretation to adjust for the variables mentioned above, someone will have to analyze the collected data and tell us what it means. This person will quite likely be biased in one way or the other and will make the data fit his expected result. Lots of fake science out there. They want you to believe that because they wasted such huge amounts of time and money that the results must be true. Not so.
I personally know a number of scientists that work in these kinds of programs and nothing of the above implications of bias could be further from the truth. The scientists are looking for what the data says, not what someone wants it to say. At least the scientists that are associated with programs such as these. I do get to read individuals that appear to want to "appeal to certain ideologies" publish crap.

Fake science appears to come more from politicians than scientists.

dj
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,340
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
IMHO the info produced by this satellite will be useless. The sea level is constantly changing everywhere due to tides, air pressure, winds, planet passes, waves, Etc. You cannot just take annual measurements and compare. Because this data needs interpretation to adjust for the variables mentioned above, someone will have to analyze the collected data and tell us what it means. This person will quite likely be biased in one way or the other and will make the data fit his expected result. Lots of fake science out there. They want you to believe that because they wasted such huge amounts of time and money that the results must be true. Not so.
I don't think so Roy.... I definitly lean right of center but to deny that the climate has changed a lot since our youth is to deny the sky is blue. We can argue if climate change is man-made or from solar activity or whatever but to say it hasn't changed is perposterous. Regardless of what you believe the source is... we still need to know what is going on and prepare.

Some anectodal data: When I was a kid I used to play hockey on the pond behind my mother's house. That pond hasn't froze in the past 15 years. And also when I was a kid, my 6th grade teacher used to talk about the annual town ice skating race from our town to the next using the Fox River. That river has not frozen hard enough to skate on in my lifetime.

And to say that you can't interpret the data.... well it is a simple matter to take readings over extended periods of time and make a trend line. We can argue about the political implications of the trend line but...It is not rocket science to collect interpretable data... well okay... maybe it is rocket science but .... ;)
 
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Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Somehow, a machine 800 miles above the earth is going to tell us more than a stick in the mud. How did Einstein phrase it?
Now if we brought back coal fired heating and steel plants, those ponds will freeze right over.
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,856
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
I don't think so Roy.... I definitly lean right of center but to deny that the climate has changed a lot since our youth is to deny the sky is blue. We can argue if climate change is man-made or from solar activity or whatever but to say it hasn't changed is perposterous. Regardless of what you believe the source is... we still need to know what is going on and prepare.

Some anectodal data: When I was a kid I used to play hockey on the pond behind my mother's house. That pond hasn't froze in the past 15 years. And also when I was a kid, my 6th grade teacher used to talk about the annual town ice skating race from our town to the next using the Fox River. That river has not frozen hard enough to skate on in my lifetime.

And to say that you can't interpret the data.... well it is a simple matter to take readings over extended periods of time and make a trend line. We can argue about the political implications of the trend line but...It is not rocket science to collect interpretable data... well okay... maybe it is rocket science but .... ;)
Keep in mind that the climate does change in cycles much longer than our lifetimes. The argument about climate change must always be established on periods of time lasting thousands of years, not tens of years. Ergo, the famous "hockey stick" plot.
 
May 17, 2004
5,009
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Somehow, a machine 800 miles above the earth is going to tell us more than a stick in the mud.
From the article - “Sentinel-6 provides sufficient measurements to map the height of the sea surface over 95% of the world’s ice-free oceans every 10 days.” You’re gonna need a lot of sticks in the mud to match that I think. Also, mud moves.
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,332
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
A number of years ago, I was working in a field called "remote sensing". We took satellite data from publicly available data, did some mathematical image manipulations and produced an image of the reflecting pool in DC. The image was so clear, you could not only see everyone standing around the pool, you could see their reflections in the water. You could almost see the individual water droplets from the fountain hitting the water. Also did imaging of crops in the Midwest in order to help farmers look for "hot spots" - small areas in their crops indicating insect or other infestations in order to provide data for early intervention on disease to prevent spread and crop loss.

No sticks in the mud are ever going to give the detailed, world-wide data like satellites can provide.

dj
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,340
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Keep in mind that the climate does change in cycles much longer than our lifetimes. The argument about climate change must always be established on periods of time lasting thousands of years, not tens of years. Ergo, the famous "hockey stick" plot.
None of that matters. I already said we can debate what is causing it but we can’t ignore it is happening. If we had actual leaders instead of vote buyers ... we would have moved the 9th ward inland after Katrina instead of rebuilding it BELOW sea level.

They are now talking about building a wall around Charleston. The people who benefit from that boondoggle are not the ones who are going to pay for it.

without good information we can’t make good decisions.
 
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Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
I think it sad to think we can have all that technology and not be able to get a light to work. I looked back on my posts and many of yours and see something familiar, planned obsolescence. Wasn’t it our plan to be free of the grasp of technology and live the simple life? Well, maybe I can tweet NASA and ask them where the fish are biting today.
 

RoyS

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Jun 3, 2012
1,739
Hunter 33 Steamboat Wharf, Hull, MA
Remember, fellow sailors, where the term, "Climate Change" came from? Fake scientists, were caught twisting "Global Warming" data to make their theory work. After that, to save the climate study industry, "Climate Change" was invented as the new term. Some people have been trained like Pavlov's dogs to hear "Global Warming" when someone says "Climate Change." I am not against science and research but I am against weak and dishonest scientists who twist the truth like politicians. There are woeful motivations at play in science today. Some are motivated by their fifteen minutes of fame, eg "I found the missing link." Some are motivated by racking up government grants to stay employed. Some politicians are salivating over a "Carbon Tax." I ask only this of our scientists; when you finally get control of our climate, please adjust for longer summers and milder winters.
 
Nov 21, 2012
587
Yamaha 33 Port Ludlow, WA
Scientific theories have a foundation based on a broad and transparent interpretation of the data. Conspiracy theories have an agenda based on narrow, anecdotal, unsupported and improbable interpretations of the data. Yet some people prefer them. Baffling.
 

dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,332
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Remember, fellow sailors, where the term, "Climate Change" came from? Fake scientists, were caught twisting "Global Warming" data to make their theory work. After that, to save the climate study industry, "Climate Change" was invented as the new term.
Nothing further from the truth. The term climate change has been around for many decades. I have an uncle who was studying climate change back in the '70's and '80's.

Global warming or cooling or whatever is better stated as climate change. So now we have a better term that more accurately reflects a subject that we indeed need to study and understand the future consequences. We need to join together working towards better knowledge. We owe it to our children, our grand children, our great grand children and beyond.

dj
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,377
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Satellite data has only been available since 1976, but became a major impact in mid 80's.

In order to use Satellite Data, scientists must first have a basis and reliable instruments.
One of my favorite Satellite Data info is from the University of Miami. [ Full data page here]

Ocean Heat Content.

Heat can not be measured.:badbad:

ohcE_aQG3_latest_natl-2.gif
But yet here we have, in graphical format, the Heat Content of the Atlantic Region.:huh:
And they can show the Depth of Water Heat content at 2 different reference temperatures 20° and 26°C
This is their Error of analysis.
error_aQG3_latest_natl.gif
What are the Streaks? The combined orbital paths of 3 Satellites.
Useful? Yes
Predictive? Yes , but how far in the future?
Historical Trends? So so.
___________

Level of the Oceans...
Perhaps by Satellites, but I am very doubtful of Accuracy. Time will tell.

Since the Earth Water Content is very slowly lost to outer Space, we can assume is it a Constant mass of H2O.
It is the form of Water [Solid, Liquid, Vapor] that is the Key to Ocean Levels.

And Yes, we have Satellites monitoring both Polar Regions Ice changes. This is the Biggest Factor on Levels.

_________

Global Climate, Climate Change, or Weather...

We are somewhat lucky that many of the people of the world can actually change their local climate.

If you don't like Ice or Cold relocate toward the Equator.;)

If I don't like Hurricanes, Move away from the Coast.;)

For those who can not relocate, Adapt!

______
The major control of North American Climate is ...

Pacific Ocean and its Currents.

The Atlantic and Gulf are a minor second place.

I leave it to other to infer what affects the Pacific Ocean.

Hint: It is a Big Yellow Object in sky, daily.
Jim...

PS: The best weather forecast is 5 Days. Longer times of up to 16 days are a good guess. Trying longer is Done By NOAA.
PSS: My next 10 year forecast. Warm Summers and Cool Winters,:pimp:
 
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dLj

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Mar 23, 2017
3,332
Belliure 41 Sailing back to the Chesapeake
Ocean Heat Content.

Heat can not be measured.:badbad:
Why do you say heat cannot be measured?

dj
p.s. climate change studies do not only rely on satellite data.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,510
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Scientist who do a poor or deceptive job dont get more grants, they get fired. Marketing companies hired by the fossil fuel industry do in fact get more money by deception.

As everyone knows, there is a lot of deceptive BS on this subject and these discussion get ugly quick when you dont have to back up what what you think you know. Someone used to saying whatever BS they want will quickly go away if they have to back up what they say. Lets see this work..

Interesting on the new satellite. These use radar altimeters to measure sea level (reference as always otherwise no credibility) Laboratory for Satellite Altimetry / Sea Level Rise

The radar altimeters used in Satellites have a measurement uncertainty
-2 (2008–2019), and Jason-3 (2016–present) estimate global mean sea level every 10 days with an uncertainty of 3–4 mm.
That makes very short measurements somewhat uncertain but in the near 30 years of measurement showing 80 mm of rise, the sats have good accuracy. (picture is from the same link above)



From this link it looks like Sentinel 6 has increased accuracy over previous satellites (reference) Sentinel-6 satellite: Watching the sea level rise | DW | 19.11.2020.

How does Sentinel-6 work?
The latest addition to the Copernicus Earth Observation Program will continue the decades long monitoring of sea level from space carried out by the Jason satellites. It will scan 95% of the global sea surface within 10 days — from an altitude of more than 1,300 kilometers (800 miles) and to an accuracy of less than 1 millimeter.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,377
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Why do you say heat cannot be measured?
Thermodynamics!

HEAT

You need the Heat Capacity of the medium, Temperatures and Calculus .

There is no such measuring device, but you can Assume stuff for an estimate.
Jim...
 
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Jan 19, 2010
12,340
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Thermodynamics!

HEAT

You need the Heat Capacity of the medium, Temperatures and Calculus .

There is no such measuring device, but you can Assume stuff for an estimate.
Jim...
Yep.... heat is not the same thing as temperature. Temp is an indirect measure of kinetic energy. Unfortunately our language does not lend itself well to an understanding of the difference. We might say something like "heat the oven to 450". It is confusing language... Or Jim might talk about how much heat is still in the ocean and then show a plot of ocean temperatures... :biggrin: