I am planning on upgrading my 12 year old refrigeration system to a new supercold A/B with raw water heat exchanger, to reduce the power demands in the warm waters of the Med. Couple of questions from a refrigeration rookie: 1) What tools do I need and is it a dity project for a lay person to get the old refrigerant out and the new in? 2) The evaporator I have now seems to be working fine and is in good condition, do I have to replace it with the new compressor? If I don't have to I would prefer not to replace it, as the previous owner, in an effort to improve insolation, used two part foam and it will be next to impossible to remove the old copper tubing. I'm hoping the connectors are a standard size. Thanks, Roy s/y Brilliant
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Far better off in the long run
Installing a new system should be a snap. The holes have been cut, the path for the tube set already establish. All you should need are a couple of wrenches, a screwdriver and a friend to help with the tube set. It's always a good idea to run new power supply wires with installing a new unit. There are several reasons why you should not hook up a new CU style Adler Barbour condensing unit to your old evaporator. 1. The new style couplings which connect the condensing unit to the evaporator are not compatable with the older couplings (through the years there have been 4 different styles of couplings used) 2. The oil used in the new compressor is not compatable with the oil in a R12 system. 3. Ok, so someone tells you they can flush your evaporator, solder on the new style couplings and charge it for you. Your first question should be, how much is this going to cost? Chances are almost or equal to the cost of a new evaporator. 4. Your old thermostat will not work with the new condensing unit. The new compressors have a speed (rpm)control built into the new thermostats. The speed at which the compressor runs is determined by the size of the evaporator, thus they are packaged with the installation kit that comes with a new evaporator. 5. The refrigerant charge is critical within a few grams for optimum performance. This is computerized at the factory and difficult to achieve with gauges onboard. 6. Last but not least, the 2 years parts and labor warranty is void if both parts of the system are not purchased. Each has a serial number and you will be asked for both should you request service or a replacement part under warranty I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction, regards, Gary
Installing a new system should be a snap. The holes have been cut, the path for the tube set already establish. All you should need are a couple of wrenches, a screwdriver and a friend to help with the tube set. It's always a good idea to run new power supply wires with installing a new unit. There are several reasons why you should not hook up a new CU style Adler Barbour condensing unit to your old evaporator. 1. The new style couplings which connect the condensing unit to the evaporator are not compatable with the older couplings (through the years there have been 4 different styles of couplings used) 2. The oil used in the new compressor is not compatable with the oil in a R12 system. 3. Ok, so someone tells you they can flush your evaporator, solder on the new style couplings and charge it for you. Your first question should be, how much is this going to cost? Chances are almost or equal to the cost of a new evaporator. 4. Your old thermostat will not work with the new condensing unit. The new compressors have a speed (rpm)control built into the new thermostats. The speed at which the compressor runs is determined by the size of the evaporator, thus they are packaged with the installation kit that comes with a new evaporator. 5. The refrigerant charge is critical within a few grams for optimum performance. This is computerized at the factory and difficult to achieve with gauges onboard. 6. Last but not least, the 2 years parts and labor warranty is void if both parts of the system are not purchased. Each has a serial number and you will be asked for both should you request service or a replacement part under warranty I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction, regards, Gary
Thanks, but!
Gary, Thanks for the response., I understand the issue of couplers not matching and the warranty definitely gets my attention, however it will still be a pain to run new tubing to the evaporator through the additional foam. You did not answer my other question: 1) What tools do I need and is it a do it yourself project for a lay person to get the old refrigerant out and the new in? I have very limited assets over here in Crete and before I take on this project I really need to know if I have the tools I need. It's always hard to take out a working (though marginal) system, and then end up not being able to install the new one without major expense (frustration I expect). Thanks again, Roy
Gary, Thanks for the response., I understand the issue of couplers not matching and the warranty definitely gets my attention, however it will still be a pain to run new tubing to the evaporator through the additional foam. You did not answer my other question: 1) What tools do I need and is it a do it yourself project for a lay person to get the old refrigerant out and the new in? I have very limited assets over here in Crete and before I take on this project I really need to know if I have the tools I need. It's always hard to take out a working (though marginal) system, and then end up not being able to install the new one without major expense (frustration I expect). Thanks again, Roy
Unbelievably easy...
I've installed 2 A/B systems in the past and I am no mechanical genius. In fact I'm what most people here call a "geek". Although one of the systems had a minute but critical error that took forever to discover (a loose fitting on the wire) A/B was very helpful in the process. I would say you can definitely do it if you have screwdriver and a few wrenches. It's really easy. In the alternative, if you want split the airfire, I will come over from the States with the tools and help you do it!
I've installed 2 A/B systems in the past and I am no mechanical genius. In fact I'm what most people here call a "geek". Although one of the systems had a minute but critical error that took forever to discover (a loose fitting on the wire) A/B was very helpful in the process. I would say you can definitely do it if you have screwdriver and a few wrenches. It's really easy. In the alternative, if you want split the airfire, I will come over from the States with the tools and help you do it!
Insulation Question
Roy, You seemed concerned about the insulation and I don't understand why. "Two-part" closed-cell foam insulation is fairly soft stuff and is the appropriate material that should be used for insulation on an ice box. In this regard I'd say the previous owner did a real favor. My experience with this closed-cell foam is you can cut it with a sheetrock knife really easy so removing the old copper tubes should be a piece of cake. To fill the holes in just get a can of one-part closed-cell foam from West Marine and just shoot it in the hole - that should work really easy. Removing it from the copper tubes should be easy too, unless I'm missing something. For small holes like you'd probably have, the A-B kits come with some putty that should suffice for hole filling (at least mine did). Below is a link to closed-cell foam available at Boat US. West Marine, however, is probably the most experienced at overseas shipments.
Roy, You seemed concerned about the insulation and I don't understand why. "Two-part" closed-cell foam insulation is fairly soft stuff and is the appropriate material that should be used for insulation on an ice box. In this regard I'd say the previous owner did a real favor. My experience with this closed-cell foam is you can cut it with a sheetrock knife really easy so removing the old copper tubes should be a piece of cake. To fill the holes in just get a can of one-part closed-cell foam from West Marine and just shoot it in the hole - that should work really easy. Removing it from the copper tubes should be easy too, unless I'm missing something. For small holes like you'd probably have, the A-B kits come with some putty that should suffice for hole filling (at least mine did). Below is a link to closed-cell foam available at Boat US. West Marine, however, is probably the most experienced at overseas shipments.
Here's what you're getting into
Roy,Europe has always been a forerunner on the issue stratospheric ozone protection. I'm not an expert on all the accords they have signed onto, but can safely assume recapture and reclaiming of CFC's was one of the first (if original, yours is a CFC system). As of July 1992, venting CFC's and HCFC's became illegal in the U.S. These refrigerants must be recovered with certified equipment by certified technicians. Here in the U.S. technicians are required to pass an EPA approved certification program. Equipment such as a recovery machine and compliant cylinder, vacuum pump and charging system are required. Wouldn't it be easier to replace the evaporator?
Roy,Europe has always been a forerunner on the issue stratospheric ozone protection. I'm not an expert on all the accords they have signed onto, but can safely assume recapture and reclaiming of CFC's was one of the first (if original, yours is a CFC system). As of July 1992, venting CFC's and HCFC's became illegal in the U.S. These refrigerants must be recovered with certified equipment by certified technicians. Here in the U.S. technicians are required to pass an EPA approved certification program. Equipment such as a recovery machine and compliant cylinder, vacuum pump and charging system are required. Wouldn't it be easier to replace the evaporator?
Thanks, new system is in the Mail
Thanks everyone for the great advise. I have a new A/B supercold machine/ducts/evaporator/water cool kit ordered and on the way. My confusion with the CFC was that I didn't understand that it was a sealed system. I was worried that as I disconnected the lines I would be releasing the CFC's. From what I've been told, all I need is a wrench and not a certificed tech. So I'm going to start pulling the old system out this weekend. Bill
Thanks everyone for the great advise. I have a new A/B supercold machine/ducts/evaporator/water cool kit ordered and on the way. My confusion with the CFC was that I didn't understand that it was a sealed system. I was worried that as I disconnected the lines I would be releasing the CFC's. From what I've been told, all I need is a wrench and not a certificed tech. So I'm going to start pulling the old system out this weekend. Bill
I get by with a little help from my friends
Just bought 1993 40.5. It has been sitting awhile. Most items that need repair are for lack of use, I hope. Both refrig
Just bought 1993 40.5. It has been sitting awhile. Most items that need repair are for lack of use, I hope. Both refrig
Jim, it wasn't so hard.
Jim, I was very concerned at the begining of this thread about what to do with my refrigeration. I can say, thanks to the advise I've received here (and a few offers to fly to Greece to assist) that it was really a very simple install. The A/B SuperCold comes highly recommended and with outstanding installation instructions. I was very careful to attach messenger lines as I removed the old system and it made running wires and tubing through those dark places you just can't reach very simple. Our two week cruise last summer was miserable for refrigeration. The old unit ran continuously and would quickly drain the old batteries. With a plan to move aboard full time this coming Spring, I upgraded the batteries (I now have a 400AH bank) which didn't solve the refrigerator problem and have now installed the new A/B Supercold w/ the Water Cool Option kit. So for a bit over $1200 I have high hopes the new system will keep my beer cold and provide ice for my Martini without bankrupting the batteries and that is my goal. I will have to wait a few months for the Mediterranean waters to warm up a bit before I can say if the SuperCold and the Water Cooling Option were worth the extra expense. Bottom line, if you can afford it, I say go for it. Roy s/y "Brilliant"
Jim, I was very concerned at the begining of this thread about what to do with my refrigeration. I can say, thanks to the advise I've received here (and a few offers to fly to Greece to assist) that it was really a very simple install. The A/B SuperCold comes highly recommended and with outstanding installation instructions. I was very careful to attach messenger lines as I removed the old system and it made running wires and tubing through those dark places you just can't reach very simple. Our two week cruise last summer was miserable for refrigeration. The old unit ran continuously and would quickly drain the old batteries. With a plan to move aboard full time this coming Spring, I upgraded the batteries (I now have a 400AH bank) which didn't solve the refrigerator problem and have now installed the new A/B Supercold w/ the Water Cool Option kit. So for a bit over $1200 I have high hopes the new system will keep my beer cold and provide ice for my Martini without bankrupting the batteries and that is my goal. I will have to wait a few months for the Mediterranean waters to warm up a bit before I can say if the SuperCold and the Water Cooling Option were worth the extra expense. Bottom line, if you can afford it, I say go for it. Roy s/y "Brilliant"
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